Harman Almost Smothered The Flame On Start-Up of Constant Burn #7

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

Orson_Yancey said:
Hi Tom Ray, After having read many of the posts, in my opinion, probably the most likely cause of the problem is
ash on the ESP, causing it not to read as high as heat as it should. My solution for now is to start the stove on
constant burn #1 until I get a big fire, then adjust upwards.

ok....[It's Tonyray but no harm/no foul.....

I know some people use a low feed rate on room/auto like # 2, ESPECIALLY if using long pellets to get started but that just masks your issue which hopefully is
a dirty ESP...

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

Tonyray said:
ok....[It's Tonyray but no harm/no foul.....

I know some people use a low feed rate on room/auto like # 2, ESPECIALLY if using long pellets to get started but that just masks your issue which hopefully is
a dirty ESP...

Snowing now, I can't see the house across the street ! We just went under a Blizzard Warning.

My thought is the igniter compartment dirty, maybe dirty esp. He did start up at heat level 7 in Constant burn, if it had a delayed start which it sounds like it did, then senses fire and kept feeding normally, well you get what he got LOL ! That said I've never started my stove in that mode at that heat level. I generally start up where I left off. Right now I have the dial set at about 73 deg in Room temp. If I shut the stove down, cleaned or what ever, I'd start it right back up again . Running in Stove Temp ( so called Constant Burn) I about never run it over level 4. I would only have it in that mode when I didn't want a ton of heat but wanted it steady.

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

alternativeheat said:
Snowing now, I can't see the house across the street ! We just went under a Blizzard Warning.

My thought is the igniter compartment dirty, maybe dirty esp. He did start up at heat level 7 in Constant burn, if it had a delayed start which it sounds like it did, then senses fire and kept feeding normally, well you get what he got LOL ! That said I've never started my stove in that mode at that heat level. I generally start up where I left off. Right now I have the dial set at about 73 deg in Room temp. If I shut the stove down, cleaned or what ever, I'd start it right back up again . Running in Stove Temp ( so called Constant Burn) I about never run it over level 4. I would only have it in that mode when I didn't want a ton of heat but wanted it steady.

yes.. I always start up in room/auto and NEVER at that high level #7... usually around #4 give or take or as u said, where ya left off..

within the last hour, I shut the stove down, brushed all the ash in the compartment into the ash pan. scraped the burnpot and the heat exchanger..
[ Noticed some different looking[shaped?] carbon deposits since burning these Lignetics. lot was on the side walls like big bubbles..
also removed the igniter compartment door and fingered out the dry ash onto a paper plate... lot's of dry sandy ash in there,,,,seems like always.
I assume the more you pull ash down from the burnpot into the ash pan, the more ash drops thru the burnpot holes and into the igniter compartment because it fills fast. I have read where some people claim that there igniter compartment has hardly any ash and I cannot fathom how they scrape the ash down without it dropping into the burnpot holes unless burning some great low to zilch ash like Doug firs....

newf lover · Jan 23, 2016

Tonyray said:
yes.. I always start up in room/auto and NEVER at that high level #7... usually around #4 give or take or as u said, where ya left off..

within the last hour, I shut the stove down, brushed all the ash in the compartment into the ash pan. scraped the burnpot and the heat exchanger..
[ Noticed some different looking[shaped?] carbon deposits since burning these Lignetics. lot was on the side walls like big bubbles..
also removed the igniter compartment door and fingered out the dry ash onto a paper plate... lot's of dry sandy ash in there,,,,seems like always.
I assume the more you pull ash down from the burnpot into the ash pan, the more ash drops thru the burnpot holes and into the igniter compartment because it fills fast. I have read where some people claim that there igniter compartment has hardly any ash and I cannot fathom how they scrape the ash down without it dropping into the burnpot holes unless burning some great low to zilch ash like Doug firs....

