Cleaning up tops after a logging job

laxin213 · Feb 15, 2016

Hello,

looking for some advice that I'm rather frustrated to be asking for. We just had our first child about 4 weeks ago. Already seems like I'll never have any free time again! It's great but kids are a lot of work.

I have had a contract for about 6 months (and longer in the planning stage) to have about 65 trees logged off about 3 acres of land. About 50 hard maple, rest hickory, ash and beech. They were just taken down, and the tops are left. I've got 7 acres and this land is separated by a ravine, so I can access it but I have to drive about 1 mile in a roundabout way. I have a 550xp, an ariens splitter and a gator. It's a nice firewood setup, last year I made about 22 face cords.

My question is what to do with these tops. 65 mature trees maybe 25" average diameter how many face cords is that, 50-60? For me that's I'm guessing at least 100 hours of cutting, splitting, and hauling it in my gator, and stacking. With the baby, both of us working, house projects, etc I don't think I have the time this summer. How long could they sit before the wood gets shot - maybe 2 years? I do have a newer insert and I burned 11 face cords (about 4 full cords) last year. I could get a dump trailer and split and sell but again it's a time thing I think. Around here delivered, split face cords go for about $85 or so. What would a firewood processor pay for something like this, tops on the ground? I don't want someone that isn't insured I'm worried about liability. I have cousins and buddies that have saws but having a bunch of people running them on my land makes me worried, if I have to ask you where your chaps are, not worth it to me.

Thoughts? It just burns me to let it rot in the ground I can't do it I wasn't raised that way to waste. Thanks

laynes69 · Feb 15, 2016

Our neighbor had quite a few acres logged. We could cut as much as we wanted. What we do is either cut things to 4' lengths, or cut to rounds, stack and cover. That way you can take quite a bit of wood in little time, and work on it when you get time. Keeping it off the ground and covered will keep things solid.

Oldman47 · Feb 15, 2016

If the tops are typical, I would guess you have plenty of time because most of that wood will not be in direct soil contact.

woodhog73 · Feb 15, 2016

I can only speak about red and white oak as that's all I've really got on my property that I bother cutting.

I've got stuff on the ground that's coming up on 2 years old that when I cut it up is as green and solid as if I just dropped the tree today. I've got rounds bucked that are 1 year to 1.5 years old that look dryer on the ends. However are still very green in the center once I split them. And they are sitting in the dirt.

So I think your fine for a couple years.

My family burns around the clock and they go out and cut downed wood that's been on the ground for several years. It looks a little rotted on the outside bark but once it's cut lots of it is still fairly solid in the center. And these were trees downed by old age and wind. Yours I assume were healthy when dropped so may take longer to rot.

Again just my observation with oak. Can't say about softer less dense wood

hman · Feb 15, 2016

The tops should last a good 2 years.Once your able to start working on them a hour or two here and there,you will be surprised how much you can get done. You could cut a few tops up,and then pick a time to split and haul out.

Dobish · Feb 16, 2016

my son and my daughter have grown to be accustomed to sleeping with the sound of compressors, nail guns, saw, and chainsaws... throw them in the carrier, drive on our there, and start cutting! (obviously keeping them a safe distance, in a well protected place)

therdlesstravld · Feb 17, 2016

Dobish said:
my son and my daughter have grown to be accustomed to sleeping with the sound of compressors, nail guns, saw, and chainsaws... throw them in the carrier, drive on our there, and start cutting! (obviously keeping them a safe distance, in a well protected place)

Only thing my kids (3 and 6 weeks old) won't tolerate is the sound of my impact driver. Both of them will not have it they HATE it. My son sleeps rght through a nail gun though you'd be surprised at that age what they could care less about.

CountryBoy19 · Feb 17, 2016

It will last a while, but then again, why such consternation in letting nature have some of it's own product back? Nature provided it to you, don't get too bent out of shape letting nature reclaim some of it. It makes excellent home & habitat for numerous creatures, most too small to see with the naked eye.

