2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

Actually now that you say that, I honestly can't remember. Get a hair dryer out and heat it up and see which way it goes. I did this a few years ago and cant remember. I just checked mine. I don't have a fire going and it is about an inch open at the lowest setting fully cold stove.


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Mr. Jones said:

But why wouldn't that let the T stat close fully when it's hot enough to peg? 7\ 8 of an inch like I'm supposed to have it at, and there's not enough spring in the brand new T stat to close it, wasting wood, killing burn time, and possibly over firing both cat and stove when I'm gone all day at work, or sleeping. I don't get it. It will do this with my wood, or dry as can be 2x4 ends. Doesn't matter.

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What kind of burn times are you getting from a FULL load of hardwood? And at what stove top temps? Keep in mind that every time you open the bypass to "cool down" the cat it will reduce the burn time.

tarzan said:

what I've always thought of as Poplar is really a Tulip tree or Tulip Poplar.

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The Aspen and Poplars they have up north, as well as Eastern Cottonwood, are mostly in the Willow family. Tulip (Yellow) "Poplar" is actually in the Magnolia family. I've seen Tulip rated from 16-18. I haven't burned much of it except as kindling but I tend to lean toward the 16 end of that range. Cottonwood and Aspen are in the 13-15 range from what I've seen.

Mr. Jones said:

The problem is it's not smart, or hooked up to the cat guage to know when it's going out or running too hot. It simply works off the warmth of the stove. Would be nice to have a smart one that worked like that. So then the fire goes out, or almost out, cat goes inactive, and then it starts to open up a tiny bit, making the wood smoke again which just smokes the hell out of the new cat, and new liner for an undetermined amount of hours.

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Surely you've read the countless posts on this site over the last decade, of numerous BK owners running these stoves without an issue, and you still suppose your problem is with the design of the stove? Logical, you are not.

The designer of this stove (as with any control system) has sought to design a critically-damped system, possibly erring a bit (for safety) on the side of over-damped. The theory is that the temperature of the stove, which drives that thermostat, will follow the temperature of the firebox and the cat in some ratio, with the time lag required to provide stability. Too fast a response will cause an under-damped condition, and thus oscillation. Your issue is not the design of these stove, which many others are using without issue, but some failure in your stove hardware, installation, or use of the stove.

claybe said:

The t stat is designed not to close all the way. It is not dangerous. It is designed that way per EPA specifications.

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Let's be clear here. We can all hear our thermostat click shut when we turn down the stove. What holes may exist in the thermostat to allow some small combustion air to leak thru the thermostat when closed, I do not know, but I believe you may be thinking more about non-cat stoves when you discuss EPA specifications requiring a certain amount of air into the firebox at minimum air setting.

Mr. Jones said:

But why wouldn't that let the T stat close fully when it's hot enough to peg? 7\ 8 of an inch like I'm supposed to have it at, and there's not enough spring in the brand new T stat to close it, wasting wood, killing burn time, and possibly over firing both cat and stove when I'm gone all day at work, or sleeping. I don't get it. It will do this with my wood, or dry as can be 2x4 ends. Doesn't matter.

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If you're closing your thermostat all the way, and you believe it's installed correctly, there must be a leak elsewhere. These stoves can be stalled quite easily, if everything is working properly.

Is this the same old (1982'ish) BK you mentioned before, that you purchased used two years ago? Do you think this could be why the previous owner was selling it? A possible cracked weld (overfire abuse), somewhere the eye can't see? If this is a 1982 Blaze King, your complaints above would be akin someone complaining about Toyota's "bad design" after buying a 35-year old Corolla, and realizing it has some issues to repair after three decades on the road.

claybe said:

Actually now that you say that, I honestly can't remember. Get a hair dryer out and heat it up and see which way it goes. I did this a few years ago and cant remember. I just checked mine. I don't have a fire going and it is about an inch open at the lowest setting fully cold stove.


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If you get a minute, can you do the hair dryer test for me, and let me know if it fully closes, or how far open it is if it doesn't fully close? That would help me tremendously.

