Ideal Steel install

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trguitar

Feeling the Heat
Dec 2, 2011
265
Harvard, MA
Gents,

Just bought a home that has a Jotul F400 installed on a brick raised hearth fireplace. I'd like to replace it with an Ideal Steel, but I'm not sure it will work.

Here are the dimensions of the fireplace. The opening is about 35" wide, and 24 1/2" high on both sides. The top of the fireplace opening is arched, and is about 27 1/2" at the highest point. It's tough to measure the top because the pipe and the stove are in the way.

The hearth pushes out about 21", and there is another 13" of hearth on the floor for front ember protection. The hearth is raised up about 8" off the floor.

I think the stove should fit on the raised hearth because the legs are 20", but I am concerned about attaching the pipe in the back. I'll only have roughly 2 3/4" on either side to have access to the rear of the stove to attach the pipe, and no access from the top. I'll be able to get my hand in there, but will it be too difficult?

I think I would have to go without an ash pan because of the height restrictions.

Would love some feedback from others who have installed in a tight setup.

I can send some pictures of the current setup with the F400 tonight. I'm sure that will help.

Alex
 
Is the stove connected to a flex liner in the chimney? If yes that may provide a little wiggle room if the stove is pulled out a few inches.
 
Here are some pics of the current install with the F400.

20160628_184811.jpg 20160628_184755.jpg 20160628_184742.jpg 20160628_184728.jpg 20160628_184609.jpg 20160628_184550.jpg
 
I looked a little at the woodstocks for my raised hearth install and did not really think I could make it work. You have more depth but if you set that all the way out front then you will have to extend the ember protection at least. Also, do you have to be able to raise the lid on that one to access/service the cat? That could be an issue too.

Do you know the 400 will not get done what you want to get done?
 
Extending the ember protection is not a big deal. If everything else worked it would be worth it.

The other idea I had was to vent out the top, and make a hole somewhere above the fireplace opening. There is enough clearance to do that if a pipe shield is put on. Is this likely to be expensive?

We just moved in a few weeks ago, so I have not had a winter with the 400, yet. The house is 2400 sf, so I doubt it would be up to the task of being a 24/7 heater which is what I'm after.
 
trguitar said:
I don't know if it's flex. How can I tell?
Click to expand...
Inspect with a flashlight and a mirror if necessary. Maybe use a cellphone to take a picture pointing up toward the damper area.

Has the chimney been swept recently? If yes, ask the sweep or look at the chimney status report.
 
trguitar said:
Gents,

Just bought a home that has a Jotul F400 installed on a brick raised hearth fireplace. I'd like to replace it with an Ideal Steel, but I'm not sure it will work.

Here are the dimensions of the fireplace. The opening is about 35" wide, and 24 1/2" high on both sides. The top of the fireplace opening is arched, and is about 27 1/2" at the highest point. It's tough to measure the top because the pipe and the stove are in the way.

The hearth pushes out about 21", and there is another 13" of hearth on the floor for front ember protection. The hearth is raised up about 8" off the floor.

I think the stove should fit on the raised hearth because the legs are 20", but I am concerned about attaching the pipe in the back. I'll only have roughly 2 3/4" on either side to have access to the rear of the stove to attach the pipe, and no access from the top. I'll be able to get my hand in there, but will it be too difficult?

I think I would have to go without an ash pan because of the height restrictions.

Would love some feedback from others who have installed in a tight setup.

I can send some pictures of the current setup with the F400 tonight. I'm sure that will help.

Alex
Click to expand...
Why not go with a steel insert?
 
Here is a photo of the connection to the T. It is corrugated, but it is hard. It's not flexible like a dryer vent pipe.

I already did the insert (Lopi Freedom) at the last house. I really want a freestanding stove. If I really can't get the IS to fit, I'll just stick with the F400 for now.

20160629_202818.jpg
 
yes that is a flex liner
 
Yup. Flex liner and a block-off plate. Looks like a proper install.

It looks like the deciding factor may be the depth of the hearth. The F400 is a shallow stove which works well for the hearth. The IS is 27.5" deep so it will be a squeeze to fit it on the hearth. The leg spacing is 20" but there is a section behind the legs that may make this a tough fit without adding depth to the hearth. Here are the physical dimensions:
Screen Shot 2016-06-29 at 6.39.44 PM.png
 
Last edited:
That's a great point. I didn't even notice the section behind the legs. And the folks at Woodstock didn't mention it either. I will talk to them to get the dimensions of that since it doesn't look like it is listed in manual.

What is the rule about front clearance and the raised hearth. The IS requires 16" of front clearance, but the hearth is about 8" above the ground. I'm trying to figure out, if I were to extend the hearth, what the minimum extension could be.
 
