Building new full log home need advice on heating with wood.

TrishH · Apr 1, 2016

Hi all,

We are building a log home in northern WI.
Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor,
3000sq ft approx.
We want to avoid forced air if at all possible.
Also, need to consider the possibility of power outages during heating season.
Would a wood stove in basement, with vents in floors and ceilings heat the whole house?
Any recommendations? I have looked at the Kuma Sequoia, Harman Oakwood and Yukon Eagle as potential stoves but have had difficulty finding many reviews.
Would a wood furnace work without ducting, would it be damaged if the blowers were disconnected, would the blowers work (and help) without ducting?
Does anyone know of any formulas/guidance for placement and sizing of vents?
Any information on how to create natural air flow through building?
Any alternatives or suggestions?

All help and advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

begreen · Apr 1, 2016

Did you check with the bank and insurance company to verify wood can be the primary or only heat source?

Heating from a basement with a wood stove can have mixed results. The basement should be fully insulated and with a good and short convection path for the warmed air to get upstairs. This usually means the stove centrally placed near an open stairwell. Cutting return vents around the perimeter may help, but check local firecode and insurance requirements first to see if they are allowed. If allowed they may be required to have fusible-link fire dampers in them. Also, will the basement have an easy outside access for bringing in wood. Hauling it from upstairs will get old. Of the stoves mentioned I would lean toward the Kuma.

A wood furnace like the Yukon may be a decent alternative. You might also want to look at the PSG Max Caddy and the Drolet Tundra. We have a boiler room forum here that also covers furnaces if you want to research wood furnaces.

Simonkenton · Apr 1, 2016

In the event that you have not lived in a log home before, I will tell you that they have unique characteristics. The thermal mass of all the logs, the sheer weight and mass of the wood, stores heat. Much more so than in a frame house, it tends to stay at the temperature it is at.
So if you run your wood stove all day and have that place up to 72 degrees, you may be able to let the stove go out and the house will remain warm for quite a while.

On the other hand if you went out of town for a few days in the winter, upon your return you will have a cold house and it will take many hours to heat it up.
We live in the NC mountains in a log home, we have a wood stove of course but also a wall mounted gas heater. When going out of town in winter we set that thing on 55. Damn, it takes forever to heat up a 40 degree log cabin.

Woody Stover · Apr 2, 2016

Simonkenton said:
if you run your wood stove all day and have that place up to 72 degrees, you may be able to let the stove go out and the house will remain warm for quite a while

Maybe not as long in Hayward, WI.

But if the air-sealing and insulation is very good, that will help for sure. It will also help if the opening from the basement is large and comes up in the middle of the first floor, and if they don't have vaulted ceilings on the first floor and can keep the heat downstairs somehow, letting the bedrooms upstairs get a little cooler. Or maybe run a small space heater upstairs if kids are hanging out there...

JA600L · Apr 2, 2016

Do you have trees on your property to harvest? Consider a 3 cuft or larger firebox. Go to the EPA's website and look for high efficiency numbers as these will save you on wood usage and give more heat per load of wood. Many stoves offer over 80% efficiency.

kennyp2339 · Apr 2, 2016

As a potential buyer of a log home myself I have a few things I need to do and a few questions to ask.
The log house I am looking at has a basement (poured foundation, billko doors for egress) The main floor is living space is open / closed but a central located stone fire place in there, the upstairs has three bedrooms, the hall way between the master (on one side and (2) bedrooms on the other) is cathedral ceiling over looking the downstairs living room and fire place.
Its obvious that I want either to install an insert (bk princess) or extend my hearth and install my existing BK princess free standing stove)
The cabin is engineered cut logs "6 wide by 7" high rounded cut *estimated, the roof is 2x6 construction joist type, no attic, ceiling (open area's have the pine board ceilings, the bedrooms are sheet rocked)
My concern was the R-value of the logs, but the more I learn about these types of homes, my worries are easing due to the engineered cuts and uniform wood (no chinking involved) the logs will act like thermal storage.
My main points of efficiency for this house will be good windows and a good roof system. I will replace all the existing windows with Anderson storm, new front door, the roof which is shingle type will be a total tear off, re - insulate between joists, then install
3" of foam board, tape all seams, then plywood, ice water shield and finally a metal roof, I'm shooting for r-50 - 60 ranged.

