Blaze King Questions???

embers aplenty · Jan 30, 2016

Hi Folks, I haven't posted in a while but I have been burning 24 7 none the less. I am planning on adding a 675 square ft. addidition to my older 800 square ft. home in the near future. My Quadrafire Yosemite has did me well and still does but I figure it will nearly be a bit on the small side once my house gets bigger.

I've always thought if I bought another stove I would like to get a Blaze King. The new Ashford 30 would really suit my fancy which would retain nearly the same look as my little Quad. The only thing that turns me off of with a Blaze King is no rear vent. I have a nice Magnaflex liner with a custom block off plate which I got from the Heat Element from this forum which works really well in my ole masonary chimney.

The 30 hour burns in a BK Ashford would be great. Will Blaze King ever have a rear vent option?? Probably not?

What other stoves would be a good option for me with a rear vent. My house will be right at 1500 square ft. I would probably want at least a 2.5 cu. ft. fire box. I know I could install a new Class A chimmney but I just hate to. I'd like to use what I have plus with the new addition it will allow us to be somewhat back away from the stove which will be better. Any helpfull comments are welcomed. Thanks A Bunch!

bioman · Jan 30, 2016

I have an Ideal Steel from woodstock that we like, it can be rear vent also. we heat 2400 sf.

rdust · Jan 30, 2016

In need of a rear venting cat stove, I think Woodstock is your next stop.

tarzan · Jan 30, 2016

I'd give the Ideal Steel a look. Just my opinion but your probably not going to heat yourself out of the house with a hybrid unless you choose too. Considering that, I would be looking for something closer to the 3 cubic foot range in either cat or hybrid. Just a bigger fuel tank.

OhioBurner© · Jan 30, 2016

Still though, if only 1500 sqft and insulated well and tight, and down in Tennessee, probably don't need a huge stove. The Woodstock Ideal Steel will rear vent, and idle fairly low, but maybe not quite as low as a BK. Also the new Woodstock hybrid is a tad smaller, perhaps a better size for you if you like the look, you may want to follow Flamesteads beta test post.

Here is my Ideal Steel rear vented to chimney liner. I made a diy insulated block off plate, not sure if it really mattered in my case though.

Woodstock also makes some smaller soapstone cat stoves, not too familiar with them myself though.

Highbeam · Jan 30, 2016

OhioBurner© said:
Still though, if only 1500 sqft and insulated well and tight, and down in Tennessee, probably don't need a huge stove. The Woodstock Ideal Steel will rear vent, and idle fairly low, but maybe not quite as low as a BK. Also the new Woodstock hybrid is a tad smaller, perhaps a better size for you if you like the look, you may want to follow Flamesteads beta test post.

Here is my Ideal Steel rear vented to chimney liner. I made a diy insulated block off plate, not sure if it really mattered in my case though.
View attachment 173541

Woodstock also makes some smaller soapstone cat stoves, not too familiar with them myself though.

There's no maybe about it. The bk burns twice to three times as long with a smaller firebox and the same efficiency. This means the bk will burn at half to a third of the output of that ideal steel.

If you need rear vent then you need Woodstock. Before looking at those hybrid models I would look at the fireview. It is a much simpler cat stove with very good burntime.

OhioBurner© · Jan 30, 2016

Highbeam said:
There's no maybe about it. The bk burns twice to three times as long with a smaller firebox and the same efficiency. This means the bk will burn at half to a third of the output of that ideal steel.

I didn't mean to imply that it was in question that it would idle lower, that is just the way I talk apparently. I call BS on 3x though, especially 'without question', but I have never used a BK so I can't really say for sure like you seem too. That'd be 72+ hours for cordwood. On compressed wood bricks I'm thinking the IS will go 32 hrs plus. I got a good load of Ecobricks going now, but not fully packed. Closing in on 23 hours right now and I'd guess there is easily 12 hrs+ left in the load, we'll see tonight though I might have to forgo the end of the test and reload it if I want to go to bed at a normal hour.

tarzan · Jan 30, 2016

OhioBurner© said:
I didn't mean to imply that it was in question that it would idle lower, that is just the way I talk apparently. I call BS on 3x though, especially 'without question', but I have never used a BK so I can't really say for sure like you seem too. That'd be 72+ hours for cordwood. On compressed wood bricks I'm thinking the IS will go 32 hrs plus. I got a good load of Ecobricks going now, but not fully packed. Closing in on 23 hours right now and I'd guess there is easily 12 hrs+ left in the load, we'll see tonight though I might have to forgo the end of the test and reload it if I want to go to bed at a normal hour.

