25-PAH Premature Burn Pot Failure - My fault or the burn pots? (2 burn pots in 4 months)
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OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
Sure! But as I've alluded to my work is not pro by any means, I'm a self taught welder (aside from our required HS shop class) with a $80 harbor freight special lol. So I post these pics not to impress but more so as proof I did it I guess you could say.Pictures please
I finished it up this morning, cleaned it up for a quick photo shoot and then fired the stove up. Been running now for 30+ minutes so far so good. I was in a hurry to get it running so I skipped cleaning the door so no pics of it in operation yet
but maybe I'll shut it down this evening to inspect, and clean the stove up. This side of the house has been in the 50's lately so it's nice to get some heat back in here. My house layout just isn't good for heating from a single stove where my wood stove currently is.
I test fit the main body before welding on the flange pieces. Unfortunately I made it just a smidgen to wide front-to-back and it wouldn't seat properly. But my welds were pretty globy so I ground down the front and back so all the welds were flush. That allowed it to fit in tightly, but it did fit. If I were to do it again I'd pay more attention to the front-to-back dimensions. There is plenty of wiggle room side-side.
Pot is done. I used the same thickness for the flange all the way around so I didn't have to get another size of flat bar. The factory one was wider on the edges, but I didn't see the harm in making it all the wider piece all the way around. I'll pay attention to the ash pile and see how well this is sealing. If not, I'll just put some scrap flat gasket underneath.
Sure! But as I've alluded to my work is not pro by any means, I'm a self taught welder (aside from our required HS shop class) with a $80 harbor freight special lol. So I post these pics not to impress but more so as proof I did it I guess you could say.
I finished it up this morning, cleaned it up for a quick photo shoot and then fired the stove up. Been running now for 30+ minutes so far so good. I was in a hurry to get it running so I skipped cleaning the door so no pics of it in operation yet
View attachment 176076 View attachment 176075
I test fit the main body before welding on the flange pieces. Unfortunately I made it just a smidgen to wide front-to-back and it wouldn't seat properly. But my welds were pretty globy so I ground down the front and back so all the welds were flush. That allowed it to fit in tightly, but it did fit. If I were to do it again I'd pay more attention to the front-to-back dimensions. There is plenty of wiggle room side-side.
View attachment 176080 View attachment 176079 View attachment 176078
Pot is done. I used the same thickness for the flange all the way around so I didn't have to get another size of flat bar. The factory one was wider on the edges, but I didn't see the harm in making it all the wider piece all the way around. I'll pay attention to the ash pile and see how well this is sealing. If not, I'll just put some scrap flat gasket underneath.
View attachment 176077
Nice. Looks fine to me, aesthetics are not real important with a burn pot. Some day I gotta do my own - probably will happen once the current one gets bad enough to quit using. Crank it up and run her hard!
mchasal
Burning Hunk
What do you mean "if"?!?! Aren't you taking orders?
Seriously though, nice job. Looks great and hopefully it will be more durable. I'm only half kidding about the above comment. If yours turns out to hold up well, I bet you could sell a few here, though not sure it would be worth your time.
This particular issue and thread has changed my opinion of Englander. One of the main factors that led me to them was the great support here from Mike. The lack of any comment here is disheartening. I could understand and forgive if there was a batch of substandard steel or something, but the silence is disappointing.
What do you mean "if"?!?! Aren't you taking orders?
Seriously though, nice job. Looks great and hopefully it will be more durable. I'm only half kidding about the above comment. If yours turns out to hold up well, I bet you could sell a few here, though not sure it would be worth your time.
This particular issue and thread has changed my opinion of Englander. One of the main factors that led me to them was the great support here from Mike. The lack of any comment here is disheartening. I could understand and forgive if there was a batch of substandard steel or something, but the silence is disappointing.
I'm in that exact same position. I heard so many good things about Englander and Mike in particular that I really had high hopes that this would be handled differently. I've asked for his comments several times in this thread, and have never gotten a post back, or even a private message. I flat out told Mike I want to be an advocate for their local, American employing company - but I need a little help being able to say it. Nothing.
I really do want to say nice things about my Englander and it's manufacturer, but at this point I cannot recommend them and their products. 4 failed burn-pots in 1 season is ludicrous - if the lemon law applied to stoves I could legally make them buy it back! It's garbage metal, just own up to it! I'm sure I represent a user on the extreme edge of the envelope running my stove wide open 24/7 - but it's "supposed" to be able to do that. I don't know what I'll replace it with when it has a significant failure, but it won't be another Englander. Some attention, an explanation, and a solution would (read - the door is still open!) completely change that, but it's not been the case and I don't expect that to change at this point.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Please be careful welding stainless. It can be very toxic to breathe in. Chromium and nickel can really (*&^*&^*&^ you up.Sure! But as I've alluded to my work is not pro by any means, I'm a self taught welder (aside from our required HS shop class) with a $80 harbor freight special lol. So I post these pics not to impress but more so as proof I did it I guess you could say.
