Yes, we don't currently meet the minimum.
We're going to get a basic hearth extension pad to throw down in front of the current hearth and on top of the carpet.
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Yes, we don't currently meet the minimum.
We're going to get a basic hearth extension pad to throw down in front of the current hearth and on top of the carpet.
That'll work. It should be screwed down at least in the front two corners to keep it from creeping away from the hearth. The extension can be removed in the summer.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Looks like they want 16" from the front of the stove (not the ash lip,) correct? Can you put a ruler on the front of the stove, and if you can't reach anything combustible within 16", then you're good? Or do you look from above, straight down, in which case the floor might within 16" if you had the ruler going straight out parallel to the floor? Seems like the former would make more sense...
I'm currently about 12" from the opening to the edge of the hearth. I think this is the only number that matters because even if a straight line of the hypotenuse is >16" before getting to the wood floor, once it passes the 12" mark, the distance traveled is no longer caused by things popping out of the stove.
Damn gravity.
Damn gravity.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
I always thought it was from the front of the stove opening, to be legal, but I'll always advise going at least 24" out. You want a place to set your satchel of logs, when you bring them in to load the stove. Make the hearth extension big enough for this, and you'll be much happier. It also gives you a better place to set tools, when you're cleaning out ash, etc. More is always better.
Going to quickly share some thoughts/questions in a little rant.
I feel like if I'm not running the fan, that I'm wasting some of heat from the stove. But with the fires I've been making, if I run the fan, the main room gets quite toasty.
So conventional thinking would say to use less wood and run the stove at a lower temp, and then turn on the fan.
But with less wood, and the stove at a lower temp, I'm in that "creosote" zone.
Is there a way to properly run the stove at a lower temperature and not have to worry about creosote buildup? Instead of throwing the 4-5 splits, I could just throw it 1-2 at a time if that will get temperature down, but then again, the issue is still lower temps creating creosote problems.
Thoughts?
I feel like if I'm not running the fan, that I'm wasting some of heat from the stove. But with the fires I've been making, if I run the fan, the main room gets quite toasty.
So conventional thinking would say to use less wood and run the stove at a lower temp, and then turn on the fan.
But with less wood, and the stove at a lower temp, I'm in that "creosote" zone.
Is there a way to properly run the stove at a lower temperature and not have to worry about creosote buildup? Instead of throwing the 4-5 splits, I could just throw it 1-2 at a time if that will get temperature down, but then again, the issue is still lower temps creating creosote problems.
Thoughts?
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NY is exceptionally warm for this time of year. What you are experiencing is not uncommon in a ranch when the weather is mild. That's why it was suggested to burn shorter hot fires and let it go out. Or just wait until it gets colder to burn.
Have you tried distributing the excess heat to the rest of the house?
Have you tried distributing the excess heat to the rest of the house?
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yes: buy a catalytic stove.
Your only option with non-cat is burning hot fires of shorter duration. Pump and glide. Yes, the room temp will cycle a bit, but most find it tolerable.
We did try to warn you (eg. post #58).
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
I'd think "spurt burning" would be less of a problem if one has good insulation and air-sealing, and a convective stove with a cast iron jacket that flattens out the swings in temp. This place of ours loses heat relatively quickly, so cat burning works well for us.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Get a fan going and try moving some air around. The summit is a big firebox, so it produces a lot of heat, you'll be thankful for that when it gets cold out. You should be able to still get up to temp with a small load of wood, you mentioned your wood is a bit wet and that I believe is what is hampering getting out of the creosote zone on smaller loads. Don't be frustrated it's definitely a learning curve to dialling in a baffle/reburner type of stove. It takes some practice and skill to run one well, not like those cat stoves that even a small child could operate. So enjoy your nice big clean fireview, while the cat guys are staring into their black box trying to see their cat glow.
The summit is a fantastic woodstove that when operated properly will still be operating for decades without having to replace any.............cat.
In case it's not clear cat lovers, I'm a dog guy. Lol. As in doghouse for secondary air. Lol. My comments are tongue in cheek so let's not ruin this fellows thread with how awesome cat stoves are. I get it, and there's plenty of threads going to discuss that already.
The summit is a fantastic woodstove that when operated properly will still be operating for decades without having to replace any.............cat.
In case it's not clear cat lovers, I'm a dog guy. Lol. As in doghouse for secondary air. Lol. My comments are tongue in cheek so let's not ruin this fellows thread with how awesome cat stoves are. I get it, and there's plenty of threads going to discuss that already.
I used the forced air fan. I think the air cools down too much before it hits the bedroom, and then the side effect is also colder air coming out of the vents into the main rooms.
First thing I thought of through all of this was cat-stove!