Starting these stoves shouldn't take much thinking. Like Tonyray said, #4 or there about in room/auto and let it do it's thing. Either the esp is dirty as several people have pointed out, or maybe the vent is a little blocked with ash, although that's less likely. I forgot to clean the screen on my outside vent and this resulted in overfilling with pellets that spilled over to the ash bin and a really floppy flame.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

He cleaned in that igniter compartment last 20+ bags ago. Unless he has really super low ash pellets you can be pretty sure there is a fair amount of ash in that compartment. In fact soon it will be altering the flame pattern I bet.

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

only way to keep ash out of that compartment is to shut down and vacuum the burnpot each time but that would comprise every day just to clear the ash from the burnpot without brushing it OVER the pot holes..
even at my worst I was never that OCD... !!!

bogieb · Jan 23, 2016

Tonyray said:
I pull the ash pan out, and hold a Paper plate in one hand and fingerout the dry ash letting it fall onto the paper plate..
[my lazy way of not having to vacuum it off the stove floor every time.]

Tonyray said:
can also put a couple sheets of newspaper on the stove floor and let it fall there also.

Or you could leave the ash pan in while you are cleaning out the igniter area. Just a thought . . .

. Even if I didn't do that (I forgot or something), the floor always has such a build up that I have to get the ash scoop and clean it up anyway, so not a big deal. Don't know why Harman can't make the pan a bit longer so that it actually goes past the edge of both shelves so ash doesn't go everywhere. I never had that issue with the Hastings - the one thing it excelled at compared to either the P61 or P43.

bogieb · Jan 23, 2016

alternativeheat said:
He cleaned in that igniter compartment last 20+ bags ago. Unless he has really super low ash pellets you can be pretty sure there is a fair amount of ash in that compartment. In fact soon it will be altering the flame pattern I bet.

Hu, my experience is that even with the ashy stuff I normally run that not much goes in there. I clean it every 3-4 weeks and certainly go thru at least a bag a day in each stove, but don't pull out much at all. Don't have any issue with it changing the burn pattern either.

However, the really ashy stuff also seems to be really course stuff too (gritty - almost pebbly even), so maybe it doesn't fall in as much as a lighter/finer ash would. I never would have thought about ash in the igniter area altering the burn pattern - learn something new all the time here.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

bogieb said:
. Don't know why Harman can't make the pan a bit longer so that it actually goes past the edge of both shelves so ash doesn't go everywhere. I never had that issue with the Hastings - the one thing it excelled at compared to either the P61 or P43.

You just hit on one of my peeves too, some how some way you would think they could cover that. But I vacuum the edge by the door after I open it and slide the ash pan out to get in that igniter compartment. now the vac is there anyway, no paper plates, just scoop the ash onto the floor of the stove and vac it up. Done deal, close it all up. Irritating or not, it really only takes maybe 4 minutes if you think about it. my ash vac is tucked behind my chair next to the stove ready to go 24/7, it's just where it landed after the first cleaning and the home stuck.

bogieb · Jan 23, 2016

alternativeheat said:
You just hit on one of my peeves too, some how some way you would think they could cover that. But I vacuum the edge by the door after I open it and slide the ash pan out to get in that igniter compartment. now the vac is there anyway, no paper plates, just scoop the ash onto the floor of the stove and vac it up. Done deal, close it all up. Irritating or not, it really only takes maybe 4 minutes if you think about it. my ash vac is tucked behind my chair next to the stove ready to go 24/7, it's just where it landed after the first cleaning and the home stuck.

Oh, I remove the cover and clean the igniter area from the top door, not underneath. Never even thought about going from underneath. Probably because I have to wear cheaters and I can't see up since it is looking over them. Not that I can see it going from the top, but it is easy to go by feel and I'm not all hunched over to do it.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

bogieb said:
Hu, my experience is that even with the ashy stuff I normally run that not much goes in there. I clean it every 3-4 weeks and certainly go thru at least a bag a day in each stove, but don't pull out much at all. Don't have any issue with it changing the burn pattern either.

However, the really ashy stuff also seems to be really course stuff too (gritty - almost pebbly even), so maybe it doesn't fall in as much as a lighter/finer ash would. I never would have thought about ash in the igniter area altering the burn pattern - learn something new all the time here.