I finished it up this morning, cleaned it up for a quick photo shoot and then fired the stove up. Been running now for 30+ minutes so far so good. I was in a hurry to get it running so I skipped cleaning the door so no pics of it in operation yet
View attachment 176076 View attachment 176075
I test fit the main body before welding on the flange pieces. Unfortunately I made it just a smidgen to wide front-to-back and it wouldn't seat properly. But my welds were pretty globy so I ground down the front and back so all the welds were flush. That allowed it to fit in tightly, but it did fit. If I were to do it again I'd pay more attention to the front-to-back dimensions. There is plenty of wiggle room side-side.
View attachment 176080 View attachment 176079 View attachment 176078
Pot is done. I used the same thickness for the flange all the way around so I didn't have to get another size of flat bar. The factory one was wider on the edges, but I didn't see the harm in making it all the wider piece all the way around. I'll pay attention to the ash pile and see how well this is sealing. If not, I'll just put some scrap flat gasket underneath.
View attachment 176077
Nice job. If it works, its perfect.
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
What do you mean "if"?!?! Aren't you taking orders?
Seriously though, nice job. Looks great and hopefully it will be more durable. I'm only half kidding about the above comment. If yours turns out to hold up well, I bet you could sell a few here, though not sure it would be worth your time.
This particular issue and thread has changed my opinion of Englander. One of the main factors that led me to them was the great support here from Mike. The lack of any comment here is disheartening. I could understand and forgive if there was a batch of substandard steel or something, but the silence is disappointing.
Thanks, and so far it's working well except for one thing. The flange on one side which did angle upward slightly after welding is allowing some air to bypass. That area on the cradle is void of any ash accumulation. Not much different than one of my factory burn pots which also slightly warped and allowed air to bypass. Visibly, in a bit over a days time it looks like its burning fine, but I may place a gasket underneath to seal the small air leak like I did with the factory pot. I just kept the scrap flat gasket from the ash pan when I had to put a thicker gasket on, so I have some scrap laying around still.
Surprisingly it was cheaper than a factory pot to make, even buying new drill bits, wire brushes, and a pack of welding rods a lot more than I needed for just 1. Not counting my time of course, but for my own use I don't count that anyhow. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to making another, but until middle of April I am extremely busy anyhow so any chance of making another probably wouldn't be for a little while. I'd want to get a but more long term use out of it too to make sure it'll work well. If this is the main problem with your stove, I don't mind trying to help out. They are a budget stove that still heats well, aside from some other issues that are discussion for a different time. FWIW Englander did say that could give me a bit of a discount on a new burnpot but only if I called in (I was talking via email). I confirmed that a new burn pot came with 0 warranty, so regardless of discount they can keep their junk metal no warranty items and I'll keep a few bucks too! Maybe it's even possible why Mike hasn't responded is because they are well aware of the issue with no resolution except to continually replace pots (a bit of a money making scheme eh?). Factory assembled I doubt they have much more than $10-15 in their pots.
I found it hard to really photo the stove in use without it just being a big glob of white/yellow. Tried shorter and longer exposures, etc. But I found the long exposures produced some cool fireworks when the pellets dropped in! Those photos were taken at heat of just 1 or 2. Ever since I warmed that side of the house back up I mainly just run it low since I have 2 stoves going.
I used 304 stainless which I know isn't the highest grade of SS but hopefully good enough for a long time or even life of the stove. I'd imagine it will outlast the rest of the stove. I couldn't get a small quantity of 308 electrodes so I stumbled into 312-16 stainless alloy electrodes which seemed to be used for all grades of steel and they actually welded pretty good with my crappy welder. The pot itself I was able to make with 3 sizes of flat bar...
3/4" x 3/16 for the flange
2-1/2" x 1/8 for the side facing the chute
2" x 1/8 for all other pieces (double stacked for the tall side)
I might still be looking to replace the pellet stove with a long burning woodstove, but for now at least it is up and running and if I sell it I feel much better that future users won't have to deal with the burn pot fiasco.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
If you want to do more than a few pots, make up a prototype of the plates (or a drawing) and take it to your local waterjet house. They could cut stainless plates all day long for you for very cheap. There is no reason to drill those holes, as the tolerances can be (.10-20") and still look/work great.
Odds are they can get the materials cheaper than you as well.
Odds are they can get the materials cheaper than you as well.
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
Yes, if one were to mass manufacture I am sure there is more than one way to do this, and more efficiently than I did. However for me to just make one was very inexpensive. I have no 'local waterjet house' and even if they could get cheaper metal the difference in cost would probably be less than the cost of me driving to them. I spent less than $20 on metal and it was all cut to size aside from the flange piece that I was going too cut myself after I measured the assembled box. I did call the couple closest machine shops I could find that weren't more than a few towns away, and there 'minimum charge' was a lot more than I wanted to spend, at least for one!
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
A day and half of the pot sitting on gasket to fix the little bit of air leak. Looks like that did the trick, nice even ash pile now. Seems to be burning pretty well.
