Englander pdv-25 steel wool mod.

SKOAL MAN said:

Instead of plugging the bottom holes completely, I used a couple washers with a small hole and covered the large holes under the tray. I use some hi-temp silicone to stick them to the pot. The reason I like the washers better, is instead of cutting off the air completely from the top holes, it regulates it. With the holes completely covered there is actually too much air coming up from the bottom of the pot. This works great for blowing the ash out of the pot, but you are also blowing the pellets out before they are completely burnt! You will also notice that your flame is extremely tall, and your exhaust is a lot hotter. The side holes help to concentrate the burn, in the center of the stove, allowing the stove to absorb the heat, and the pellets to burn completely. With them closed off completely, you are sending a lot of that heat, strait up the chimney! This is what I have found, anyway.

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I'm not saying this may be the case, but im not convinced this is sending more hot air out of the exhaust. I look at it this way. The stove is exhausting the same amount of air whether you plug side holes or not. Plugging the holes just means that you are forcing the air to take a different path. Yes the exhaust air will be hotter but thats because more of the pellets are getting burned completely, instead of just piling up as a giant mess in the burn pot. While some of this hotter air is wasted through exhaust, some of it is also absorbed by the stove and radiated while some is picked up by the heat exchanger and blown into the room. With the holes unplugged, and some pellets not completely burned, even more heat is lost because you scoop the pot and throw that heat away (or in your garden or use it for traction on ice etc).

I do notice the flame is extremely tall, I am seeing hotter temps. I am heating the house with less fuel and i am also seeing a cleaner burnpot and no unburned pellets. What i am no longer seeing is clinkers.

MadMax31 said:

Now I want to try... Not for heat output, but cleaner burn pot. After a day of idling at 1-3 my pot is full of fluffy ash.

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Madmax, give it a shot. The burn pot will not be empty - our models dont work like that. It still needs scooping periodically but the ash is lighter, fluffier and on the higher settings you wont see piles of glowing half burned pellets. When the ash gets heavy it blocks the air from coming through the pellets in favor of the side holes.

Just a side thought - I wonder if this tinkers with the stove vacuum sensing capability. with the side holes blocked, and a full pot, i would imagine more of a vacuum is being pulled by the combustion blower. I wonder if the stove would now be less sensitive to shutdowns due to gasket leaks etc...
all the more reason to keep them in good shape i guess.

doghouse said:

The question was for the bigger picture.

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Do a little digging and use the search button. There are many old threads that discuss this and some with mike involved.

Ran my stove from 6:00pm to 6:00am on 7 for heat, in C mode, and I'm happy with the result. The amount of lava burn is significantly reduced and my glass is clean. Instead of scooping half burned pellets out of the pot this morning, I moved fluffy ash out to make some more room for more pellets. Typically after that long of a burn on that high of a setting, I wouldn't be able to see through the glass, which was not the case. So, my thoughts are that this is beneficial to me since I'm not scooping out unburned pellets and I can still see my fire. I like it and I'm glad I did it.

This did not make my stove become maintenance free, so I hope others aren't expecting that from this quick modification. It did reduce the amount of maintenance for me in regards to cleaning glass and I should be able to only have to scrape my pot 2-3 times in 24 hours instead of 3-5. A lot obviously has to do with pellets too. My overnight test was with the same pellets I've been burning all winter.

doghouse said:

What size hole on the washer?

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I never really measured it. I would say that the hole is about 1/4".

I wonder if more flyash will accumulate in the exhaust?

Michael6268 said:

I wonder if more flyash will accumulate in the exhaust?

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I'll post the results of that this sunday. I've been running with the holes plugged since my last full cleaning (last sunday). I clean my stove fully every sunday.

Cedarjunki said:

Do a little digging and use the search button. There are many old threads that discuss this and some with mike involved.

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Thanks.

Just put the caps in and firing the stove up.. Here goes nothing

Just did another quick cleaning and checked the venting. Not to bad. Very pleased with the results. Pulled the plugs from bottom and switched them to above the burn plate. We'll see how this does.

I will say huge difference in the flame... Very tall.. And pellets seem to be burning all they way

does the PDV model have larger holes both below and above the burn plate? i have the pdvc which only has holes below it. My brother had the pdv which i repair for him when it breaks but i dont remember the exact burn pot.

Just moved the plugs back down to below the burn plate. I think I like it better that way. Although I think above or below is better than not plugged.

Now you guys need to throw some crappy pellets in and see if it helps any.

Dr.Faustus said:

does the PDV model have larger holes both below and above the burn plate? i have the pdvc which only has holes below it. My brother had the pdv which i repair for him when it breaks but i dont remember the exact burn pot.

