Don't overlook the starter solenoid as said above. It is very much part of the same circuit under suspicion.
Zero turn won't start
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TreePointer
Minister of Fire
You can have corrosion or even broken strands of wire in the battery cables underneath the insulation and/or inside the strands. This is difficult to notice but still can reduce the available current for starting.
TEST BATTERY CABLES:
1. Replace battery ground cable with known good cable. Attempt to start. No start? Go to step 2.
2. Leave that known good cable on the ground side, and now replace hot cable with a second known good cable that runs from battery to starter bolt.
Note that new battery cables aren't necessary for this test. A good set of jumper cables from your car should work.
TEST BATTERY CABLES:
1. Replace battery ground cable with known good cable. Attempt to start. No start? Go to step 2.
2. Leave that known good cable on the ground side, and now replace hot cable with a second known good cable that runs from battery to starter bolt.
Note that new battery cables aren't necessary for this test. A good set of jumper cables from your car should work.
Mike M.
Feeling the Heat
Charge the battery, clean all connections with a wire brush, just replace the starter relay those are cheap.
I had an issue like this on a machine this winter. Ended up one of the magnets in the starter let loose and was causing intermittent issues.
Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk
I had an issue like this on a machine this winter. Ended up one of the magnets in the starter let loose and was causing intermittent issues.
Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk
Thanks Treepointer, I'll give this a try tomorrow morning. I did just purchase a digital multimeter so is there a way I can test the wire first?
TreePointer
Minister of Fire
Yes, you can test voltage drop with a multimeter. You might need longer test leads or an extension with gator clamps on the end. You also might need a helper to crank the engine while you read the multimeter display.
1. Test DC voltage by measuring from the POS battery terminal to the bolt where POS cable attaches to starter. Crank engine and read display. It should only read a fraction of a volt, say 0.2V. (BTW, when you aren't cranking, there should be 0.00V across that cable.)
2. Test DC voltage by measuring from the NEG battery terminal to where the NEG cable attaches to grounding bolt. Crank engine and read display. Again, there should be very little voltage drop.
All this assumes a good battery, clean conductive surfaces, and properly tightened connections.
Update....I check the battery before I started and was at 12.5v. I the disconnected the negative at the battery and put the negative jumper cable from battery to the post past the solonoid. I tried to start it but nothing...just a click. I then disconnect the positive cable and put on the positive jumper to the post past the solonoid and then to the battery and it started cranking right away but it sounded like a weak crank and never actually turned over. I then disconnect the jumper cables and teated the battery again and am at 12.3v so I took the battery out and have it on the tender again. So does this mean I either have a bad cable or solonoid?
Starters can become "weak". Too bad you didn't have a method to measure amperage (which your small meter WILL NOT DO at the level required).
Note: 12.3V is the signs of a weak battery. Your meter may have the ability to measure small amperage draws to try and isolate if you have some type of draw on your battery causing it to bleed voltage.
Note: 12.3V is the signs of a weak battery. Your meter may have the ability to measure small amperage draws to try and isolate if you have some type of draw on your battery causing it to bleed voltage.
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
One easy way to test to see if you have a bad charging system is this.
Get it running however you need to.
Disconnect the battery terminals.
If the engine sputters and dies...you have a charging system issue. If it keeps running and does not die, its the battery.
With the engine running above half throttle, you should be at almost full charge from the charging system. This should be >12V Maybe even as high as 13.5V across the battery terminals.
As with any troubleshooting this can be dynamic. A bad charging system can fry a good battery in a short period of time. If your battery is slowly losing charge overnight (not hooked up to anything), you have an issue with the battery.
Get it running however you need to.
Disconnect the battery terminals.
If the engine sputters and dies...you have a charging system issue. If it keeps running and does not die, its the battery.
With the engine running above half throttle, you should be at almost full charge from the charging system. This should be >12V Maybe even as high as 13.5V across the battery terminals.
As with any troubleshooting this can be dynamic. A bad charging system can fry a good battery in a short period of time. If your battery is slowly losing charge overnight (not hooked up to anything), you have an issue with the battery.
TreePointer
Minister of Fire
Video showing solenoid test:
(Substitute your 12V battery for the homemade DC power supply in the video.)
(Substitute your 12V battery for the homemade DC power supply in the video.)
claydogg84
Minister of Fire
You can test the wires with your new meter. Set it on Ohms and place a lead on each end of the wire (the wire will need to be disconnected). A good wire should read close to zero, while a wire with high resistance will read higher. You should see the difference immediately if you find a bad wire.
