Progress Hybrid back puff - help!

Coalescent · Mar 19, 2016

Hello,

I've been enjoying my new Progress Hybrid and have been breaking it in since Friday when we had it installed. A series of small fires, did my best to follow the seasoning procedure.

Tonight I had a bit of a scare, not sure what I did wrong. I caused what seemed like a pretty substantial back puff.

Here's what happened:

I loaded more wood than I've put in it before because it's supposed to drop to the mid-teens tonight, and I wanted it to run all night. So far my burns have been 3-5 hours, but I'm not loading it up anywhere near the top.

Tonight I loaded it up on a bed of coals, let it run for 15 minutes or so, damping it down maybe a third to keep it from heating up too fast. I think I might have engaged the cat a little too soon, I'm not certain.

After I let it run on 1/2 damp with the cat engaged, I dropped it down to 1/4 for a few minutes, then shut it.

The secondaries kicked off for a few minutes, then everything went black for maybe 15, 20 minutes. Then a small event that I'm certain was a back puff occurred. Cat engaged, damper fully closed, stove top was maybe around 500 degrees (meter on the cast iron near the top vent exit).

Everything went back to black, and then a few minutes later a much louder one occurred, and it made the mechanism up near the top, where the cat is, with the three slabs of soapstone on it, jump noticeably and let a wood smoke smell into the room.

I opened the damper a little, which immediately set off the secondaries. Stove temp rose, seems to be hanging around 600. The damper is barely open, just a nudge.

Not sure what I did wrong here, but I'd rather not repeat this performance. I'm guessing I need to check the cat once the burn finishes? I'm worried with the damper open the temp will get into an over-fire range, but it hasn't yet... still staying around 600.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

begreen · Mar 19, 2016

Coalescent said:
I dropped it down to 1/4 for a few minutes, then shut it.

That was a bit too early. The fire got snuffed out, but there were enough coals to reignite the fire eventually. As the wood gases accumulated a small flame ignited them causing the puffback. Let the fire engage better and close the air down a bit less so that the flames get lazy, but not out.

Coalescent · Mar 19, 2016

begreen said:
That was a bit too early. The fire got snuffed out, but there were enough coals to reignite the fire eventually. As the wood gases accumulated a small flame ignited them causing the puffback. Let the fire engage better and close the air down a bit less so that the flames get lazy, but not out.

Thank you. I'm new to all this, so my adrenaline is going pretty well right now. Reading the Woodstock PDF about back puffing. What you're saying makes sense, as soon as I damped it down all the way the wood went out... secondaries kicked in for just a few minutes, then they went out too.

Coalescent · Mar 19, 2016

What are the signs I should look for to know when I can close the damper to its minimum setting? I'm leery of turning it down again, now...

Edit: Never mind, I found reference to exactly what happened to me in the Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid thread. Lots of good info there... if anyone else happens upon this post and is looking for more information, start at #422 in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/woodstock-soapstone-progress-hybrid-stove.88516/page-17

toddnic · Mar 20, 2016

Let the fire get going a little bit stronger before turning the catalytic combustor on and shutting down the air. We've all experienced what you are describing. I've actually experienced it opening the door to the stove (now that was fun

). The Progress Hybrid is an amazing woodstove that will serve your families heating needs for many years. Also, your catalytic combustor should be fine. A back puff should not affect it at all.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

When opening the door, wow! I bet that was an experience. !!!

It is reassuring to know this isn't unheard of and didn't damage my brand new stove. I will be exercising more caution when loading up for a low overnight burn.

I'm having great fun learning how to operate my new stove. This is all brand new to me! My parents had an old smoke dragon during my teen years, but that was half a lifetime ago now.

quotejso · Mar 20, 2016

how long is your chimney I had a few backpuffs untill I insulated mine its just over 20 feet.

Sprinter · Mar 20, 2016

This is pretty common, especially when just learning your stove. It happened to my wife early on when she turned the air down a little too soon. And it's not just cat stoves, it will happen to non-cats too. It's pretty scary, but now you know how to prevent it. Just learning curve stuff, so you're not alone.

branchburner · Mar 20, 2016

My experience so far with the Absolute Steel is that if I try to get to a low burn by shutting back the air early in the burn cycle, I will lose all flame in the firebox for a bit. This has in fact resulted in the occasional sudden re-ignition within the firebox, a little burst of flame, but no actual backpuffing that you can smell, or that shakes the stove that you hear (sometimes I can hear the faint "poof" of the min-burst of flame).

This would also happen in my downdraft Harman, which also has a bypass damper. As with that stove, I always make sure with a damped-down fire to open the door very slowly if at all, to allow a bit of air to seep in and light off the flames in the box, and strengthen the flow of air, to prevent a puff of smoke coming back out the door

begreen · Mar 20, 2016

Coalescent said:
What are the signs I should look for to know when I can close the damper to its minimum setting? I'm leery of turning it down again, now...

