Basement Water infiltration (Sorry long read)

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

Have a problem that I have been dealing with for the past 2 years and it seems to be getting worse not better with the things I have tried. Here is the background of what is happening.
My house is in the lowest part of a coldesac and I have always had water to deal with in my basement year around. My sump pump kicks on about every 3-4 minutes. I have 2 pumps in the crock (one is a back-up in case the main one dies) with a battery back-up system that will run a pump for about 6 hours in case I loose power and I am not home. This has worked for me about 12 years with out really any problems. Two years ago, my battery back-up transfer switch died and the float on my main sump pump got hung up on the side of the crock and the back-up pump didn't kick on and I ended up with 3 inches of water in the basement before I caught the problem.
Now the problem I have that I can't solve. After the flood, which happened in the winter (Feb.), around spring when the rain starts and the snow starts to thaw I have water that starts to come in on my slab on the far wall opposite of the sump pump crock. The sump pump is working fine and taking out water but it is like the water on the far side can't migrate fast enough under the slab to get to the crock. The place it comes in is the first place that water will start to come in the basement if the power is off and I don't have the pumps working.
This is what I have tried so far. Last year I had the one side of my house that is on the lowest side of the property dug up to see what was going on with the drainage tile. After digging we found that there was no drainage tile and the basement wall was not sealed in any way. After putting drainage tile in and sealing the wall and trying to drain the tile to the lowest place possible on my property. Which ended up having a 4 inch drop from foundation footing to a ditch that runs through my property, no other place to go. The run is about 100 feet. The end of the pipe is almost always covered with water in the ditch when we are in the wet time of the year. Which is 10 month out of the year for me. The easement ditch always has water in it year around but does no always cover the end of my pipe. This endeavor did not help with my problem as the following early spring I had the same problem.
The second thing I tried was to put bigger gutters on the house this fall. I did this to make sure all rain water was getting away from the foundation that comes off my roof. All down spouts were replaced and I made sure that the water was getting away. This seems to not have helped either as a couple of days ago when we got a real warm day with plenty of snow melt and some rain the water started creeping in.

Dr.Faustus · Mar 2, 2016

is the pipe under the slab along the perimeter of the basement? if so, are there clean outs along the way?

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

Dr.Faustus said:
is the pipe under the slab along the perimeter of the basement? if so, are there clean outs along the way?

Yes, there are pipes I believe that run under the outside of slab. I say I think because I can see 2 metal pipes that go into the crock on opposite sides. I have not tried to run a snake into those pipes. I do notice that when crock empties and starts to fill again one of the pipes lets water in much faster than the other one but I noticed this many years ago before I had the problem. I have no clean outs any where. I do have about a 3/4" gap (groove) between the wall and the slab, where I can see gravel and water. I have gone along wall and made sure to clean out this groove as well as possible.

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

Few more pics

sportbikerider78 · Mar 2, 2016

At a glance, it looks to me that the water pooling around that ditch in your foundation is the same as the water level in that brook. Is that correct? If so, you have a high water table and need to figure out how to get that ditch to flow more water and dry out your property.

semipro · Mar 2, 2016

Have you considered an interior perimeter drain?

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

sportbikerider78 said:
At a glance, it looks to me that the water pooling around that ditch in your foundation is the same as the water level in that brook. Is that correct? If so, you have a high water table and need to figure out how to get that ditch to flow more water and dry out your property.

Yes, that is correct. I had the town come in several years ago and clean out the ditch and grade it to keep water flowing The problem is they could not get very much of a grade due to the fact that I am at about the lowest point of the land. I am going to call them again this spring to have them clean out the vegetation and get the water moving better again. I have noticed the past year the ditch is never drying out again.

sportbikerider78 · Mar 2, 2016

That would be a good place to start. If you can't lower the water table can you put a membrane on the outside of the foundation that allows the water to sheet down and drain or be pumped out?

A big part of me wants to say, water and gravity always win and anything you do other than lower the table is mitigation.

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

Just talked to local highway supervisor who takes care of easements drainage ditches in the town. He met me after work to take a look and he agreed that they need to get out and clean and scrape ditch to get water moving. He looked up last time they did work on my ditch and it was 5 years ago. Bad news is they won't be able to do work until this summer as this was not on there list or budget to do it this year, but he said they would get it done. This will help but I still need to figure out why water is coming in on the slab when it never use to. I think I'm going to rent a power snake and see how far I can run it through pipes that go into crock.

LowbanksArcher · Mar 2, 2016

Did you have the wall sealed with tar and wrap? Is there any way you can lower the depth at which your sump pump kicks on? Thereby lowering the water elevation around your basement.

Husky · Mar 2, 2016

LowbanksArcher said:
Did you have the wall sealed with tar and wrap? Is there any way you can lower the depth at which your sump pump kicks on? Thereby lowering the water elevation around your basement.

