Insurance: The logic behind Reporting

markortwein · Feb 22, 2016

All,

I've noticed that members of this community tend to report the installation of a wood burning unit to their insurance companies. I take it this is done to prevent an insurance company from voiding coverage, no? I'm curious, however, why this is necessary if the unit is installed to local building codes? In my case I believe the NFPA would inform this Mississippi code. Anyway, people routinely replace potentially dangerous appliances without notifying the insurance company (gas burning stoves, hot water tanks, etc). Often they do so on their own. I'm just curious why folks tend to report these installations to their insurance companies.

Thanks in advance!

Mark Ortwein

DougA · Feb 22, 2016

Anytime you make a substantive change to your home, the insurance company should be advised.
Insurance companies are full of money and lawyers and if you have a claim, they will often try to find any way (legitimate of otherwise) from paying your claim it they can link it to anything that could have modified the policy had they been told about it.
Some companies get very concerned and want the agent to check it, some just make a note on the file and that's it. Each company and each region is different. In my case, my installation must be inspected by a certified person and that full report is sent to the insurance company. They get very sticky.

bholler · Feb 22, 2016

The difference if that your insurance company does not care if you have a gas stove or hot water heater but many do charge extra for wood burning appliances. Also you say about replacement of those other appliances if you are replacing a wood burner they already know about there is no need to report. but a new one should be reported. They have determined that there is allot more liability to them with a wood burner than those other appliances so some of them want to inspect that wood burner or at least have it installed by a pro. Some others don't care but you should still notify them so you are covered if anything happens.

danimal1968 · Feb 22, 2016

Typically when you apply for insurance you fill out a questionnaire about the condition of the home, and one question is whether there is a woodburning appliance (stove or fireplace). In the policy itself, there's usually a provision that requires the homeowner to notify the insurer if any of the answers given at the time the insurance was placed have changed. Either answering falsely or failing to report a new stove would give the basis for the insurance company to deny a claim by arguing that the homeowner either provided inaccurate info or failed to comply with the notice requirement.

The way I'd look at it is this - if the insurer knows about the stove and there's a fire, there's no issue. If they don't know about the stove and there's a fire, the burden will be on the homeowner to prove that the stove had nothing to do with it.

bholler · Feb 22, 2016

I will tell you something sort of amusing about this. When i put a wood stove in my house i called the insurance company and told them they said ok we will get back to you. About an hour and a half later i got a call from them asking me to inspect my own stove they had not made the connection. when i told them they said just send us a report on it. Which i did and they sent me a check for the inspection. I found it rather amusing.

markortwein · Feb 22, 2016

bholler said:
The difference if that your insurance company does not care if you have a gas stove or hot water heater but many do charge extra for wood burning appliances. Also you say about replacement of those other appliances if you are replacing a wood burner they already know about there is no need to report. but a new one should be reported. They have determined that there is allot more liability to them with a wood burner than those other appliances so some of them want to inspect that wood burner or at least have it installed by a pro. Some others don't care but you should still notify them so you are covered if anything happens.

This is very helpful. I'll need to take a look at my insurance policy.

markortwein · Feb 22, 2016

danimal1968 said:
Typically when you apply for insurance you fill out a questionnaire about the condition of the home, and one question is whether there is a woodburning appliance (stove or fireplace). In the policy itself, there's usually a provision that requires the homeowner to notify the insurer if any of the answers given at the time the insurance was placed have changed. Either answering falsely or failing to report a new stove would give the basis for the insurance company to deny a claim by arguing that the homeowner either provided inaccurate info or failed to comply with the notice requirement.

The way I'd look at it is this - if the insurer knows about the stove and there's a fire, there's no issue. If they don't know about the stove and there's a fire, the burden will be on the homeowner to prove that the stove had nothing to do with it.

This is very helpful. Thanks!

BrotherBart · Feb 22, 2016

bholler said:
I will tell you something sort of amusing about this. When i put a wood stove in my house i called the insurance company and told them they said ok we will get back to you. About an hour and a half later i got a call from them asking me to inspect my own stove they had not made the connection. when i told them they said just send us a report on it. Which i did and they sent me a check for the inspection. I found it rather amusing.

Love it.

bholler · Feb 22, 2016

BrotherBart said:
Love it.

I couldn't believe they paid me. I did not send them a bill they just paid me what i usually bill for an inspection

KD0AXS · Feb 22, 2016

Our insurance company required that the stove be installed by a licensed contractor, and the local building inspector had to sign off on it. They made it very clear that any claim related to a wood burning appliance would not be covered if their requirements were not met. The increase in our premium was minimal, I think it was around $40/year.

firefighterjake · Feb 23, 2016

I've told this story a few times here, but it is applicable and true.

