Progress Hybrid with 8" Liner

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Berner

Berner

Feeling the Heat
Feb 1, 2012
388
Eastern, MA
I'm in the process of upgrading my current hybrid flexible no insulation liner system. With my terracotta tiles being 7.25" X 11" I'm in a tight spot. I also want the liner to be insulated and removable if need be. This limits my options to an ovalized flexible with 1/2" wrap. After calling Woodland they offer the Heavy Duty flexible that starts as a 7" round and ovalizes into 5.5" X 9". If I put 1/2" wrap around it I should have some room to put down the chimney. They also might have a rectangular liner that could fit to. Either option brings me to my question for you.

The area of a 6" pipe is 28.25 square inches. This is the optimal size that Woodstock says the PH should run on. The ovalized pipe calcs out to be 31.8. The rectangular liners I think are even more. Does anyone have experience running the PH with a larger liner than the reccomend 6"? I imagine someone somewhere has put this into an 8" flue?

Besides less draft is there any issue that could arise? I think the 1/2" insulation on the new liner would more than offset the normal 6" liner that is currently being run without insulation. Then again I've never burned with an insulated liner before.

Thoughts?
 
Berner said:
I'm in the process of upgrading my current hybrid flexible no insulation liner system. With my terracotta tiles being 7.25" X 11" I'm in a tight spot. I also want the liner to be insulated and removable if need be. This limits my options to an ovalized flexible with 1/2" wrap. After calling Woodland they offer the Heavy Duty flexible that starts as a 7" round and ovalizes into 5.5" X 9". If I put 1/2" wrap around it I should have some room to put down the chimney. They also might have a rectangular liner that could fit to. Either option brings me to my question for you.

The area of a 6" pipe is 28.25 square inches. This is the optimal size that Woodstock says the PH should run on. The ovalized pipe calcs out to be 31.8. The rectangular liners I think are even more. Does anyone have experience running the PH with a larger liner than the reccomend 6"? I imagine someone somewhere has put this into an 8" flue?

Besides less draft is there any issue that could arise? I think the 1/2" insulation on the new liner would more than offset the normal 6" liner that is currently being run without insulation. Then again I've never burned with an insulated liner before.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Why not insulate the 6 inch liner?
 
quotejso said:
Why not insulate the 6 inch liner?
Click to expand...

I tried that with my first hybrid liner and it didn't fit. Terracotta tiles are 7.25X11. Six inch inside diameter plus 1/2 wrap puts me a little over 7. It wouldn't budge going down, probably because my tiles aren't perfectly aligned or there was mortar blobs.
 
Berner said:
I tried that with my first hybrid liner and it didn't fit. Terracotta tiles are 7.25X11. Six inch inside diameter plus 1/2 wrap puts me a little over 7. It wouldn't budge going down, probably because my tiles aren't perfectly aligned or there was mortar blobs.
Click to expand...
pour in the thermix
 
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I find it hard to believe a 10% increase over the spec would make much difference. My solution for a very similar problem was to very slightly ovalize a 6" liner - but my flue is 24+ feet.
 
Berner said:
The area of a 6" pipe is 28.25 square inches. This is the optimal size that Woodstock says the PH should run on. The ovalized pipe calcs out to be 31.8.
Click to expand...
Yes but an oval will not draft as efficently as a round so it will even out for the most part.
 
bholler said:
Yes but an oval will not draft as efficently as a round so it will even out for the most part.
Click to expand...

Where would a rectangle liner rank in the mix?
 
So the latest response from woodland says a rectangle liner is reccomend over an oval liner. Not sure if it was cost related but the rectangle size they have is 4"X8.5". That specs out to 34 square inches though I would bet it will be a little less due to slightly rounded corners. My math says that is 20% less draft than the reccomended 6" round. Another con is that rectangle liners won't draft as well as my current round. On the plus side it will be insulated with 1/2 wrap.

What do you guys think? I will call Woodstock tomorrow but I am nervous that in trying to reduce my creosote buildup I might be increasing it.
 
fire_man said:
I find it hard to believe a 10% increase over the spec would make much difference. My solution for a very similar problem was to very slightly ovalize a 6" liner - but my flue is 24+ feet.
Click to expand...

How did you slightly ovalize your liner?
 
Berner said:
How did you slightly ovalize your liner?
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We ovalize any we do our selves with an ovalizer. I would not recommend it any other way. I know guys do it with a board or by stomping on it ect. But unless it is an even oval it will cause turbulence and make it harder to clean. Also heavy wall is not easy to ovalize at all.
 
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bholler said:
At the bottom square corners create turbulence and collect dirt.
Click to expand...

Their quote for the rectangle liner and components was about half the cost of my stove. Not sure why Olympia suggested rectangle but I will ask about ovalizing instead.
 
bholler said:
Olympia?
Click to expand...


Olympia Chimney Supply is the manufacturer that I am most interested in. They won't sell to the public, just shops. Decided Olympia mostly because Woodstock reccomended them. I called woodlanddirect because they sell Olympia.

Any other manufacturer or shop that you would reccomend?
 
Berner said:
Olympia Chimney Supply is the manufacturer that I am most interested in. They won't sell to the public, just shops. Decided Olympia mostly because Woodstock reccomended them. I called woodlanddirect because they sell Olympia.
Click to expand...
No we use pretty much exclusively olympia's products. But I was wondering why you said they recommended rectangle. I Know many of their sales guys and none of them would ever recommend an over sized rectangle.
 
bholler said:
No we use pretty much exclusively olympia's products. But I was wondering why you said they recommended rectangle. I Know many of their sales guys and none of them would ever recommend an over sized rectangle.
Click to expand...

Maybe my guy from Woodland is talking to someone he shouldn't be from Olympia. I will try calling Olympia myself tomorrow and cut out the middleman.
 
Berner said:
I will try calling Olympia myself tomorrow and cut out the middleman.
Click to expand...
It is the stove manufacturer that should be recommending liner sizing not the liner dealer. The guy selling you the liner does not know your stove or the specific requirements of it. Ask woodstock. And i am pretty sure olympia wont take your call. They don't even like to recommend liner types or sizing directly to pros I seriously doubt they would have done it through a middleman
 
Berner said:
How did you slightly ovalize your liner?
Click to expand...
I paid a little extra for the manufacturer to do it. I hated the idea of banging it with a brick like some folks do. The manufacturer ran it perfectly through a machine to the exact dimensions I asked. It was a light wall liner but I'm guessing a heavy wall could be done.
 
fire_man said:
I asked. It was a light wall liner but I'm guessing a heavy wall could be done.
Click to expand...
Yes with a machine it can absolutely be done. With a board or whatever it would be very hard.
 
Have you looked into those liners with tge insulation built in?
 
quotejso said:
Have you looked into those liners with tge insulation built in?
Click to expand...

What is tge insulation? All the ones that come pre-insulated that I have seen, are way too big for my 7.25"X11 terracotta tiles.
 
Berner said:
What is tge insulation? All the ones that come pre-insulated that I have seen, are way too big for my 7.25"X11 terracotta tiles.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry it was the. I have heard bholler recommend busting out the tiles. It would be way cheaper then new liner but sounds messy. Good luck I will stop making dumb suggestions now.
 
quotejso said:
Oh sorry it was the. I have heard bholler recommend busting out the tiles. It would be way cheaper then new liner but sounds messy. Good luck I will stop making dumb suggestions now.
Click to expand...
He needs a new liner his old one is damaged. If i was doing the job and the liners could be removed that is what i would do. But i think i have recommended that before
 
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