As long as the flue makes it, I think you should get it, and it sounds like you should be fine on height. You'll be able to get it connected, trust me. Just have the liner height set correct and slide it in place, 2-3/4", should be enough room to squeeze your arm in there to wiggle it home. The only thing is you may not be able to get screws in. For that Id plan to have something propping behind the T against the chimney and let the weight of the stove hold it in place against the chimney.

Id be a bit more concerned if your front legs will make it on the hearth. Can someone provide an exact measure of front legs to back of stove?
 
trguitar said:
That's a great point. I didn't even notice the section behind the legs. And the folks at Woodstock didn't mention it either. I will talk to them to get the dimensions of that since it doesn't look like it is listed in manual.

What is the rule about front clearance and the raised hearth. The IS requires 16" of front clearance, but the hearth is about 8" above the ground. I'm trying to figure out, if I were to extend the hearth, what the minimum extension could be.
Click to expand...
Extension will be 16" in front of the door regardless of drop in height.
 
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trguitar said:
That's a great point. I didn't even notice the section behind the legs. And the folks at Woodstock didn't mention it either. I will talk to them to get the dimensions of that since it doesn't look like it is listed in manual.

What is the rule about front clearance and the raised hearth. The IS requires 16" of front clearance, but the hearth is about 8" above the ground. I'm trying to figure out, if I were to extend the hearth, what the minimum extension could be.
Click to expand...
For front ember protection you could just lay a strip of something in front. I really wouldnt worry much there, it will not get hot so we're simply talking something that is not flammable. Realistically, youd be fine not adding to it, but obviously to get to code youd want to add something to make the extra 3".
 
So, I just confirmed with Woodstock that the back of the stove juts out about 1 1/2". That makes back of the stove to front legs 21 1/2". So, with my 21" hearth it ain't gonna fit. Plus, I'm concerned about access to the T for cleaning. If I extend it about 11 1/2" to make it 32 1/2", I think that would work. That would give me 6" of access in the back plus 23 1/2" stove body depth, plus the 13" on the floor that I already have. That gets me the 16" clearance in front. But, it also leaves that ash lip hanging over. Is that a problem?

I think I really want the ash pan, too, which means I might have to vent out the top and back into the wall of the chimney. Do I talk to a sweep or mason about whether that would work? Any concerns here?

Thanks for the responses so far! This has been very helpful!
 
No problem with the ash lip hanging over but it will still need a hearth extension at floor level. Wondering if the side loading Progress Hybrid would work better? How large an area is the stove heating? Is the stove room open to the rest of the house?
 
Yes, I will still have the 13" of protection on the floor that I currently have. That will meet clearance because the stove body will be back of the edge of the hearth by 3".

The house is just shy of 2400 sf. The stove room is open to the rest of the house. A wide opening, plus a long half-wall. There will be plenty of air movement.

What about the idea of venting out the top and tapping into the chimney from the front, instead of going up through the fireplace like the current install is doing? Is it worth pursuing?
 
If you're going to extend the hearth outward, I would go for the rear vent option AND get the ash pan. I went through the same sort of deal....my fireplace was only 28" high, and I was worried about being able to get an ash pan. The minimum height to centerline is 24", and that is without an ash pan BUT you can put the vent adapter on upside down and gain an additional 1.5" or so. This allowed me to get the ash pan option (which I now wouldn't do without). No negative effects so far, but I have a good drafting flue.
 
trguitar said:
What about the idea of venting out the top and tapping into the chimney from the front, instead of going up through the fireplace like the current install is doing? Is it worth pursuing?
Click to expand...

Can be done, but it will add expense and complications, especially if there is a combustible mantel or the chimney is offset.

Look up Crosscut's install thread. He persisted and with help from Woodstock came up with a solution.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ideal-steel-may-not-fit-help.153380/
 
@Crosscut Your install thread is giving me confidence! I would like the ash pan, too. Seems like if I extend the hearth I am good. I will persist because I have had my eyes on a Woodstock since joining this forum 5 years ago!

I will keep everyone posted as to what happens.
 
Just got one quote on extending the hearth about 12". Almost $2700! That seems very expensive to me. It includes removing the current stove, raising the stainless tee, and possibly chiselling the arch a little (if the IS doesn't quite fit with the ash pan.)

Makes me think about doing it myself. I'm sure the materials aren't that expensive.
 
Looks like you already have an (18"?) hearth extension board. The IS legs are adjustable. Are you sure there will need to be all this work?
 
See your post #11 and my post #16. It's the front legs fitting on the hearth that I'm concerned about. It looks like with the stove pressed up against the fireplace opening, the legs will stick out over the edge of the hearth by 1/2". Do you think that's OK? What about access to the tee for cleaning?
 
No, you want the legs on firm footing. One option would be to put a sheet of 1/4" steel under the stove that extends a bit past the foot. Otherwise there will need to be some masonry work to extend the hearth. It might be worth getting a quote from a mason for just that part of the job.
 
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