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The PDV has two round holes above the wear plate, in addition to the six 1/8" holes. There are also two square openings, under the wear plate.

i did my cleaning today instead of sunday so i can beat the snow. for me it will only be a few inches but still easier. I did not find a significant amount of ash in the vent pipe. there was a bit more, but i've been running the stove higher than i have in the past few weeks because its been colder. My foil tape finally gave out. I installed the hillman plugs. 3/4" fit perfectly in the pdvc. i used a little hi temp sealant on them. I am also testing something else... my burn plate has 2 larger half circle shaped holes in the burn plate right near the auger. I noticed that most of the air was coming through these now instead of the smaller holes throughout the burn plate. I have some foil tape over those larger holes as a test. so far fire looks more even. see picture...

During cleaning i did not see any damage or unusual wear anywhere on the stove. I also noticed that there was no carbon build up on the lip of the lower auger tube.

I had that stove years ago. I actually welded the holes shut because I had a crappy burn and it seemed like a lot of ash fell through those holes and accumulated underneath. I think you'll find you get a lot of carbon buildup in the auger tube with those holes blocked. I ended up drilling them out.

Michael6268 said:

I think you'll find you get a lot of carbon buildup in the auger tube with those holes blocked

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I tend to agree.

well no harm in testing. i can always peel off the foil tape.

"Nookem`s" ( OP ) problem was unburned pellets being pushed out of the burnpot. That issue should have been remedied first and not by plugging factory designed holes , but by adjustment to the settings.
I don`t really have a problem with experimenting and trying different things or even plugging the holes if it makes the stove burn better but isn`t it obvious the stove settings were incorrect to begin with? .

MCPO said:

"Nookem`s" ( OP ) problem was unburned pellets being pushed out of the burnpot. That issue should have been remedied first and not by plugging factory designed holes , but by adjustment to the settings.
I don`t really have a problem with experimenting and trying different things or even plugging the holes if it makes the stove burn better but isn`t it obvious the stove settings were incorrect to begin with? .

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That may very well be, but in my experience with these stoves, they are prone to have this no matter what feed settings you run on. This stove doesnt blow out or drop the ash into a bin. It uses the auger to push new pellets into the pot and in theory push out the ash. This doesnt work very well so when the ash builds up (which it can quickly on higher settings) it is easier for the air to come out of the side holes vs through the pellets.

Of course the first answer to burn problems is 1. clean your stove 2. tweak the settings 3. make sure your venting is proper and adequate. once you know everything is ok and your gaskets are good etc then try this. From his first post, he wasnt getting unburned pellets pushed out of the burnpot. He was getting a giant mass of smoldering pellets and clinkers. Also, luckily nobody gave him advice to modify his stove. He had already done so at the point of posting. I'd actually never would have thought of this until I saw it here. Me being the curious type decided to test it out.

One could increase the airflow - but on the higher settings there is no real way to do this. one can also limit the feed by either turning down the feed settings or closing the restrictor in the hopper - but then what you've done is reduce your stove to burning on low settings. If you set the stove on 9/9 but your restrictor plate is closed then you arent really getting the heat from 9/9.

the funny thing about all this is somewhere there is some sales analysis team at lowes trying to figure out the sudden popularity of hillman plugs.

MCPO said:

"Nookem`s" ( OP ) problem was unburned pellets being pushed out of the burnpot.

He wasnt asking for advice as how to cure the unburnt pellet problem. In fact, he must have done his homework and read other threads that discuss this same issue.

That issue should have been remedied first and not by plugging factory designed holes , but by adjustment to the settings.

He did remedy it by plugging a couple holes to cause more air to flow thru the pellets instead of around them.
These stoves have no adjustment on any level above setting 2.

I don`t really have a problem with experimenting and trying different things or even plugging the holes if it makes the stove burn better but isn`t it obvious the stove settings were incorrect to begin with? .

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This is very common with these stoves. Did you read the thread? This was all said previously.

Update: well my foil tape idea from my previous post worked great, but it didnt last long. This morning when i shut down to check the burnpot and check for any increase in carbon deposits, the foil was crispy. I dont think its designed for that high of a heat. so now i have to figure out some other way to close them. Learning to weld has been on my to do list for a while, but not in the middle of winter. i think in the spring I might actually pick up a small mig welder and give it a go. I could do so much more if i had this capability.

for now i'll have to resort to just putting 2 bolts though to reduce the airflow in that spot.

btw there was no additional carbon deposits. In fact there wasnt any at all ever since i've plugged the 2 holes under the burn plate.

OK guys I'm going to add to the conversation. I have the Hillman plugs in my pdv and I do notice more heat with a higher flame. But, I still have a molten mass of clinkers and unburned pellets. Clean stove, setting on C and running on feed 6 fan on 8. Am I missing something or doing something wrong.