The saga continues........I checked the solenoid and found that I have no power coming from the ignition switch to the solenoid so I checked the seat switch, lever switches, and brake switch and they all are working perfectly. I then decided what the hell and jumped the solenoid and it fired right up. I think this This means that I either have a bad ground somewhere or the ignition switch or possibly the pto switch is bad? I also checked the battery while running and it's at 14+v so the stater is also fine
The saga continues........I checked the solenoid and found that I have no power coming from the ignition switch to the solenoid so I checked the seat switch, lever switches, and brake switch and they all are working perfectly. I then decided what the hell and jumped the solenoid and it fired right up. I think this This means that I either have a bad ground somewhere or the ignition switch or possibly the pto switch is bad? I also checked the battery while running and it's at 14+v so the stater is also fine
Just a word of warning - it can get a little confusing when trying to test circuits that have safety switches involved. Do yourself a favor and put a butt in that seat and make sure that all the proper startup sequence is be followed (PTO off, break pedal depressed, etc) WHILE you test the solenoid, or ignition switch wires.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Also known as testing for "continuity". A good meter will also give you a beep...indicating a positive test.
Unless I saw corrosion on a terminal, I wouldn't even check resistance.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Welcome to troubleshooting 101. You are doing the exact same things we pros do, you eliminate the possibilities one by one. Once you find what is NOT wrong, you will find what IS wrong.
Sportbikerider78 I did check the voltage while running and it was around 14v so the stater/alternator is working fine. I figure tomorrow I will try to get the ignition out and test it along w/ fining the other end of the wire that goes to the solenoid and check it for continuity and while I'm at it I will check the pto safety. If they all check out fine I will be at a loss. Is there a way you can test a wire other then at the ends w/ the exposed wire connection? I ran across a needle test on the internet and figured I may give it a try on the issue wire.
Ok I'm officially stumped. I checked the battery voltage this morning and am at 12.7v which from my understanding is fine. I then checked the pto for continuity and it checked out fine. Next I checked the black wire running from the ignition to the solenoid and it's continuity checked out fine. I then move to the switch itself and checked it following a vid on youtube and it checked out fine. What next?
johneh
Minister of Fire
It almost sounds like there is a dead spot in the starter armature
Unless you know a mechanic that has a lot of years under there belt
and some antique equipment its hard to test to tell for sure. A
mechanic with years of experience can tell by listening to
the starter. Don't matter any way they do not overhaul
them any more just a throw away part and pay big bucks
for new
Unless you know a mechanic that has a lot of years under there belt
and some antique equipment its hard to test to tell for sure. A
mechanic with years of experience can tell by listening to
the starter. Don't matter any way they do not overhaul
them any more just a throw away part and pay big bucks
for new
VICTORY
! I went back at it and started to wiggle the wires coming off the safety switches on the arms and brake lever and it ended up being a bad connection from the brake switch. I'll stop by my local shop and get a new wire connection. Thanks everyone for all the help!
! I went back at it and started to wiggle the wires coming off the safety switches on the arms and brake lever and it ended up being a bad connection from the brake switch. I'll stop by my local shop and get a new wire connection. Thanks everyone for all the help!
TreePointer
Minister of Fire
That's pretty much how it goes when tracking down electrical issues. Check the likely suspects first and methodically keep testing (sometimes retesting) until you find it. It's not my favorite thing to do, but it gets easier with experience, and patience is rewarded. Good job!
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Woop, coming in late here...
I find that when an electrical problem gets frustrating, a pencil can really help.
Trace all the wires back and draw a circuit diagram for whatever doesn't work. This will usually lead to several 'Ohhhh' moments as you are forced to figure out how the system is connected. When you are done, you can often just fix the problem; if not, you have a nice diagram of what bits need to be tested.
With the diagram, you can narrow down the problem quickly using the half-split method. Test the circuit in the middle somewhere- if it's good, you may have an issue between there and ground; if it's bad, you may have an issue between there and the power source. Now you can split the remaining half again, and so forth.
As you learned on this one, real-world problems are often intermittent ones which make troubleshooting more frustrating- but if you get in there with a meter, you will get it figured out.
With simple systems like vehicular wiring, I personally tend to just jump straight to the likely culprits before I undertake a systemic approach- but let me tell you, the problem isn't always coming from the most likely source!
I find that when an electrical problem gets frustrating, a pencil can really help.
Trace all the wires back and draw a circuit diagram for whatever doesn't work. This will usually lead to several 'Ohhhh' moments as you are forced to figure out how the system is connected. When you are done, you can often just fix the problem; if not, you have a nice diagram of what bits need to be tested.
With the diagram, you can narrow down the problem quickly using the half-split method. Test the circuit in the middle somewhere- if it's good, you may have an issue between there and ground; if it's bad, you may have an issue between there and the power source. Now you can split the remaining half again, and so forth.
As you learned on this one, real-world problems are often intermittent ones which make troubleshooting more frustrating- but if you get in there with a meter, you will get it figured out.
With simple systems like vehicular wiring, I personally tend to just jump straight to the likely culprits before I undertake a systemic approach- but let me tell you, the problem isn't always coming from the most likely source!
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