I've come to the conclusion that there are too many "welfare junkies" around me that sell firewood to keep their income in a cash form so as not to preclude them from getting their monthly check.* Firewood prices are so cheap I don't see how they can do it. I cannot justify my time to sell firewood. I've actually been tempted to just buy my own wood if I could find a supplier that could cut it to my desired length and supply it reliably. Around here it sells for $40/"rick" in the off-season. I'm sure if I could find somebody reliable I may even get them to deliver for that price if I buy enough.

*No offense intended to those that truly need welfare nor any offense intended toward those that sell firewood as a legitimate source of income.

Pat32rf · Feb 17, 2016

The tops that are not removed are organic fertilizer for the next growth cycle. Some people chip them and leave them so they break down faster while others leave them as shelter for small critters such as fawns....
Here in Ontario you are smart to have liability insurance on any land that you own, unless you have nothing to loose.

Wood Duck · Feb 17, 2016

With a new baby, my advice is this:

1. Give up the idea of getting all that wood cut. You won't have time to get it all.
2. Every so often arrange a babysitter, tell your wife to go do something she likes to do, and go cut wood.
3. Enjoy the baby. They grow up fast although it doesn't seem that way when you are dealing with them every day.

chazcarr · Feb 17, 2016

Sounds like me! I have a 4month old and a 2 year old. Getting to the acres of woods is difficult.
At the 4 week old stage with my first kid, I thought I would never get to the woodpile again and considered giving it up.

But the good news here is that kids grow FAST. Within 2 months with proper sleep training, your child should be taking a few naps. This is my window of opportunity.
Get the kid up on a Saturday morning and enjoy their company until first nap. Have everything gassed and ready to go. Once the kid's head hits the mattress, head out the door.

You'd be surprised how much you can get done in this timeframe. I also have a IP-cam hooke dup to my cellphone so I can be alerted to when my kid wakes up.
Sometimes when bargaining with my wife, I can work on a Saturday from around 10am to 3pm. Lots of time. Usually all I have to promise is bringing home dinner.

It seems really overwhelming at first, but now my oldest helps me stack.

sportbikerider78 · Feb 17, 2016

therdlesstravld said:
Only thing my kids (3 and 6 weeks old) won't tolerate is the sound of my impact driver. Both of them will not have it they HATE it. My son sleeps rght through a nail gun though you'd be surprised at that age what they could care less about.

My son and daughter slept through my wife and I demo'ing 375 sqft of tile flooring with hammers, scrapers and shovels. It was super loud. They are 3 and 1.5 yrs old.
At about 6 months old, we started leaving their bedroom doors open. This gets them used to noise...and my wife and I are just generally, pretty loud.

heavy hammer · Feb 17, 2016

Kids are very tolerant of a lot of different things. My two and a half year little girl loves hanging out with daddy when processing firewood. She just doesn't care for the chainsaws, so I cut when she naps or not around. When splitting and stacking she loves to hang out I even show her how to swing a little hatchet. Kids grow and change very fast enjoy the time with them. Just yesterday it seemed like we brought home a baby now I have a toddler running around everywhere. I go through about ten cords a year between me and my parents and I have been able to easily keep up. Like others have said just be prepared, if I'm going to just split wood for a couple hours I have all my wedges maul and sledge hammer loaded up in the truck and ready to go. You will be amazed what you can accomplish in just a few hours here and there, between cutting splitting stacking. If you don't get it all I know you will think about it but hell there is always more firewood you just have to find it.

laxin213 · Mar 14, 2016

I've started to process some of it. Few hours here, few hours there.

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My neighbor just called me. He saw me working. His buddy processes firewood and sells quite a bit of it. He is offering around $20 a face cord to buy the tree tops off of me as they are . I need to work out the details with him but I'm estimating 50 face cords there (there is a lot not pictured 2+ acres), so $1000 in my pocket without doing any work, well anymore than the few hours I've spent bucking so far.... I can process it little by little, but we have many projects going on this summer, and I have 34 face cords currently c/s/s before this wood was taken down. I was thinking of maybe getting another offer on it, but is this a fair price? Around here face cords css, dried and delivered go for $100. It's a lot of work I know I've done it. He would give me $1,000 and do the work and possibly see $5,000 out of it. I could never get 5,000 for it I don't have a dump trailer, I don't have the extra room for 50+ cords and the time factor would be tough. I do push myself hard I have rods in my back I end up taking longer than I want to to get stuff done and if end up maybe getting my cousin involved and his brother the 3 of us could go in and split it 3 ways, we'd all profit $2,000 each.... Seems like everyone is saying go for it, just so muddy back there taking forever. Frustrating.