If the ideal steel can idle down to a 24 hour burn I can't see how it could possibly be too big for the task. 1500 square feet wth 800 of that being an older home doesn't sound like a misfit for that stove. Eastern Tennessee see's some weather unlike most of the south.

Woody Stover · Jan 30, 2016

OhioBurner© said:
only 1500 sqft and insulated well and tight, and down in Tennessee, probably don't need a huge stove.

tarzan said:
Eastern Tennessee see's some weather unlike most of the south.

Yep, how much heat you're gonna need depends on multiple factors. Do you have backup heat, or totally rely on the stove? If you are at elevation in eastern TN, it might be cooler than around Nashville, say? I'm assuming the new addition will be adequately insulated and sealed, but how about the original house? Will the total 1500 sq.ft. be an open layout, where heat can move freely? Will most of your time be spent in the stove room? If the house will be pretty tight and will retain heat well, I might be tempted to run a Woodstock Keystone in there. They rate it at 1300 sq.ft. but their ratings are very conservative. Its output is not too far below the Fireview. Even though the box isn't big, it will burn long on lower air settings, 10 hrs. easy. I see your Yosemite has a grated ash system. Not sure how well it's designed, but did you like that feature? The Keystone has a great grated system. I like the big window, too. You can see the combustor glowing from the couch.

The Fireview and Keystone breathe very easily on shorter stacks, which you may have there. They are both easy-to-run stoves.
Also, what is the lintel height in your fireplace? Looks like the rear-exit flue height of the Yosemite is about the same as the Keystone/Fireview. The new Woodstock AS needs a little more height.

embers aplenty · Jan 30, 2016

Thanks for the replys. Winters for the most, aren't too bad here in dear ole Gatlinburg, TN. I think we've probably seen the worst of it. It made it down into the teens a few times. But mostly high 20's and low 30's are normal cold nights. And yes I plan to have an open floor plan and will insulate good.

My Quad nearly runs me out at times and will do pretty good on long burns. Sometimes if it's real cold and if I get up to go to the bathroom in the night I will reload but don't really have to. When I first got it, I used the ash pan a few times but let it fill up and and never looked back. I normally just scoop out about a dust pan full when coming in from work in the evening.

I just noticed that Quadrafire just removed the Yosemite from their website. Boo hooey. I guess they finally sold all the ones they had left. I think the Explorer I, II, and III replaced the Yosemite, Cumberland Gap, and the Isle Royale.

My fireplace max height is 25". So the ID Steel Woodstock would be taller then that. I do like the looks of it. I've heated solely with wood for near 25 years, the first 20 years with a Mama Bear Fisher. My house has baseboard heat and wall heaters but the breakers have been switched off ever since I can remember. I do plan to install a new hvac system when doing the addition so I would be able to supplement with a heat pump if need be. I think I will try the Quad the first winter after the new addition and see how things go. Quad says the Yose will heat from 800 to 2200 square ft. depending on climate. 2200 naaah, 1500, maybe. Ya never know there may be some other steeds in production by then with low rear vent heights. Can You Say Blaze King Rear Vent??

Highbeam · Jan 31, 2016

OhioBurner© said:
I didn't mean to imply that it was in question that it would idle lower, that is just the way I talk apparently. I call BS on 3x though, especially 'without question', but I have never used a BK so I can't really say for sure like you seem too. That'd be 72+ hours for cordwood. On compressed wood bricks I'm thinking the IS will go 32 hrs plus. I got a good load of Ecobricks going now, but not fully packed. Closing in on 23 hours right now and I'd guess there is easily 12 hrs+ left in the load, we'll see tonight though I might have to forgo the end of the test and reload it if I want to go to bed at a normal hour.

I trust the manufacturer more than biased individuals, and Woodstock rates the IS stove to burn only 10-14 hours. That is only a half to a third as long as the smaller princess at 30. Math so simple, even a Woodstock owner can do it.

It's a mail order stove, extremely rare in the real world. If you think Woodstock's spec is bogus then maybe you should ask them to change it.

quotejso · Jan 31, 2016

Highbeam said:
I trust the manufacturer more than biased individuals, and Woodstock rates the IS stove to burn only 10-14 hours. That is only a half to a third as long as the smaller princess at 30. Math so simple, even a Woodstock owner can do it.

It's a mail order stove, extremely rare in the real world. If you think Woodstock's spec is bogus then maybe you should ask them to change it.

