Advice on picking a stove

bobingersoll · Jan 3, 2008

Just found the forum. Have looked around a little. I may not use the correct terms in my questions, so please be patient with me.

Here is my quandary: I have had vent free gas logs in my brick fireplace for about 10 years now. Due to the cost of gas, I have decided to get rid of the logs and find another way to use the fireplace as supplemental heat. I am trying to do this as inexpensively as possible. Looks are not terribly critical.

One wall in a downstairs room is totally bricked over. The fireplace is in the center, and 16" above the floor. A 16"X16" (height and depth) brick shelf runs the entire length of the wall. The fireplace at the opening is 35" wide, 27" high, and 22" deep. The chimney is fine. Since the fireplace is on the ground floor, the chimney is high, probably 20-25' above the fireplace since it is at the peak of the roof.

I would like to put a stove in the fireplace (partially in the fireplace). An insert would be ok but I do not want anything that will require a fan to push the heat out into the room. If I use a stove, I would like to have most of it sticking out in front of the fireplace so it can radiate heat (we loose power a lot in the winter).

So, some questions:

1-Any suggestions on stoves?

2-Since space is limited because of the fireplace being 16" off the floor, would I need to get a stove that I can remove the back legs so that the rear sits on the bricks, and leave the legs on the front so that they could extend down to the floor?

3-How do I vent the stove? Do I remove the damper and run the stove vent out through the damper opening? Also, since the chimney is about 10" in diameter, do I need to run the stove vent pipe all the way to the top of the chimney, or just inside the bottom of the chimney?

4-How do you seal up the space around the stove vent where it goes through the damper opening?

5-Would I need a stove that vents out the top or back, or does it matter?

I took a picture for reference. Excuse the cardboard taped over the fireplace. A few flies were in the room and my son was afraid they may have come in through the fireplace.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Webwidow · Jan 3, 2008

Quickie answers

1-Any suggestions on stoves?
answer- First step is to bring in your fireplace measurements to your local stove shop. Most everyone loves their stove. You'll get many recommendations. First step is to look local, pick their brains and see what fill fit and in your price range. Most stoves today are all good stoves. Some are just a bit better made than others. Come back with a list of brands that will fit your fireplace and we can help you from there. You will need the height, width and depth of your fireplace. Oh and if your fireplace is pre-fabricated or masonry construction.

2-Since space is limited because of the fireplace being 16" off the floor, would I need to get a stove that I can remove the back legs so that the rear sits on the bricks, and leave the legs on the front so that they could extend down to the floor?
answer-Most folks have raised hearths (off of floor) Many freestanding stoves are designed to fit on the hearth and not extend into the room. Some even have short legs options. Do not take the legs off of a freestanding stove, as it might create too much downward heat and be unsafe.

3-How do I vent the stove?
answer- There are links in here describing exactly how to do a fireplace install

Do I remove the damper and run the stove vent out through the damper opening? Also, since the chimney is about 10" in diameter, do I need to run the stove vent pipe all the way to the top of the chimney, or just inside the bottom of the chimney?
Answer- Yes, yes and yes up to the top

4-How do you seal up the space around the stove vent where it goes through the damper opening?
answer- http://home.altenergystore.com/

5-Would I need a stove that vents out the top or back, or does it matter?
answer- Depends on the stove, typically top vent.

Check out the quick searches on this site (Forum and hearth.com Q&A;searches) for detailed information.
Good luck and enjoy the search

Hogwildz · Jan 3, 2008

bobingersoll said:
Just found the forum. Have looked around a little. I may not use the correct terms in my questions, so please be patient with me.

Here is my quandary: I have had vent free gas logs in my brick fireplace for about 10 years now. Due to the cost of gas, I have decided to get rid of the logs and find another way to use the fireplace as supplemental heat. I am trying to do this as inexpensively as possible. Looks are not terribly critical.