Anyone ever sell tops or buy tree tops and logging left overs and have an idea of what they go for? Is $20 a face cord a fair price if I did go with it?

mark cline · Mar 15, 2016

When my property was logged before I bought it, a local offered $5 / cord (face cord ) that he would take off the back of my property into his. I agreed because I would never be able to get to it . So it would have rotted and I would get nothing . $20 a cord is a good price for doing nothing , but set a price instead of going on his word about how many cord he took out . Generally ,3 average tops would come out to a cord that I have found over 35 yrs cutting wood.

laxin213 · Mar 15, 2016

mark cline said:
When my property was logged before I bought it, a local offered $5 / cord (face cord ) that he would take off the back of my property into his. I agreed because I would never be able to get to it . So it would have rotted and I would get nothing . $20 a cord is a good price for doing nothing , but set a price instead of going on his word about how many cord he took out . Generally ,3 average tops would come out to a cord that I have found over 35 yrs cutting wood.

Thanks mark, that's what I was thinking a set price so I don't have to go on his word of how may he got. When you say 3 average tops yield a cord, we're talking a 4' X 4' X 8' cord right? I end up speaking in terms of the vague "face cord" which is 16" X 4' X 8'. At these dimensions, 3 face cord equals a full cord. So 1 average top would yield a face cord? That's been my experience in my limited cutting of tops. Thanks

hamslam42 · Mar 15, 2016

laxin213 said:
I end up speaking in terms of the vague "face cord" which is 16" X 4' X 8'

A lot of people from New York seem to talk in "face cords" a lot. I had this discussion with my brother-in-law recently who lives near Rochester. The only official firewood measurements are in cords. There is no official "face cord" measurement. Check out this link:
http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/WM/WMwood.html
If the term "face cord" is used, it has to be accompanied with a length measurement. For example, a 16" face cord for your 16" x 4' x 8', or a 24" face cord if each piece is 24" long, or a 12" face cord, etc.

laxin213 · Mar 15, 2016

Yes I have read that. On Craigslist here, face cords is all you see. A cord is a measure of volume and if you start talking in face cords it's all about cutting to that consistent length, if you do 16" always 3 face cords at 16" is 1 cord. It's just if you look on Craigslist it's all everyone adversities. I know some states like Virginia go so far as to say the only unit of measure for firewood is cord and it's technically illegal to list to sell or buy firewood in any other dimension other than a full cord, half cord, 1/3 cord (16"face cord) Etc.

paul bunion · Mar 15, 2016

Here's the DEC stumpage report form last summer; http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/spr2015summer.pdf

Look at the bottom section. Firewood in your neighborhood was paying from $5 to $20 per REAL cord. If I'm not mistaken that report is showing what a land owner could expect to get paid per cord after the logger and trucker got their cut for harvesting and delivery. If correct you are getting offered 3x that! And its the leftover trash that the logger and trucker didn't want because they cant make the money from it to cover their costs. But to your prospective buyer he's getting it for a lot less than the $100+ cords that your logger/trucker would have been delivering to him so it looks sweet to him. He might not be putting much value on his time as you seem to know, but he's certainly getting easy access to felled tree tops so there is some value added over a standing tree if he lacks the equipment to handle logs. All in all it seems like a pretty good deal for you. Your buyer might be able to gross $5000, but you get the first $1000 long before he gets paid and he's still going to have to work for the rest.

mark cline · Mar 16, 2016

laxin213 said:
Thanks mark, that's what I was thinking a set price so I don't have to go on his word of how may he got. When you say 3 average tops yield a cord, we're talking a 4' X 4' X 8' cord right? I end up speaking in terms of the vague "face cord" which is 16" X 4' X 8'. At these dimensions, 3 face cord equals a full cord. So 1 average top would yield a face cord? That's been my experience in my limited cutting of tops. Thanks

3 average tops equal 1 face cord

Cleaning up tops after a logging job

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