Yes they did. Problem is I'm sure my other three walls are not sealed and I'm sure no drainage tile if there was none on that wall. I never thought about changing the float height on the pumps. I might give that a try. Only problem I could see with that is the pump running more. Thanks for idea.

Dr.Faustus · Mar 2, 2016

Do you have any buildup like iron bacteria in the pipe or sump crock? you would see it as a red, possibly slimy coating. sometimes there is a clear slimy coating. if thats what happening, it restricts the flow of the pipe. Since you have no cleanouts, you can sprinkle iron out in the wall gap where you can see the gravel and water. it'll make its way into the pipe and clear things up.

if that doesnt help, try lightly snaking through the sump crock pipe. if that doesnt help as a last resort try a plumbers bladder on the pipe. you'd need the bladder, a garden hose and water spigot. The pressure should be enough to unplug enough of the holes in the pipe.

if you have a pressure washer, they sell a long rubber pressure washer hose and a jet tip. you insert it in the pipe, start the pressure washer and snake it in. works really well.

I have a high water table too, and crock with 2 sumps in it and a 4" discharge line, also into a brook just like yours. i also have the red slime problem. I have to add the iron out about monthly to keep things flowing. My sumps runs every minute, even during a drought.

Here is a good tip. buy a zoeller pump, and use this to control it - http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/PHCC-Pro-Series-USC3/p8125.html
this has been working great for me. its much better than any float switch or anything i've ever tried.

EatenByLimestone · Mar 2, 2016

I think the only thing that will solve the issue is to trench around the foundation and install tile by the footing. Pump all the water you gather far enough downstream that it doesn't flow back toward the house.

Dr.Faustus · Mar 2, 2016

EatenByLimestone said:
I think the only thing that will solve the issue is to trench around the foundation and install tile by the footing. Pump all the water you gather far enough downstream that it doesn't flow back toward the house.

As long as the tile is installed lower than the level where its leaking, it should solve the problem. an expensive fix, depending on how low your footing is.

EatenByLimestone · Mar 3, 2016

It must also be able to handle the volume of water. What isn't clear is the source of the water. Is it a high water table or a spring? Is it surface runoff? Maybe both?

You may be able to divert surface runoff around the house with grading, but if the water seeops from below this won't work.

Figure out the relative makeup of the soil and the water table height. The particle size will tell you if drainage to the water table can occur.

maverick06 · Mar 3, 2016

+1 lower the float on the sump pump.

I have a sump and sump pump, the original pump wouldn't turn on until the water was over the height of the perf pipe going into the sump. The pump would still pump it out, but the water would seep through the cinderblock wall. I wasn't smart enough to think that they were connected (the seepage was easy 20' from the pit). I put in another pump in the pit (have 2 in case one dies). This new one activates much lower, way before the perf pipe is underwater. haven't had water come through the wall since, makes perfect sense. (the second pump I put in was intended to be a backup, so I got an el cheapo from harbor freight. finding out that it activates lower, I made it my primary. been working fine for 4 years now). any benefit to your pumping capacity would help.

Husky · Mar 3, 2016

Dr.Faustus said:
Do you have any buildup like iron bacteria in the pipe or sump crock? you would see it as a red, possibly slimy coating. sometimes there is a clear slimy coating. if thats what happening, it restricts the flow of the pipe. Since you have no cleanouts, you can sprinkle iron out in the wall gap where you can see the gravel and water. it'll make its way into the pipe and clear things up.

if that doesnt help, try lightly snaking through the sump crock pipe. if that doesnt help as a last resort try a plumbers bladder on the pipe. you'd need the bladder, a garden hose and water spigot. The pressure should be enough to unplug enough of the holes in the pipe.

if you have a pressure washer, they sell a long rubber pressure washer hose and a jet tip. you insert it in the pipe, start the pressure washer and snake it in. works really well.

I have a high water table too, and crock with 2 sumps in it and a 4" discharge line, also into a brook just like yours. i also have the red slime problem. I have to add the iron out about monthly to keep things flowing. My sumps runs every minute, even during a drought.

Here is a good tip. buy a zoeller pump, and use this to control it - http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/PHCC-Pro-Series-USC3/p8125.html
this has been working great for me. its much better than any float switch or anything i've ever tried.

I do see brownish red water on top of my gravel in the gap all the way around the perimeter. I checked the crock and yes the same is in that and it is slimmy as you have said. Looks like I will be trying some iron out this week end. Do you make a solution and pour it in the gap or just sprinkle it in? Thanks, this make perfect sense now that you brought it to my attention. I have high hopes for this.

LowbanksArcher · Mar 3, 2016

Husky said:
Yes they did. Problem is I'm sure my other three walls are not sealed and I'm sure no drainage tile if there was none on that wall. I never thought about changing the float height on the pumps. I might give that a try. Only problem I could see with that is the pump running more. Thanks for idea.

maverick06 said:
+1 lower the float on the sump pump.