One wall in a downstairs room is totally bricked over. The fireplace is in the center, and 16" above the floor. A 16"X16" (height and depth) brick shelf runs the entire length of the wall. The fireplace at the opening is 35" wide, 27" high, and 22" deep. The chimney is fine. Since the fireplace is on the ground floor, the chimney is high, probably 20-25' above the fireplace since it is at the peak of the roof.

I would like to put a stove in the fireplace (partially in the fireplace). An insert would be ok but I do not want anything that will require a fan to push the heat out into the room. If I use a stove, I would like to have most of it sticking out in front of the fireplace so it can radiate heat (we loose power a lot in the winter).

So, some questions:

1-Any suggestions on stoves?
Budget?

2-Since space is limited because of the fireplace being 16" off the floor, would I need to get a stove that I can remove the back legs so that the rear sits on the bricks, and leave the legs on the front so that they could extend down to the floor?
I don't see this happening, I know of no stove that has 16" legs. Hearth extension will be needed, either at same level as existing, or knock down existing and lay new at floor level or any desired height.

3-How do I vent the stove? Do I remove the damper and run the stove vent out through the damper opening? Yes Also, since the chimney is about 10" in diameter, do I need to run the stove vent pipe all the way to the top of the chimney, or just inside the bottom of the chimney? All the way up for best draft.

4-How do you seal up the space around the stove vent where it goes through the damper opening?
Pc of sheetmetal or other non combustible material paint it black or any other color you can find in hi temp stove paint.

5-Would I need a stove that vents out the top or back, or does it matter?
Back, to run back and then up inside the existing chimney.
Is this a full masonry fireplace or pre-fab?

I took a picture for reference. Excuse the cardboard taped over the fireplace. A few flies were in the room and my son was afraid they may have come in through the fireplace.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Webwidow · Jan 4, 2008

haha so now you have two different answers from two different folks. We both are right, but then maybe I'm righter :-S because I'm not a prehistoric.

1- Most likely you can fit a stove on your hearth and inside of your fireplace. No need to place the stove on the floor or mess with the hearth. We need the measurements of your fireplace.

2- The top vent use is only if the stove is short enough to set under the flue. Again depends on the stove you decide on. The top or rear vent application is not that important. However the less bends in the pipe the better the draft.

paulie · Jan 4, 2008

I love this place...they do make some very nice inserts that will fit, and sit right on your hearth "Lopi" comes to mind...no I don't own one, but have seen them, and they look very nice! Do a little shopping ,you will find just what you need. You DON"T need to remove legs etc....and as mention above, need to know if it is pre fab or not, that will limit you. and Hogwildz is correct, do run a new ss liner strait to the top.and block it, good luck and have with it !! see, now you have three ansewers...wait a few more minutes, and you"ll have a nother one!

bobingersoll · Jan 4, 2008

Thanks for the info folks.

Problem I have is that I have no local supplier. We had one for a few years but they have closed down. I may find some suppliers an hour away.

I have done all my looking on line, as far as styles of inserts and stoves.
As for my budget...well, I would like it to be free, but I am willing to go up to around $500, give or take a bit.

As for my fireplace dimensions, I put them in my initial post. I think it was 35" wide, 27" high, and 22" deep. It is all masonry.

What I don't want to do is any major renovations to the existing fireplace / hearth. I don't want to add brickwork to the existing hearth, extending it out, and don't want to remove any either...if I can avoid it.

This stove here, Englander, available from Home Depot:

Englander 1,000 Sq. Ft. Satin Black 35 to 1 Wood Burning Stove
Model 12-FP
$639.00/EA Each Price includes shipping

Assembled Depth (In Inches) : 14.00 In.
Assembled Height (In Inches) : 26.00
Assembled Weight (In LBS) : 303.00
Assembled Width (In Inches) : 25.25
Blower : No
Efficiency : 63 percent
Heating Area (Sq.Ft.) : 1000.00 Sq. Ft.
Length : 24.375 In.
Maximum BTU : 40000 BTU
Size : 33.75in. H. x 26.375in. W. x 24.375in. D.
Used With : 6in. chimney pipe
Vent Type : Ducted
Width (In.) : 26.375 In.