Simonkenton · Apr 2, 2016

kenny you read all kinds of reports on the r factor of log walls.
I have built 7 log houses, and have lived in log houses since 1988. Just completed a log addition onto my log house here in the NC mountains.
My logs, like yours, are 6 inches thick.
I have read that logs have an r factor of r 1.5 to the inch. Which would make our walls just r 9! The code here is r 19 on exterior walls.
Repeatedly over the past decade there have been reports that they are going to mandate minimum log wall thickness of 8 inches.

I don't buy it. My house is up on a mountaintop. Very heavily forested.
In the winter, when the leaves are gone, the wind will blow all night up here at 40 mph. Happens about twice a month. This, on an 8 degree night.
It is cold up here! This house takes a beating from the weather like no other house I have ever lived in.
Yet, it is the most snug and warm house I have ever lived in.

I don't know how they calculate r factor but if they think 6 inches of logs is r 9 they are wrong.
If the crack between the logs is well sealed and you have the good ceiling insulation, windows etc as you described, you will be very comfortable in that house.

Mike M. · Apr 2, 2016

Will you be spending much time in the basement? If the answer is yes then a stove down there makes sense. Consider one chimney chase with 2 pipes installed. This way you can have a stove in the basement and have one on the 1st floor. This will give you flexibility in heating for the many different weather conditions you will see. I assume you will use the home year round?

xman23 · Apr 2, 2016

I don't know if your saying you don't want a permeant automatic heating, but your insurance co will want it. You can do something cheep and reliable, maintenance free, electric baseboard. My well insulated cabin has electric baseboard, and its perfect when we are not here. If the plan is to heat with wood, put it on the main living floor. With a open floor plan it works well. it should heat the bedrooms above if you can move the cold air down. The question I have, do you know what it takes to heat with wood. I've had a few all night power outages in the winter. Having the stove was great.

weatherguy · Apr 2, 2016

I was going to suggest two stoves also. Put your main stove in the living area and something like the big englander in the basement for the cold snaps.

zig · Apr 3, 2016

You'll use ceiling fans and such to move heat and cool I'm guessing so if your going to build a log home, make sure you include a generator. If you have gas available or use it for hot water, it's much better and cheaper to include one in the build than to add on later. No Nat. gas? Put in LP. $4500 is a lot of money but what's it going to cost as an afterthought?

mark cline · Apr 3, 2016

We are building a 2100 sq ft custom loghome , R65 roof consisting of 9" of polyisocyinate foam board , metal roof , 10" average log walls, huge expanses of windows. Basement constructed of insulated concrete forms , 8" poured concrete , 2 1/2 " foam outside , 31/2 " foam inside. Radiant floor throughout the basement and first floor. Second floor is an open loft. Fisher Grandma Bear in basement and Hearthstone Mansfield up stairs , both into a 2 flue, lined , stone chimney . We have yet to live there full time , but in the winter it takes 3 days to bring it up to temp, from 45-50 degrees. As the time goes by over the 3 days you see yourself using less and less wood to hold a 70 degree house. 5 ceiling fans move the heat down to the floor level from the 26' ridge beam and 23' in the kitchen dining room. The loghome has the volume of a 4900 sq ft house , so we needed a way to move warm air from the far side of the house down to the basement , then across and back up the stair well. We put a large vent in the kitchen island , down into my work shop then across the brew haus and recreation room to the stairwell. It works well and only need the Fisher in the basement on the coldest of days . Keep your air flowing in a convective loop and you should be able to heat it with at least a 3 cu ft. stove.

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

begreen said:
Did you check with the bank and insurance company to verify wood can be the primary or only heat source?

Heating from a basement with a wood stove can have mixed results. The basement should be fully insulated and with a good and short convection path for the warmed air to get upstairs. This usually means the stove centrally placed near an open stairwell. Cutting return vents around the perimeter may help, but check local firecode and insurance requirements first to see if they are allowed. If allowed they may be required to have fusible-link fire dampers in them. Also, will the basement have an easy outside access for bringing in wood. Hauling it from upstairs will get old. Of the stoves mentioned I would lean toward the Kuma.

A wood furnace like the Yukon may be a decent alternative. You might also want to look at the PSG Max Caddy and the Drolet Tundra. We have a boiler room forum here that also covers furnaces if you want to research wood furnaces.