I got that altered pattern ( flame leaned forward a bit, sluggish start up and no amount of scraping the pot changed that) when I tried to see how long I could go without cleaning in there, deliberately. And see what would happen. Well that's what happened LOL. My one only misfire was on the same test. It was out around week 5 or 6 someplace. I wanted to know, now I know ! Now I clean it every couple of weeks, I don't even count bags really, not accurately anyway. Something I found is you have to count the ash that falls out when you pull off the cover, not just what you scoop out.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

bogieb said:
Oh, I remove the cover and clean the igniter area from the top door, not underneath. Never even thought about going from underneath. Probably because I have to wear cheaters and I can't see up since it is looking over them. Not that I can see it going from the top, but it is easy to go by feel and I'm not all hunched over to do it.

Thought of that many times, nice to be a woman, probably with slim flexible hands LOL. It just seems like a convoluted angle with my going on 66 yo paws ! Are you double jointed or something ?

bogieb · Jan 23, 2016

Yeah, small hands - not awkward at all for me. On my knees, back straight, elbows straight, angle just works for me. The P43 is more cramped than the P61, but still not bad for me - thinking of those with large hands, yep, I can see how that would be a pain.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

bogieb said:
Yeah, small hands - not awkward at all for me. On my knees, back straight, elbows straight, angle just works for me. The P43 is more cramped than the P61, but still not bad for me - thinking of those with large hands, yep, I can see how that would be a pain.

On my knees is really the first problem, especially now since the knee surgery, not ready for on my knees just yet. So now that means on one knee, the other bent, long arms, tall . Well things don't line up. I could probably do it but through the ash pan door, I just lay on the floor and it's right there.

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

bogieb said:
Or you could leave the ash pan in while you are cleaning out the igniter area. Just a thought . . . . Even if I didn't do that (I forgot or something), the floor always has such a build up that I have to get the ash scoop and clean it up anyway, so not a big deal. Don't know why Harman can't make the pan a bit longer so that it actually goes past the edge of both shelves so ash doesn't go everywhere. I never had that issue with the Hastings - the one thing it excelled at compared to either the P61 or P43.

I tried to clean the igniter compartment with the ash pan still in..
couldn't do it.. shelve get's in the way.. no way to move my hand in there let alone get my Index finger ALL THE WAY up on both sides of the compartment. kinda hard to even loosen the compartment thumb screws for that angle.

TheMightyMoe · Jan 23, 2016

If your ESP isn't dirty.

This sounds like delayed ignition, I Cleaned/OHMed out my old igniter seemed fine, put it back in same problem of late ignition / unburned pellets falling into ash can / burn pot full to edge.

Replaced igniter, problem solved.

I clean my igniter once a year, not much in their usually. I burn 5-6 tons. Igniter lasted 3 years, which seems fair, heating elements go bad.

alternativeheat · Jan 23, 2016

Tonyray said:
I tried to clean the igniter compartment with the ash pan still in..
couldn't do it.. shelve get's in the way.. no way to move my hand in there let alone get my Index finger ALL THE WAY up on both sides of the compartment. kinda hard to even loosen the compartment thumb screws for that angle.

Hmmm, last week when I cleaned in there I had to get pliers to get the thumb screws loose. First time I recall that happening. No biggy, just sayin.
I got a good palm full of ash from there not including the droppings from when I opened it. I must be burning some real crud pellets if others don't find much in there LOL

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

alternativeheat said:
Hmmm, last week when I cleaned in there I had to get pliers to get the thumb screws loose. First time I recall that happening. No biggy, just sayin.
I got a good palm full of ash from there not including the droppings from when I opened it. I must be burning some real crud pellets if others don't find much in there LOL

I burn good pellets and still get lot of dry ash in there...it's gotta fall in there when you use a scrapper and Pull the ash down to the burnpot and it falls into the holes.

TheMightyMoe · Jan 23, 2016

Well under the igniter area there is always a little build-up of small stuff, on the igniter itself, not so much.