It looks like it will just fit in my fireplace, barely. Can I even install it if the dimensions are just about an inch of clearance, or less, around it? Will I even have enough room to hook up the the vent pipe? If it is on the verge of being to tall, could I remove the legs, which look to be about 6-8", and make some shorter legs, say 2"? Could I remove the legs and just set it on some bricks?

Now, don't laugh, but I am looking at doing this "on the cheap".

- 28"L x 18"W x 14.5"H
- 25"Tall with Legs
- Volume: 3.3 cu. ft.
- Weight: 63 lbs.
- 5" Stovepipe hole
- For tents 15'x18' +
- Holds heat for 10-12 hrs.

I told you looks don't matter, and this thing, designed for tents, is $299. I could cut and thread legs of any height I needed.

swestall · Jan 4, 2008

That half barrel stove looks like an accident looking for a place to happen. The Englander is OK.
This is your house and the stove becomes a centerpiece; make it pretty as well as functional.
I would definately think of extending the hearth a bit, again, for safety, functionality and LOOKS.
You really should go with a liner as well, the best time to do that is now.

bobingersoll · Jan 4, 2008

swestall said:
You really should go with a liner as well, the best time to do that is now.

A liner? Is that what lines the walls of the chimney? My chimney is about 30 years old, made of red brick, and has what looks like terra cotta lining it.
It looks to be in great shape. The fireplace has not hardly been used at all in 30 years, other than my unvented gas logs. Not any soot covering the inside. Would I still need to line it?

swestall · Jan 4, 2008

Modern stoves need the draft provided by a properly sized liner: which is more or less the size of the flue connector output on the stove. If the liner is too big or too small you won't get the draft you need. A masonary chimney with a clay flue can be OK if it meets the requirement for proper sizing; usually open fireplaces have a much larger flue and you need to line them with a good Stainless Steel liner. I prefer solid liners, but some use the flex type. In addition to drafting considerations, the liner makes it safer and easier to clean/maintain over time.
There are some good threads, etc on this site about sizing liners and etc.
Craig: perhaps you can paste a link in here.

webbie · Jan 4, 2008

The 35 to 1 stove is not suggested due to it being not as controllable as EPA stoves....but it certainly would be vastly better than your existing fireplace or gas logs - vastly better!

NFPA (national fire protection association) guidelines call for lining a flue if the size of your terra-cotta is more than 3x the sq inches of the flue collar of the stove (interior chimney) - or 2x if the chimney is exterior. The usually means that most all 12x12 flues need to be lined, although a rectangular flue may be on the cusp of needing relined. In any case, you need at least a 5 foot stainless tube from the stove up to the first flue tile, and a sheet metal plate to close off the fireplace - see the article on this site (popular articles link) about Block off plates.

On a low budget like $500, you will have a hard time "gittin 'er done" in the proper way....with a decent stove. Some folks have come across used stoves on Craigslist - there was one for about $100 posted in the boston area in another thread here today!

Do not remove legs and install a stove - that is almost a 100% sure fire way to ignite or char the wood framing below your fireplace. If the fireplace is in the basement or on a slab, this may not be the case.....but initial assumptions are that there is framing somewhere below there.

swestall · Jan 5, 2008

I'm with Craig all the way on this one. If you can't afford to do this right with some quality products (stove/liner) my best recommendation would be to put this off and save up to do it right. You will reap the rewards in the end by having a safe installation that will protect you and your family and by getting a significantly better amount of heat from the same wood. Not to mention easier maintenance. Good luck on this project..please consider our recommendations for your safety and comfort.

bobingersoll · Jan 5, 2008

Thanks for all the input folks. I'll take it nice and slow.

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