Edit: Never mind, I found reference to exactly what happened to me in the Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid thread. Lots of good info there... if anyone else happens upon this post and is looking for more information, start at #422 in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/woodstock-soapstone-progress-hybrid-stove.88516/page-17

Watch the flame, turn down the air to the point where the flame gets lazy, but doesn't go out. And try to burn only dry, fully seasoned wood. Poorly seasoned wood has a greater tendency to snuff out if it doesn't have lots of air for combustion.

JA600L · Mar 20, 2016

It is normal to run these stoves with a black box and the fire completely out at times. You may have gotten to that point too quick.

It way have smouldered until all the moisture was out of the wood and lit up.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

quotejso said:
how long is your chimney I had a few backpuffs untill I insulated mine its just over 20 feet.

My chimney is 30 feet, but it is getting insulated next week--not insulated yet. Smooth heavy-duty SS liner, chimney is in the exact center of the main structure.

JA600L · Mar 20, 2016

How is the stove heating the house?

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

begreen said:
Watch the flame, turn down the air to the point where the flame gets lazy, but doesn't go out. And try to burn only dry, fully seasoned wood. Poorly seasoned wood has a greater tendency to snuff out if it doesn't have lots of air for combustion.

I have kiln-dried wood (guaranteed lower than 20% MC) being delivered Tuesday, but right now I'm burning some wood I was given that I was told was fully seasoned. So far it seems like some of it is very dry, while other pieces are definitely not so very dry. I'm looking forward to having consistently lower MC wood so I can figure out what I'm doing vs. what the weird wood may be doing.

And I've been taking your advice, being sure not to snuff the flames out entirely. In fact when I damp almost completely down, they sort of dance between the firewood and the secondary chamber up top, it's quite the show.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

JA600L, I do think you're right--the wood may be part of the issue here. It's wood that was gifted to me and some of it definitely has more moisture.

The stove is heating the house absolutely wonderfully. It fell to 18 degrees F last night, and right now it's just below freezing, about 30 degrees and falling. I'm at my desk at the far end of the finished attic from the stairwell, and it's 70 degrees according to my AccuRite thermometer.

I'm so glad to be rid of the propane heaters. They were bleeding me dry and they didn't keep the home anywhere near this comfortable. What has surprised me are the two main bedrooms, which are over the living room/dining room (stove is in the living room). I'm not sure how the heat is getting up there, but they have been consistently far warmer than the propane heaters ever got them (propane heaters are both on the first floor, too).

Sprinter · Mar 20, 2016

The first year of burning is always the worst. You're trying to figure out your stove, and it's almost impossible to buy truly seasoned wood no matter what the supplier says. If it's really kiln dried, you may have a better chance. Meanwhile, proper operation of the stove depends heavily on the quality of the wood.

Depending on the actual MC of the kiln dried stuff, it may help to mix that with some of the other. Mixing it with "biobricks" or some other compressed wood product may help too. Unless you have enough kiln dried to last the season by itself.

i'm not sure if it was mentioned, but do you have a moisture meter? That will be invaluable at least for the first couple of years.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

Thank you, Sprinter. I'm probably keeping the home warmer than it needs to be, and my burn lengths haven't even come remotely close to what I've read about on the forums. I'm hoping that's due to the quality of the wood I have right now rather than some other factor... but I'm sure my own greenness is also at work here.

The sweep recommended this place to me, says you can drive by and see the kilns going year-round. They claim to guarantee less than 20% MC, so I hope that's truthful. They're well-liked around here. I am in the process of starting my own supply, but I have no illusions about it being ready for next winter.

Sprinter · Mar 20, 2016

Coalescent said:
They claim to guarantee less than 20% MC, so I hope that's truthful. They're well-liked around here. I am in the process of starting my own supply, but I have no illusions about it being ready for next winter.

Are you going to have enough for the season? If so, you'll be set. Get a moisture meter if you don't have one and split open some pieces and stick the probes into the fresh split.

Sprinter · Mar 20, 2016

Coalescent said:
I am in the process of starting my own supply, but I have no illusions about it being ready for next winter.

Nearly forgot that part. What species of wood are you starting for next year? Some species could very well be ready next year. Some other members here familiar with your area can help there. I have some softwoods that dry surprisingly fast, like 8 months from green if cut and, split and stacked properly. Splitting small can help a lot, keep adequate air circulating through the stack.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

Sprinter said:
Are you going to have enough for the season? If so, you'll be set. Get a moisture meter if you don't have one and split open some pieces and stick the probes into the fresh split.

I am so inexperienced, I don't really have any idea if I will have enough for next season. I purchased 4 cords in the hope that will get me through. I can buy a couple more over the spring/summer if needs be. At least with this cold snap I should have the opportunity to try the wood out.

JA600L · Mar 20, 2016

Coalescent said:
Thank you, Sprinter. I'm probably keeping the home warmer than it needs to be, and my burn lengths haven't even come remotely close to what I've read about on the forums. I'm hoping that's due to the quality of the wood I have right now rather than some other factor... but I'm sure my own greenness is also at work here.