TrishH said:
Hi all,

We are building a log home in northern WI.
Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor,
3000sq ft approx.
We want to avoid forced air if at all possible.
Also, need to consider the possibility of power outages during heating season.
Would a wood stove in basement, with vents in floors and ceilings heat the whole house?
Any recommendations? I have looked at the Kuma Sequoia, Harman Oakwood and Yukon Eagle as potential stoves but have had difficulty finding many reviews.
Would a wood furnace work without ducting, would it be damaged if the blowers were disconnected, would the blowers work (and help) without ducting?
Does anyone know of any formulas/guidance for placement and sizing of vents?
Any information on how to create natural air flow through building?
Any alternatives or suggestions?

All help and advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

JA600L said:
Do you have trees on your property to harvest? Consider a 3 cuft or larger firebox. Go to the EPA's website and look for high efficiency numbers as these will save you on wood usage and give more heat per load of wood. Many stoves offer over 80% efficiency.

Thanks!
We have 50 well wooded acres at this time there is lots of standing dead to help get us started.

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

There is no bank involved. Thanks for the advice on checking with the fire marshal and insurance. I will have to do that.
We do have access to the basement from outside.
We have friends in the area that have a wood stove as their only source of heat but their house is only basement and first floor. Their stove is also no longer available.

The stairs are open to the basement. I will have to ask our builders about the basement insulation. The logs are full log hand peeled and scribed, not milled, they range from 24" down to 18" the roof will be well insulated.

I should also say that the house plans include a fireplace in the great room of the first floor. My husband wants a fireplace that does not look like just a stove inserted into a brick or rock chimney. Are there any fireplaces (needs to be zero clearance) that you would recommend that look good but also produce a reasonable amount of heat? If we can get a reasonable amount of heat from a fireplace in conjunction with a stove in the basement would this be a good solution.

I just found some good reviews on the IDEAL Steel Hybrid wood stove does anyone have any more info on that stove?

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

mark cline said:
We are building a 2100 sq ft custom loghome , R65 roof consisting of 9" of polyisocyinate foam board , metal roof , 10" average log walls, huge expanses of windows. Basement constructed of insulated concrete forms , 8" poured concrete , 2 1/2 " foam outside , 31/2 " foam inside. Radiant floor throughout the basement and first floor. Second floor is an open loft. Fisher Grandma Bear in basement and Hearthstone Mansfield up stairs , both into a 2 flue, lined , stone chimney . We have yet to live there full time , but in the winter it takes 3 days to bring it up to temp, from 45-50 degrees. As the time goes by over the 3 days you see yourself using less and less wood to hold a 70 degree house. 5 ceiling fans move the heat down to the floor level from the 26' ridge beam and 23' in the kitchen dining room. The loghome has the volume of a 4900 sq ft house , so we needed a way to move warm air from the far side of the house down to the basement , then across and back up the stair well. We put a large vent in the kitchen island , down into my work shop then across the brew haus and recreation room to the stairwell. It works well and only need the Fisher in the basement on the coldest of days . Keep your air flowing in a convective loop and you should be able to heat it with at least a 3 cu ft. stove.

Thank you for the information. Do you have any formula or guidelines for how and where to place vents?

begreen · Apr 4, 2016

TrishH said:
I should also say that the house plans include a fireplace in the great room of the first floor. My husband wants a fireplace that does not look like just a stove inserted into a brick or rock chimney. Are there any fireplaces (needs to be zero clearance) that you would recommend that look good but also produce a reasonable amount of heat? If we can get a reasonable amount of heat from a In conjunction with a stove in the basement would this be a good solution

There are many good EPA phase 2 zero clearance fireplaces that heat well an look sharp. Good brands to look at are Kozy, RSF, Quadrafire (7100), Pacific Energy, SBI (Osburn, Flame and Valcourt), Northstar, etc..