I have a sump and sump pump, the original pump wouldn't turn on until the water was over the height of the perf pipe going into the sump. The pump would still pump it out, but the water would seep through the cinderblock wall. I wasn't smart enough to think that they were connected (the seepage was easy 20' from the pit). I put in another pump in the pit (have 2 in case one dies). This new one activates much lower, way before the perf pipe is underwater. haven't had water come through the wall since, makes perfect sense. (the second pump I put in was intended to be a backup, so I got an el cheapo from harbor freight. finding out that it activates lower, I made it my primary. been working fine for 4 years now). any benefit to your pumping capacity would help.

I did this in my sump pit. We just poured a new basement a few months ago and the presence of water has been on my mind. I have no neighbors, so no one can tell me what to expect for ground water levels. I didn't like the idea of the sump pit filling as high as it was before the pump came on, and the gravel under the basement floor having water in it, so i removed the clamp where the float cord is attached to the top of the submersible pump, and reattached it as low as I could on the pump base that would allow it to run without sucking air. The downside is that the pump runs more often, for shorter intervals(20 seconds approx. every hour or so, in my case), which WILL lead to premature wear/failure of the pump. Which is why I'd recommend a backup like maverick06 mentions for the day WHEN the primary pump fails. But by doing this, i've lowered the ground water level under and around my basement by about 8-10 inches. That's 8-10" of added security in my mind

Husky · Mar 3, 2016

maverick06 said:
+1 lower the float on the sump pump.

I have a sump and sump pump, the original pump wouldn't turn on until the water was over the height of the perf pipe going into the sump. The pump would still pump it out, but the water would seep through the cinderblock wall. I wasn't smart enough to think that they were connected (the seepage was easy 20' from the pit). I put in another pump in the pit (have 2 in case one dies). This new one activates much lower, way before the perf pipe is underwater. haven't had water come through the wall since, makes perfect sense. (the second pump I put in was intended to be a backup, so I got an el cheapo from harbor freight. finding out that it activates lower, I made it my primary. been working fine for 4 years now). any benefit to your pumping capacity would help.

My pump also does not kick on until it is over the pipes in the crock. I think I am going to adjust them to so it kicks on just as it approaches the bottom of the pipes. I definitely always have water behind at least the first 1 or 2 row of block on my wall. I can tell by the color of the first 2 rows and someone along the line before I bought the house drilled weep holes in the block that are now filled in with what appears to be a build up of iron from the ground water. Does anyone think I should open these holes back up or am I looking for trouble by doing that. I know a while back one was weeping a little so I picked at it and the water squirted out like a fountain on to the slab so I plugged it.

sportbikerider78 · Mar 3, 2016

Sounds like you have some good solutions going.

If you're worried about pump life, decrease the amount of water coming out of the pump. You'll pump less GPM, but it you'll have fewer cycles and longer life.

maverick06 · Mar 4, 2016

Don't worry about pump life, they are cheap. The concern is what to do when the pump fails. That's why I have a backup. battery backups only last a few hours and the batter, I am told, only lasts for about 3 years. For me I have two pumps in the pit. both are ac powered, which is good for me. This is designed for pump failure, not power failure. someone is always home at my house and I have a generator, so power failures aren't the primary concern.

semipro · Mar 4, 2016

For backup; if you have a utility water supply (not a well) there are water-powered sump pumps available.

Husky · Mar 4, 2016

maverick06 said:
Don't worry about pump life, they are cheap. The concern is what to do when the pump fails. That's why I have a backup. battery backups only last a few hours and the batter, I am told, only lasts for about 3 years. For me I have two pumps in the pit. both are ac powered, which is good for me. This is designed for pump failure, not power failure. someone is always home at my house and I have a generator, so power failures aren't the primary concern.

I also have 2 pumps in crock. I worry more about failure. I do have a system for backup that transfers back up power to my pump with an inverter that will run pump for about 6 hours. Now that I think about it ,I need to replace those batteries as they are pushing 10 years old. I do test every once in a while but have not let it run for any length of time so not sure how long it would last in a power failure.

greg13 · Mar 7, 2016

It sounds to me like there are multiple problems here. The first one being the person that thought it would be a good idea to but a basement in an area with a high water table, the next is the planning board that allowed it.
Since it is now YOUR problem you are fighting the forces of nature, and she ALWAYS wins. You need to minimize the effects when she does hit back.
I would widen the trenches up and get as much gravel in there as you can, and run your drainage tiles there also you want the water to take the path of least resistance. I would also keep a few pumps in the basement and install a water alarm.

Dr.Faustus · Mar 8, 2016

Husky said:
I do see brownish red water on top of my gravel in the gap all the way around the perimeter. I checked the crock and yes the same is in that and it is slimmy as you have said. Looks like I will be trying some iron out this week end. Do you make a solution and pour it in the gap or just sprinkle it in? Thanks, this make perfect sense now that you brought it to my attention. I have high hopes for this.

I just sprinkle it in. I have cleanouts in my system. it might take some time to work into it adding it through the wall gap but it should find its way there.

Basement Water infiltration (Sorry long read)

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