The sweep recommended this place to me, says you can drive by and see the kilns going year-round. They claim to guarantee less than 20% MC, so I hope that's truthful. They're well-liked around here. I am in the process of starting my own supply, but I have no illusions about it being ready for next winter.

What kind of burn times, temperatures, air settings are you seeing?

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

JA600L said:
What kind of burn times, temperatures, air settings are you seeing?

Bear in mind that I'm just starting out here, stove was installed this past Friday. I've been running it continuously since then, starting new fires from the coals.

I've had two fires for 5-6 hours, the rest have been shorter (and smaller). I'd say average of 3 hours.

I used 8 splits of various sizes for the long fire, raked the coals forward toward the glass and placed a larger split in the back. With my largest load, the one during which the backpuffing occurred, the stove top temp (thermometer is located to the right of the flue collar) hit 600 and remained there for a while. Most of the burns, after they get going stove top temps hovers between 450-550. I think the highest I've had the stove was 620 during one fire when I was experimenting. The thermometer on the flue seems to always show 250 after I engage the cat, though sometimes it will show 300 if the damper is more open.

I seem to have a strong draft. I don't have any other draft to compare it to, but the fires take off very quickly. I can hardly put new splits on the coals without them lighting moments after they're laid down. The ones that seem to be less dry are the only ones that take a little longer, they smoke immediately and catch shortly after. Installer mentioned how nice and strong the draft was.

As a result, I've been trying to damp things down. After the back puffing, I've avoided completely lowering the damper all the way. I'll go down all the way and raise it perhaps 1/8 inch, that seems to do well. But the fire often remains active and I don't see a very long burn. I'm having to get up in the middle of the night to add wood, which will be coals by the time I get up the next morning.

JA600L · Mar 20, 2016

Coalescent said:
Bear in mind that I'm just starting out here, stove was installed this past Friday. I've been running it continuously since then, starting new fires from the coals.

I've had two fires for 5-6 hours, the rest have been shorter (and smaller). I'd say average of 3 hours.

I used 8 splits of various sizes for the long fire, raked the coals forward toward the glass and placed a larger split in the back. With my largest load, the one during which the backpuffing occurred, the stove top temp (thermometer is located to the right of the flue collar) hit 600 and remained there for a while. Most of the burns, after they get going stove top temps hovers between 450-550. I think the highest I've had the stove was 620 during one fire when I was experimenting. The thermometer on the flue seems to always show 250 after I engage the cat, though sometimes it will show 300 if the damper is more open.

I seem to have a strong draft. I don't have any other draft to compare it to, but the fires take off very quickly. I can hardly put new splits on the coals without them lighting moments after they're laid down. The ones that seem to be less dry are the only ones that take a little longer, they smoke immediately and catch shortly after. Installer mentioned how nice and strong the draft was.

As a result, I've been trying to damp things down. After the back puffing, I've avoided completely lowering the damper all the way. I'll go down all the way and raise it perhaps 1/8 inch, that seems to do well. But the fire often remains active and I don't see a very long burn. I'm having to get up in the middle of the night to add wood, which will be coals by the time I get up the next morning.

Do you have a key damper installed? I would close the air the whole way. Just do it after the temperatures settle a bit. If the flame goes out it doesn't matter as long as the temperature doesn't start diving (cat stall).

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

Sprinter said:
Nearly forgot that part. What species of wood are you starting for next year? Some species could very well be ready next year. Some other members here familiar with your area can help there. I have some softwoods that dry surprisingly fast, like 8 months from green if cut and, split and stacked properly. Splitting small can help a lot, keep adequate air circulating through the stack.

I honestly don't know. I'm learning all of this on the fly, and I'm not familiar with identifying species. Buying a Fiskars x27 and a maul, still figuring out what chainsaw to purchase. Looks like a Stihl is a good choice.

I have 5 heavily wooded acres and a lot of deadwood, both standing and dropped. I've pulled some of it to a common area where I intend to cut and split. Much of it is too big to move without cutting it first.

There are a lot of maples around here. Not very many pines. Most of these trees are deciduous. I'm new to the area as well as to the home. I have a friend down the road who cuts a lot, I'm planning to learn from him how to identify trees.

Coalescent · Mar 20, 2016

JA600L said:
Do you have a key damper installed? I would close the air the whole way. Just do it after the temperatures settle a bit. If the flame goes out it doesn't matter as long as the temperature doesn't start diving (cat stall).

I do not have a key damper installed. I've been leery of trying to turn the air down after my backpuffing incident last night, but it sounds like I need to jump back on that horse and give 'er a whirl again...

One thing I will say, this stove is putting out the heat. The family room is toasty warm all the time, and the rest of my home is warmer than it's been with these outside temps with the MUCH more expensive propane/electric heat we've been using all winter.

Family room on the first floor (where lies the stove) is 79 degrees, far side of the finished attic (3rd floor) is 70 degrees.

Progress Hybrid back puff - help!

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