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

mark cline said:
We are building a 2100 sq ft custom loghome , R65 roof consisting of 9" of polyisocyinate foam board , metal roof , 10" average log walls, huge expanses of windows. Basement constructed of insulated concrete forms , 8" poured concrete , 2 1/2 " foam outside , 31/2 " foam inside. Radiant floor throughout the basement and first floor. Second floor is an open loft. Fisher Grandma Bear in basement and Hearthstone Mansfield up stairs , both into a 2 flue, lined , stone chimney . We have yet to live there full time , but in the winter it takes 3 days to bring it up to temp, from 45-50 degrees. As the time goes by over the 3 days you see yourself using less and less wood to hold a 70 degree house. 5 ceiling fans move the heat down to the floor level from the 26' ridge beam and 23' in the kitchen dining room. The loghome has the volume of a 4900 sq ft house , so we needed a way to move warm air from the far side of the house down to the basement , then across and back up the stair well. We put a large vent in the kitchen island , down into my work shop then across the brew haus and recreation room to the stairwell. It works well and only need the Fisher in the basement on the coldest of days . Keep your air flowing in a convective loop and you should be able to heat it with at least a 3 cu ft. stove.

Thanks,

Do you have any advice/guidance/formulas on how to place and size vents to keep the air flowing in a convective loop?

TrishH · Apr 4, 2016

Simonkenton said:
In the event that you have not lived in a log home before, I will tell you that they have unique characteristics. The thermal mass of all the logs, the sheer weight and mass of the wood, stores heat. Much more so than in a frame house, it tends to stay at the temperature it is at.
So if you run your wood stove all day and have that place up to 72 degrees, you may be able to let the stove go out and the house will remain warm for quite a while.

On the other hand if you went out of town for a few days in the winter, upon your return you will have a cold house and it will take many hours to heat it up.
We live in the NC mountains in a log home, we have a wood stove of course but also a wall mounted gas heater. When going out of town in winter we set that thing on 55. Damn, it takes forever to heat up a 40 degree log cabin.

Thanks for the info! I have heated with wood before with backup propane furnace. We may have a backup system but really want to size the wood burning system to heat the whole house if possible. The old house that we heated mainly with wood was much smaller and frame construction.

What type of wall mount gas heater do you use for backup?

mark cline · Apr 4, 2016

I have the stairwell on one side of the house and at the opposite side , about 54 ft away, I have a vent in the kitchen island..
The vent was made as big as practical. No formulas or calculations. In order to move air up the stairwell, I had to make a vent as large as possible. The air that travels through the vent should equal the air that goes up the stairwell. You need to have as much air traveling down toward the heat source as you will need to heat the up stairs. A powered vent is an option if you can put it in an inconspicuous spot. Air moving up equals air moving down towards the heat source. Hope this helps.

xman23 · Apr 4, 2016

Yes what Mark said, most people that put stoves in the basement don't have a way to pump air down to get the stove heat up. Another issue I would have with a basement stove. With a stove you continually view the fire, tweak the air and reload. Going up and down stairs to the basement would get real old. The stove is the focal point in our great room. It's easy to tend to because it's there in the living space. When it's cold out there's always a great view of secondary burn in my stove. Yes I here your husband, a log cabin and a large stone fireplace. But it won't heat the house. We had the same conversation when we built our cabin. Luckily we went with the stove, which is a much better fireplace than a fireplace would ever have been plus it heats all of the house.

BrotherBart · Apr 4, 2016

We have stoves in the basement and on the first floor. As a test I put the 5,000 CFM commercial fan that I have in the shop at the top of the stairs blowing down one day and just used the stove in the basement cranking. It heated the house but we decided we didn't want a Cessina on a take off roll in the house on a regular basis.

Simonkenton · Apr 5, 2016

I am not at home. Am in Hammond Louisiana driving the big truck.
I think that heater is a Vanguard. This is a great little heater. 20,000 BTU non vented. Has a thermostat but does not use electricity. What a great little heater.
The thing has got to produce CO. I have hung a very good CO detector above it, several times, and it never even registered a 1.
We have had the heater for 20 years and works flawlessly.

Simonkenton · Apr 6, 2016

That is full length Scandanavian scribing! That is the most difficult type of log house to build.
I have built 8 log houses but they are flat sided logs with dovetail notches and chinking, Appalachian style log houses. Always wanted to build one like yours but never did.
Post some close up pics of that log work please.

TrishH · Apr 7, 2016

Simonkenton said:
That is full length Scandanavian scribing! That is the most difficult type of log house to build.
I have built 8 log houses but they are flat sided logs with dovetail notches and chinking, Appalachian style log houses. Always wanted to build one like yours but never did.
Post some close up pics of that log work please.

We are traveling at the moment but I do have some that kind of show the log work. When we get back home I have more. The tightness of the joins is amazing.

Building new full log home need advice on heating with wood.

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