You trust manufacturers? Seriously how much heat can be had burning on low for 20 hours. I just know that my progress can elevate my room up 10 degrees in an hour when it is 10 degrees out and my walls are two feet of stone and the house leaks air like no tomorrow.

rdust · Jan 31, 2016

quotejso said:
You trust manufacturers? Seriously how much heat can be had burning on low for 20 hours. I just know that my progress can elevate my room up 10 degrees in an hour when it is 10 degrees out and my walls are two feet of stone and the house leaks air like no tomorrow.

How often do you need to raise room temps 10 degrees in a hour? Burning 24/7 this should be a non issue unless it's a stove in a hunting cabin/cottage type building.

JA600L · Jan 31, 2016

embers aplenty said:
Thanks for the replys. Winters for the most, aren't too bad here in dear ole Gatlinburg, TN. I think we've probably seen the worst of it. It made it down into the teens a few times. But mostly high 20's and low 30's are normal cold nights. And yes I plan to have an open floor plan and will insulate good.

My Quad nearly runs me out at times and will do pretty good on long burns. Sometimes if it's real cold and if I get up to go to the bathroom in the night I will reload but don't really have to. When I first got it, I used the ash pan a few times but let it fill up and and never looked back. I normally just scoop out about a dust pan full when coming in from work in the evening.

I just noticed that Quadrafire just removed the Yosemite from their website. Boo hooey. I guess they finally sold all the ones they had left. I think the Explorer I, II, and III replaced the Yosemite, Cumberland Gap, and the Isle Royale.

My fireplace max height is 25". So the ID Steel Woodstock would be taller then that. I do like the looks of it. I've heated solely with wood for near 25 years, the first 20 years with a Mama Bear Fisher. My house has baseboard heat and wall heaters but the breakers have been switched off ever since I can remember. I do plan to install a new hvac system when doing the addition so I would be able to supplement with a heat pump if need be. I think I will try the Quad the first winter after the new addition and see how things go. Quad says the Yose will heat from 800 to 2200 square ft. depending on climate. 2200 naaah, 1500, maybe. Ya never know there may be some other steeds in production by then with low rear vent heights. Can You Say Blaze King Rear Vent??

I have a Quadra-Fire 4300 act and an Ideal Steel Hybrid. The Quad and the hybrid are two totally different animals. The Quadra-Fire with the air fully closed will run me out of the room. The Ideal Steel can truly run low and slow and provide a softer heat. When it is very cold out the Ideal Steel wakes up and majorly outdoes the Quad though. It's not even close to a competition. The Ideal Steel is better on high and low. Also, the Ideal Steel can run 24 + hours. Woodstock is very conservative on their burn time numbers. Look on the Internet and other forums. There are lots of documented 24+ hour burns.

I mean nothing bad towards the Quad though. It is a great stove. They due tend to burn hot.

quotejso · Jan 31, 2016

rdust said:
How often do you need to raise room temps 10 degrees in a hour? Burning 24/7 this should be a non issue unless it's a stove in a hunting cabin/cottage type building.

When you wake up and its 63 degrees.

rdust · Jan 31, 2016

quotejso said:
When you wake up and its 63 degrees.

If the stove burned longer this wouldn't be needed. An upgrade to the bigger/longer burning Ideal Steel may be a solution.

JA600L · Jan 31, 2016

You will have to find it at another spot on the Internet, but somebody just did a 41 hour burn in an Ideal Steel. They have a graph of the temperatures through the entire burn.

OhioBurner© · Jan 31, 2016

Highbeam said:
I trust the manufacturer more than biased individuals, and Woodstock rates the IS stove to burn only 10-14 hours. That is only a half to a third as long as the smaller princess at 30. Math so simple, even a Woodstock owner can do it.

It's a mail order stove, extremely rare in the real world. If you think Woodstock's spec is bogus then maybe you should ask them to change it.

I've done the math, and just finished a long burn test thatwent 40+ hours. Time to admit that BK has competition in the long burn department. BK still makes it easier with the thermostat of course.

The 14 hour rating... I did not ask Woodstock what that rating was for, did you? Perhaps that is to heat the rated size home (2200sqft) on a January day in New Hampshire. I do not know, and it doesn't matter to me if they change it or not. I would however say that about 14 hours sounds about right for a regular ol secondary burn.

I may try to put a flue damper in to see if it can even go longer, plus I could fit a bit more fuel in it still. But after you hit 40 some hours I'm not too worried a few hours give or take! That is with compressed sawdust bricks, I'm not sure of its capability with cordwood yet, but likely much less than the 3 day burn I just did.

OhioBurner© · Jan 31, 2016

rdust said:
How often do you need to raise room temps 10 degrees in a hour? Burning 24/7 this should be a non issue unless it's a stove in a hunting cabin/cottage type building.