Tonyray · Jan 23, 2016

TheMightyMoe said:
Well under the igniter area there is always a little build-up of small stuff, on the igniter itself, not so much.

That's where we are talking about..under the igniter is the" igniter compartment."

alternativeheat · Jan 24, 2016

I never have build up on the igniter itself because I always bang on the burn pot with my scraper like the videos from Harman shows how to do. I've never cleaned my igniter, 3rd year running this stove, the igniter has never been touched, removed, blown on etc.... but I clean that compartment about every two weeks. I scrape the pot two to three times per day depending on the pellets I'm using.

bogieb · Jan 24, 2016

Tonyray said:
I tried to clean the igniter compartment with the ash pan still in..
couldn't do it.. shelve get's in the way.. no way to move my hand in there let alone get my Index finger ALL THE WAY up on both sides of the compartment. kinda hard to even loosen the compartment thumb screws for that angle.

Whereas I can get my fingers all the way into the back where the air inlet is. And I got short fingers. I'm usually disgusted with my long hands (reaching the clutch or brake on the bike is uncomfortable because I have to overstretch). Power tools are not "ergo" for me and sometimes I have to find alternate means of reaching both the trigger and the safety. Things that go "boom" are usually a lesson in compromise between good grip position and getting it to go boom - and when it is a DA or has a heavy pull designed in, it is even more fun (slide release, yea, I only buy boom sticks that I can hit that sucker - shortens the list of possibilities).

Seems in the case of cleaning the igniter chamber, I've got an advantage though.

alternativeheat · Jan 24, 2016

bogieb said:
Whereas I can get my fingers all the way into the back where the air inlet is. And I got short fingers. I'm usually disgusted with my long hands (reaching the clutch or brake on the bike is uncomfortable because I have to overstretch). Power tools are not "ergo" for me and sometimes I have to find alternate means of reaching both the trigger and the safety. Things that go "boom" are usually a lesson in compromise between good grip position and getting it to go boom - and when it is a DA or has a heavy pull designed in, it is even more fun (slide release, yea, I only buy boom sticks that I can hit that sucker - shortens the list of possibilities).

Seems in the case of cleaning the igniter chamber, I've got an advantage though.

OT I know but: You gotta buy older guns with reworked triggers Bogie. All new guns are heavy now, at least here in Ma.

DAKSY · Jan 24, 2016

Been sitting here reading this as I wait for the P61A to cool down.
It's been running constantly - Stove Temp 4-ish; Feed rate 4-ish - during this cold spell,
two bags a day, scraping the burn pot every other bag or so, & banging the BP with the
Harman tool at each scraping. Ash pan is nearly full & will be after I brush the firebox.
The ONLY time I've had uneven/incomplete burning is when the fines box is jammed full.
Nobody has even mentioned cleaning this feature throughout this entire post.
I will pull the rear shroud & clean mine in the next half-hour or so,
& clear out what ever sawdust has accumulated in there...
I've burned close to a ton since the last complete clean on 1 Jan so I knw she's ready.

alternativeheat · Jan 24, 2016

DAKSY said:
Been sitting here reading this as I wait for the P61A to cool down.
It's been running constantly - Stove Temp 4-ish; Feed rate 4-ish - during this cold spell,
two bags a day, scraping the burn pot every other bag or so, & banging the BP with the
Harman tool at each scraping. Ash pan is nearly full & will be after I brush the firebox.
The ONLY time I've had uneven/incomplete burning is when the fines box is jammed full.
Nobody has even mentioned cleaning this feature throughout this entire post.
I will pull the rear shroud & clean mine in the next half-hour or so,
& clear out what ever sawdust has accumulated in there...
I've burned close to a ton since the last complete clean on 1 Jan so I knw she's ready.

Good point, I just recently cleaned the fines box as well and surprisingly the stove seemed to be producing more heat for that little effort. But this particular time it was stuffed. Had no start up issue though.

Harman Almost Smothered The Flame On Start-Up of Constant Burn #7

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