Parents put in an Outdoor Wood Boiler and never told the insurance company. The OWB had a fire (either due to a hot ember coming too close to combustibles or an electrical issue) and the resulting fire spread to the home. Insurance company found out about the OWB (and that they had built an indoor pool) -- neither of which they had informed the insurance company. Insurance company eventually paid them . . . but they really took their sweet time in processing the claim and in the end they did not pay the full replacement value of the home due to the changes made to the home without being notified of those changes.

In my opinion . . . it's worth notifying the insurance company. As mentioned, in some cases there may be a small increase to the premium, in some cases the company may not want to insure you (there are plenty of other insurance companies that will though) and in some cases there will be no change to the policy or premium.

gnatboy911 · Feb 23, 2016

I'm in the middle of my install. A couple months ago, while still researching my install, I called my insurance company as part of my research. He told me that as long as the stove was installed per manufacturer specifications I was good to go. No inspection report, no paperwork needing sent, no increase in premium. The town requires a permit and inspection by the building inspector, but I was surprised that the insurance company didn't need anything. I'm probably going to send them a copy of the building inspector's final report just to cover my bases.

Pug · Feb 23, 2016

I just installed a new stove in my home. Prior to installing it, I called the insurance agency and they said I must have a building permit and to send them a copy once installed signed off. I obtained a building permit and scheduled an appt with the inspector to meet me at my home prior to my installation which he did. I mainly wanted to know how he desiphered the brochure that came with the stove. We went over the clearances etc. I took pictures through the install and will call him upon final installation before I button it up. It cost me $50 for the city or Boise, Idaho which is well worth the well being I am doing it correctly and in compliance with my insurance carrier.

Gibraltar IV · Feb 23, 2016

I called my insurance before my install, and they said I would have to fill out a questionairre and send them pictures. They later changed their story and said it had to be installed by a "professional," which they could not define. They later defined "professional," as a "contractor," which they could not define either. What they really mean = anyone except me. This was State Farm.

Pug · Feb 23, 2016

Gibraltar IV said:
I called my insurance before my install, and they said I would have to fill out a questionairre and send them pictures. They later changed their story and said it had to be installed by a "professional," which they could not define. They later defined "professional," as a "contractor," which they could not define either. What they really mean = anyone except me. This was State Farm.

My insurance carrier never said anything about me installing or a "pro". I don't believe a carrier can say that you can't install it yourself. As long as it passes the building inspector it should be fine. In Idaho a homeowner can do any part of the construction including framing, wiring, plumbing, etc. as long as it passes muster. I consider myself more qualified on a few parts of a build than a so called "pro".

Rockhound · Feb 23, 2016

When I bought my home recently it had a chimney which was only for a wood stove. They never looked to see whether I had a wood stove or a fireplace. They just listed fireplace on the coverage. There was not a wood stove with the house when I bought it just the connection. So my question is should I notify the insurance when I hook up a stove or am I already covered and maybe I should not rock the boat.

tarzan · Feb 23, 2016

When I purchase my home (double wide) it came with a pre fab fireplace. After a couple years I tore it out and had a wood stove (mobile home approved) professionally installed. When I told my insurance company they canceled me. There reason was the fireplace came with it so it was fine, the stove was not.

bholler · Feb 23, 2016

Pug said:
My insurance carrier never said anything about me installing or a "pro". I don't believe a carrier can say that you can't install it yourself. As long as it passes the building inspector it should be fine. In Idaho a homeowner can do any part of the construction including framing, wiring, plumbing, etc. as long as it passes muster. I consider myself more qualified on a few parts of a build than a so called "pro".

An insurance company can require what ever they want. They are a private company providing you with a service they can cancel your policy for lots of stuff regardless of whether it meets code or not.

Gibraltar IV · Feb 23, 2016

You are correct, bholler. Conversely, I am an independent consumer. So if I don't like the insurance company's terms I can take my business elsewhere. Owning free and clear, the insurance is for my peace of mind; not the bank. I took great pleasure of explaining this to my agent - felt like I was really sticking it to the man. As a wise man once said, though, "the man don't care."

bholler · Feb 24, 2016

Gibraltar IV said:
You are correct, bholler. Conversely, I am an independent consumer. So if I don't like the insurance company's terms I can take my business elsewhere.

Absolutely correct as well

AmbDrvr253 · Feb 24, 2016

bholler said:
I couldn't believe they paid me. I did not send them a bill they just paid me what i usually bill for an inspection

That is hillarious

firefighterjake · Feb 24, 2016

Gibraltar IV said:
I called my insurance before my install, and they said I would have to fill out a questionairre and send them pictures. They later changed their story and said it had to be installed by a "professional," which they could not define. They later defined "professional," as a "contractor," which they could not define either. What they really mean = anyone except me. This was State Farm.

What they really mean = someone we may be able to sue if there is a fire related to the woodstove so we can offset our financial losses.

Insurance: The logic behind Reporting

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