Your probably right... the only reason I even mentioned it is because even on my long burns I have done, every one of them so far has seen the cat hit 1200F and stovetop 700. Even if it was only for a couple or few hours it is still a lot of heat. This may not even be a concern... I am still a newbie and learning to control the stove. It sure would be easier with BK's auto-damper! But I think after a couple more long burns I'll better get the hang of it.

JA600L said:
You will have to find it at another spot on the Internet, but somebody just did a 41 hour burn in an Ideal Steel. They have a graph of the temperatures through the entire burn.

Wow your quick JA, that was only posted minutes before your mentioned it!

I plan on doing another similar test and posting here on hearth, I fiddled with stuff to much with that one, I'd like a more even test with minimum amount of air changes, not I have the magnet somewhat figured out how much of the secondary air hole to cover, either that or get a key damper to slow down my strong draft.

quotejso · Jan 31, 2016

rdust said:
If the stove burned longer this wouldn't be needed. An upgrade to the bigger/longer burning Ideal Steel may be a solution.

I liked the look of the progress better I guess it will have to do oh well shux. Maybe the ideal steel in the other room.

tarzan · Jan 31, 2016

What's with you Woodstock guys! Last winter your argument was more like, "we need heat, 12 hours between reloads is fine by us, a stove that will burn 30 hours is useless to us".

Now, all of a sudden y'all are reloading every three days and comparing lengths!

JA600L · Jan 31, 2016

Haha its a much different winter. Here atleast...

Woody Stover · Jan 31, 2016

embers aplenty said:
Will Blaze King ever have a rear vent option?? Probably not?

I don't expect them, any time soon, to offer versatility, good ash-handling or a heavy-duty build. I don't think they are at all interested in cutting into their profit margins. You're gonna get the thermostat, which is nice, but that's about the extent of it. There's no seam maintenance on a welded steel stove, so that's something...

embers aplenty said:
My fireplace max height is 25".

Max? Got a pic? Is there a steel lintel along the top of the opening, or could you get a little more height somehow? You would need about another inch to get the Keystone to vent into there. A last resort would be to have them custom-cut the legs an inch at the plant.
You're talking Ideal Steel and 2.5 cu.ft. stoves, but I think you may find that your little Yosemite does OK. They claim 1.45 cu.ft fire box, but what does the fire box actually measure in loadable, usable space? I measured the Keystone at 1.4 usable. The problem is the peaks and valleys in output of the Yosemite, with it roasting you at times. That's where the cat stove comes in; You can burn low all load long, and you'll still be getting decent heat off the stove in the morning. If you look at the EPA numbers (to be taken with a grain of salt, granted) and compare outputs, you'll see that the Keystone is rated to run lower on the low end, with a higher top end. It can jack some heat when you open it up a little but you'll lose a little burn time. Like here, TN is Hickory country; That stuff will burn loooong at high stove top temps in the 'stone.

Just have a little on hand for when you need it. Of course, you've read volumes here on the benefits of dry wood...
http://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf

JA600L · Jan 31, 2016

OhioBurner© said:
Your probably right... the only reason I even mentioned it is because even on my long burns I have done, every one of them so far has seen the cat hit 1200F and stovetop 700. Even if it was only for a couple or few hours it is still a lot of heat. This may not even be a concern... I am still a newbie and learning to control the stove. It sure would be easier with BK's auto-damper! But I think after a couple more long burns I'll better get the hang of it.

Wow your quick JA, that was only posted minutes before your mentioned it!

I plan on doing another similar test and posting here on hearth, I fiddled with stuff to much with that one, I'd like a more even test with minimum amount of air changes, not I have the magnet somewhat figured out how much of the secondary air hole to cover, either that or get a key damper to slow down my strong draft.

I think we may have had a conversation about that magnet. ..

OhioBurner© · Jan 31, 2016

JA600L said:
Haha its a much different winter. Here atleast...

Yes, milder winter, plus I've only had mine for less than 2 months... I can't speak for the rest of the IS owners. I suspect many burn with the secondaries too much. When I got it, for weeks I ran it like a tube stove, perhaps just from habit. Ran like that would be your typical 2 load per day.

Blaze King, like I meant to be clear about earlier, can idle lower. But I think you can do a couple simple things to get the IS very similar with either a key damper or sticking a magnet over part of the secondary air hole (just for low cat burns of course!).

Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, especially if the IS won't fit anyhow, unless the OP has some specific questions. I'll give a detailed burn report of the IS low burn on another thread, though I may wait for my next burn, since I am still working on figuring it out.

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