So - how's she running this year? Ready to make up another pot? I'm probably a half ton into my season - I'm back on the pellets for primary heat with the cost of propane coming back up. I fried right through the front wall on my best burn pot, and so now I'm running my second best pot. It's working ok, but as we all know, it's only a matter of time before she's roasted, especially once it gets cold and I really crank on the stove.
Seriously - I'd pay for a good stainless pot, if you're at all interested.
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
The stainless burnpot is holding up just great! Its filthy looking and discolored but no signs of any scaling or warping or anything. On its third season though that first season was pretty brief since it was already about spring when I made it. Already got a ton and a half burned - no propane this year and I haven't fired up the woodstove yet. Stove on the other hand isnt doing as well as last year, but might just be the oak. I disconnected it earlier when I had a home appraisal, since its ugly, goes across a room and through a boarded up looking window. I was lazy and figured I'd see how it did without the OAK. Well I don't even know if its that or not but my major cleaning intervals are much shorter it seems, already used the leaf blower and deep clean 3 times. PITA. Next chance I get, hopefully within a week or so, going to try and hook the OAK back up. It burned much better last season, and the OAK is the only obvious difference. But I did leave it dirty all summer and was pretty caked on. Not sure if crud built up too much in inaccessible regions, hope its just the difference of OAK.
Sorry bud... I'm not sure if I really have the time right now for fabricating stuff. I've got a couple big projects going on right now renovating the old side of my house all DIY plus my subaru is needing struts, exhaust work, and more importantly new rack and pinion. My plow tractor is also down right now. Not to mention Christmas and a long list of normal stuff lol. I don't have any more stainless, I only bought about exactly what I needed.
Sorry bud... I'm not sure if I really have the time right now for fabricating stuff. I've got a couple big projects going on right now renovating the old side of my house all DIY plus my subaru is needing struts, exhaust work, and more importantly new rack and pinion. My plow tractor is also down right now. Not to mention Christmas and a long list of normal stuff lol. I don't have any more stainless, I only bought about exactly what I needed.
No worries at all - I figured it was a long shot.
With respect to the OAK - crack a window and see if the burn cleans up. If the house is sealed tight enough that it's struggling to pull in enough air (unlikely) then you might be able to appreciate a change when you kill the vacuum. If it does, then you know A. you have a really nicely sealed up home and B. that you need your OAK hooked up!
I'm doing my deep clean still about once a ton, so 5-6wks. That consists of removing the cleanout ports ( why didn't they make those just drop in, instead of those miserable little machine screws), banging on the inside of the stove with a wooden hammer, pulling out as much as I can, and sucking it all up. Honestly - I never clean my vent piping anymore - I only have about 24" of horizontal run and 30" of vertical run, and that stays real clean on its own.
I did learn my lesson about leaving the vent and oak open to atmosphere on a prior season, the stove get pretty rusty inside. This year, I taped off those vent and OAK, and kept the door open all season. Much better.
OhioBurner©
Minister of Fire
Oh this house is super leaky, one reason I always figured the OAK wasn't really needed as the wind blows in regardless lol! It takes a couple weeks for it to start getting plugged up and my house has been in the 50's and low 60s lately so leaving a window open for a couple weeks isnt on my list 
Oh but thanks for reminding me about the hammer - I have been forgetting to do that this year. I wish I had a interior diagram of what it looks like behind the stove back, I have no idea how the exhaust gases meander through and get to the exhaust port. I think I could better clean it if I new what all those channels looked like. There was a year (or two?) where I did not use the leaf blower nor had a small hose on the vac or long flexy brush and just got what I could get out by banging and vacuum at the clean out ports. One time I tried probing back in there after cleaning it, and found there was a ton of ash just sitting on the bottom in several inches from the right hand clean out port. There was a lot there, like 2-3 inches deep and all the across. It was pretty loose, but the shop vac in the cleanout wasn't getting it. Now I use a combo of the leaf blower on the exhaust, a small tube attached to the ash vac, and also a long handled flexy brush cut down to fit into those channels back there. It's kind of a process. And my exhaust goes up a chimney, 3 90's, 2-3 foot horizontal and 15 ish foot vertical. I wish this thing was a simpler install.
Oh but thanks for reminding me about the hammer - I have been forgetting to do that this year. I wish I had a interior diagram of what it looks like behind the stove back, I have no idea how the exhaust gases meander through and get to the exhaust port. I think I could better clean it if I new what all those channels looked like. There was a year (or two?) where I did not use the leaf blower nor had a small hose on the vac or long flexy brush and just got what I could get out by banging and vacuum at the clean out ports. One time I tried probing back in there after cleaning it, and found there was a ton of ash just sitting on the bottom in several inches from the right hand clean out port. There was a lot there, like 2-3 inches deep and all the across. It was pretty loose, but the shop vac in the cleanout wasn't getting it. Now I use a combo of the leaf blower on the exhaust, a small tube attached to the ash vac, and also a long handled flexy brush cut down to fit into those channels back there. It's kind of a process. And my exhaust goes up a chimney, 3 90's, 2-3 foot horizontal and 15 ish foot vertical. I wish this thing was a simpler install.Similar threads