When the new T stat is installed to the correct height according to bkvp, it doesn't close enough even when pegged, and the flame never dies out, resulting in low burn times, and super hot burns. I don't know how to explain that any further for you Ashford, but I guess since everyone else's stove works great, it must be all in my head with your "logic". Looks like you don't even know what stove we're talking about, and claim " we can all hear our T stat click shut when we turn down the stove." No. We all don't. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I took my door off and tightened the bolts the other day as they where loose. Ever since then i have been smelling a creasote smell from where the cat gauge is. I was planning on changing the bypass gasket and the cat gasket but didnt understand some of the directions. I mean i think i do but I was hoping blaze king would post a video one of these days. Sometimes it easier to see what to do rather then to read. Or do any of you guys who know the proper way of doing this and can post videos? I know everything is pretty straight forward but i wouldnt mind a helping hand either.

Also how long do you guys wait until putting the stove on high to burn the creaosote off the glass and inside of stove?

Mr. Jones said:

Looks like you don't even know what stove we're talking about, and claim " we can all hear our T stat click shut when we turn down the stove." No. We all don't. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

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You're right. I have not kept track of what stove every visitor to this forum is running. This is where signatures really help. I do remember you previously stated a few times that you had a 30+ year old Blaze King, in addition to a Lopi, so I assume it is this old BK to which you are referring.

Don't miss my point, though. You had claimed the issue with this stove is that the thermostat isn't "smart, or hooked up to the cat gauge to know when it's going out or running too hot," implying your problems were a result of the design of the stove. Your problem is not the result of the design of the thermostat, it is a problem unique to your installation, repair, or use of the stove.

I know you're frustrated, so I didn't intend to throw fuel on the fire. It was more a suggestion to start poking around with a light and incense, looking for any potential leaks. I also think you're headed in a good direction, questioning the thermostat installation. For example, is it possible the thermostat design was revised, and you're trying to put a newer thermostat on an older stove?

I put a new t stat on a 10 year old stove. The stove was made in 06. I stretched the old t stat a bit thinking It was bad since it wouldn't close. Then I was told it's supposed to be open when cold at 7/8 of an inch, even when in the closed position. So, in order to make sure I was right with spec and everyone else, I spent $220 on a new t stat. Unfortunately, it seems like I could have just stuck with the old t stat, as I moved it down anyways to get the super long burn times. Down as in literally down, since there's an oval shape where you mount the t stat to the side of the stove, giving you a quarter inch or so of play. I think you'd have to have an insert to know exactly what I'm talking about like claybe. I was just upset that I spent that kind of money, and I'm still not in speck I don't think with everyone else that has the insert, when it comes to their flapper being 7/8 open when cold, and closing. I'm still at a quarter of an inch from closing "the flapper" when hot. Maybe it's my wood. Maybe it's too light, and un dense, being cotton/ poplar. Maybe if I used hard apple, or black locust, it would need that extra air to keep the denser wood going. Maybe that wood would burn hotter, closing the flapper farther. I don't know, haven't tried different wood yet. That's why I'd like to know what other's specks are with the insert as far as how close to fully closed their flapper is when hot.

So, in order to get the long burn time that I got today from last nights fire, I have the current new t stat about a half an inch open when cold, from the 7/8 that it's supposed to be at. That's still wrong according to what bkvp said the stove's t stat is supposed to be at, and I don't know why. It's just like the wood doesn't heat the stove up enough to get the spring to close the flap fully. The cat guage is almost pegged if I leave the fan off. 2 oclock with pegged being 3 oclock to be specific. The fan on will bring her to high noon, which is where I like it in the shoulder season. I'm going for long burn times for now.

I appreciate the help I get from you guys. I really do. I am sorry for taking up so much of this thread. Hopefully soon I can help others with their questions, instead of always being the one with the questions.
,

Fwiw my not an insert bk runs just fine in our local poplar. We call it gopher wood, as in throw a stick of poplar in and go for another.

Hi everyone,

New to the post and to the wood burning world. Just had a ash ford 30 installed last week. Did 3 small fires to cure paint and I think we did 3 or 4 long burns with it. So far happy with the results. I have been burning nothing but gopher wood (poplar) with good burn times 10-14 hrs on ~ low-med setting. I do not have a moisture gauge but the wood catches on fire extremely easily and a nice size chunk has very little weight compared to a freshly cut green chunk. But have some questions/concerns:
1) does the cat need to be red in order to be working properly or as long as it's in the active zone it's ok?
2) after the last ~10 hour burn I had black creosote formed on the window in each bottom corner, is that normal?
3) also after last burn I noticed the noticed creosote building up in firebox, will running the hot burn time after the long burn time resolve the creosote on the glass and inside firebox issue?
4) we also have creosote leaking from the black stove pipe above the stove??

I'm in contact with dealer/installer but just what some other advice. We are not going to use stove until it is inspected.


Thank you

Shoo42 said:

4) we also have creosote leaking from the black stove pipe above the stove??

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Can you post a picture of your setup? Creosote should go back into the stove unless the pipes were installed wrong.

It does sound like you are burning wet wood, that and coupled with fall temps will not help the draft.

mellow said:

Can you post a picture of your setup? Creosote should go back into the stove unless the pipes were installed wrong.

It does sound like you are burning wet wood, that and coupled with fall temps will not help the draft.

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Mr. Jones said:

I put a new t stat on a 10 year old stove. The stove was made in 06. I stretched the old t stat a bit thinking It was bad since it wouldn't close. Then I was told it's supposed to be open when cold at 7/8 of an inch, even when in the closed position. So, in order to make sure I was right with spec and everyone else, I spent $220 on a new t stat. Unfortunately, it seems like I could have just stuck with the old t stat, as I moved it down anyways to get the super long burn times. Down as in literally down, since there's an oval shape where you mount the t stat to the side of the stove, giving you a quarter inch or so of play. I think you'd have to have an insert to know exactly what I'm talking about like claybe. I was just upset that I spent that kind of money, and I'm still not in speck I don't think with everyone else that has the insert, when it comes to their flapper being 7/8 open when cold, and closing. I'm still at a quarter of an inch from closing "the flapper" when hot. Maybe it's my wood. Maybe it's too light, and un dense, being cotton/ poplar. Maybe if I used hard apple, or black locust, it would need that extra air to keep the denser wood going. Maybe that wood would burn hotter, closing the flapper farther. I don't know, haven't tried different wood yet. That's why I'd like to know what other's specks are with the insert as far as how close to fully closed their flapper is when hot.

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I almost wish I had an insert, so I could take some photos for comparison. Hopefully someone with one will be able to do so. In the meantime, maybe post some photos of what you're describing, which may spur some help.

It's not the wood species. These stoves are very popular in the PNW, where most of what they burn is soft crapwood.

Shoo42 said:

1) does the cat need to be red in order to be working properly or as long as it's in the active zone it's ok?
2) after the last ~10 hour burn I had black creosote formed on the window in each bottom corner, is that normal?
3) also after last burn I noticed the noticed creosote building up in firebox, will running the hot burn time after the long burn time resolve the creosote on the glass and inside firebox issue?
4) we also have creosote leaking from the black stove pipe above the stove??

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1) No, the cat does not need to be red to be working. It will do a very nice job of eating creosote at any temperature above 500F, but it won't start glowing until you're closer to 1000F. Go by the thermometer/gauge, with the understanding that the gauge lags the cat by a few minutes in time, and you must shut of any blowers for 5 minutes to get an accurate gauge reading.

2) Creo in the firebox is normal. This is the beauty of a cat stove. You can burn so low the firebox turns into a mess of black tar, but the cat combustor ensures your chimney stays clean, producing heat all the while.

3) BK recommends burning hot for the first 20 - 30 minutes of each load. This is to control the level of creo build-up in the firebox. It's not uncommon to find firebrick literally glued to the inside of your firebox with creosote, if you burn low day after day, without these hot cycles to burn the gunk off.

4) Your stove pipe should not be leaking creosote. First, you should not be getting much in the way of creosote into the pipe. After 5 cords, I'll have just a dusting of dry stuff in the pipe and liner, that looks almost like popcorn ceiling (1970's reference). No tar-like glazed creosote. Second, if your stove pipe is oriented correctly (male end down, female end up), any creosote that did end up in the chimney would safely run down the inside into the stove, never down the outside of the pipe. Do note that double wall pipe has the outward appearance of being upside down, because the inner pipe has the opposite sex from the outer pipe.

Your photos were posted while I was typing the post above. Can't read the labels. Is that single or double wall?

The chimney being installed upside down does seem to be something I have been hearing often. I'll have to buy a moisture tester, but the woo

Ashful said:

I almost wish I had an insert, so I could take some photos for comparison. Hopefully someone with one will be able to do so. In the meantime, maybe post some photos of what you're describing, which may spur some help.

It's not the wood species. These stoves are very popular in the PNW, where most of what they burn is soft crapwood.



1) No, the cat does not need to be red to be working. It will do a very nice job of eating creosote at any temperature above 500F, but it won't start glowing until you're closer to 1000F. Go by the thermometer/gauge, with the understanding that the gauge lags the cat by a few minutes in time, and you must shut of any blowers for 5 minutes to get an accurate gauge reading.

2) Creo in the firebox is normal. This is the beauty of a cat stove. You can burn so low the firebox turns into a mess of black tar, but the cat combustor ensures your chimney stays clean, producing heat all the while.

3) BK recommends burning hot for the first 20 - 30 minutes of each load. This is to control the level of creo build-up in the firebox. It's not uncommon to find firebrick literally glued to the inside of your firebox with creosote, if you burn low day after day, without these hot cycles to burn the gunk off.

4) Your stove pipe should not be leaking creosote. First, you should not be getting much in the way of creosote into the pipe. After 5 cords, I'll have just a dusting of dry stuff in the pipe and liner, that looks almost like popcorn ceiling (1970's reference). No tar-like glazed creosote. Second, if your stove pipe is oriented correctly (male end down, female end up), any creosote that did end up in the chimney would safely run down the inside into the stove, never down the outside of the pipe. Do note that double wall pipe has the outward appearance of being upside down, because the inner pipe has the opposite sex from the outer pipe.

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Does the leaking creosote mean I have too much creosote in the chimney? Thank you

begreen said:

is this single or double-wall stove pipe?

Creosote should not be able to drip on the outside of the pipe if installed correctly. The crimped (male) end is supposed to be pointed down, toward the stove so that any creosote drips back into the stove.

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Gosh

begreen said:

is this single or double-wall stove pipe?

Creosote should not be able to drip on the outside of the pipe if installed correctly. The crimped (male) end is supposed to be pointed down, toward the stove so that any creosote drips back into the stove.

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I'm not a 100% sure. I believe the black pipe is double and I know for sure the rest is class A double stainless. There is even a creosote leak coming out of one of the little screws in the black pipe.

Shoo42 said:

Gosh


I'm not a 100% sure. I believe the black pipe is double and I know for sure the rest is class A double stainless. There is even a creosote leak coming out of one of the little screws in the black pipe.

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I'm think it would be roughly 15 ft of chimney above the black box. The chimney goes through the next story of the house, attic, and ~ 3 ish feet out the roof. The picture is a little deceiving, the 2x2 wood board is in line with the black box and not the 6" black pipe. So the 2x2 board is higher than the pipe, if it was in line with it it would be 6" away from it.

I just talked with installer. They said clean up the leak and run it. If it leaks again call them. They think maybe excess moisture from initial start up. They didn't seem to know about installing a chimney upside down (which makes sense to me). I'll keep a fire extinguisher on hand and pack my favorite belongings just in case I'll expect chimney from both ends prior to firing her up.

Shoo42 said:

I just talked with installer. They said clean up the leak and run it. If it leaks again call them. They think maybe excess moisture from initial start up. They didn't seem to know about installing a chimney upside down (which makes sense to me). I'll keep a fire extinguisher on hand and pack my favorite belongings just in case I'll expect chimney from both ends prior to firing her up

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I mean it's either upside down or it isn't. If it's not upside down it shouldn't leak outside the pipe. I don't understand their answer, "see it keeps leaking". This also means rain water that gets driven into the pipe will end up on top of the stove too.

I agree. I will check with a different place to get a second option.

I've seen this happen a few times when there was excessive creosote build up, both were on new installs. They had Only used it for a few weeks when this happened. Everything was installed correctly, don't know why it happened.

begreen said:

OK, you have plenty of chimney so draft should not be an issue.

Can you post an in focus image of the label on the stove pipe?

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Looks like excel to me. A nice shot of the label would show pipe direction.

All the labels point up.

webby3650 said:

Looks like excel to me. A nice shot of the label would show pipe direction.

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