But as I think of it. my problem isn't necessarily overheating the house. I feel the problem would be with any type of stove. I can certainly get the stove running at lower temperatures, a more ideal temperature for these mild weathers, but whether it's a cat or non-cat stove, isn't running the stove at say 200 degrees going to be an issue with creosote buildup?
My insulation actually isn't as bad as I thought it was.
Ultimately, I'm able to get the house to the temp I want. My question is, I feel to optimize the heat being created, I should be running the fan full blast all the time. The only way I can run the fan full blast and not heat myself out of the house is if the stove is running sub 300 degrees in that "creosote" level. Wouldn't this be an issue for a cat stove too?
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ditto. The cavern I call a house needs continuous heat, and will not work with "pump and glide", the way so many seem to do in modern construction. Also, it's really only in these shoulder season temperatures, that we find so many having trouble with this. Once it gets cold, this short-coming of the non-cat mostly goes away.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Just turn the fan off if the room is getting to hot. I heat my entire two story home from a summit stove in t h basement and don't run a single fan. There is no fan kit on my stove at all. I know with a insert you need the fan to pull heat out, but if the room is to hot turn the fan off. No biggie.
Also try using a freestanding fan to push air from the colder/cooler areas of your house towards the room with the insert in it.Experiment a bit until something works.
Also try using a freestanding fan to push air from the colder/cooler areas of your house towards the room with the insert in it.Experiment a bit until something works.
Let the wars continue!
I've been able to get it out of creosote zones, but the creosote zones are the temps that I actually want to run right now in these mild temperatures.
Maybe that's the idea of pump/glide. Pump to out of the creosote zones and then let it glide down and when it hits the lower levels, by that point the volume of wood has decreased and you don't have to worry about creosote anymore...
EDIT: Consolidate Posts
I'm probably just being an idiot.
I can get the house to where I want it to be by turning the fans off, but I feel like I'm wasting the heat generated from the box if I'm not pulling it all out.
Intuitively it seems that it would be more efficient to have a lower temp box and pull 100% ofl the hot air out rather than burn a hot fire and only use 50% of the heat by not pulling it with the fan.
But again, it seems that running the fire at the lower temperature is an issue with creosote. That's where I'm getting a little confused.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Exactly. In the coaling stage you will produce little to no creosote even well down in the 'creosote zone' range of temperatures. So burn hot, off gas all the nastys and burn them up, then cut your air back and cruise on coals, stretching it out as long as you can before, upping the air and reloading.
I would be cautious trying to idle down to much if you have questionable moisture content wood. I've actually never run my summit with wet or even wettish wood, only cured, cured, cured. I've burned my whole life(41 now) and long before having this stove learned the importance of wood. It is the main ingredient after all.
The best way to know how much creosote you're making is checking the chimney. If it's fairly easy to get to it would be worth popping that cap and having a look see down the liner after a couple/few weeks of burning to see what's up. Snap a pic and post up here. You'll get lots of opinions!
I would be cautious trying to idle down to much if you have questionable moisture content wood. I've actually never run my summit with wet or even wettish wood, only cured, cured, cured. I've burned my whole life(41 now) and long before having this stove learned the importance of wood. It is the main ingredient after all.
The best way to know how much creosote you're making is checking the chimney. If it's fairly easy to get to it would be worth popping that cap and having a look see down the liner after a couple/few weeks of burning to see what's up. Snap a pic and post up here. You'll get lots of opinions!
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Off of good wood it's easy to get out of the creosote zone with a smallish load.
I just started my stove before piping in here with four splits and a fire starter. No other wood used and here's what my fire looks like and my stovetop temp.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but with your thermometer placement due to being an insert you are always going to be reading a bit cooler then what most people are referring to for stovetop temps. In my pic you can see how close my thermometer is to the flue.
Also of note, I don't ever clean my glass anymore. I haven't cleaned it for atleast the last couple months of last years burning and all of this years.
I just started my stove before piping in here with four splits and a fire starter. No other wood used and here's what my fire looks like and my stovetop temp.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but with your thermometer placement due to being an insert you are always going to be reading a bit cooler then what most people are referring to for stovetop temps. In my pic you can see how close my thermometer is to the flue.
Also of note, I don't ever clean my glass anymore. I haven't cleaned it for atleast the last couple months of last years burning and all of this years.
prezes13
Minister of Fire
See that's exactly what ashful was talking about. You cannot run a tube stove low and slow. In a weather like that, it's still 50s-40s in ct I don't bother with the stove. Once it gets colder down to 30s I will start burning. In a warmer weather i feel just like you that I am wasting wood. Hopefully one day I will get a freestanding cat stove in my rec room downstairs.
First thing first, quick story. My neighbor has been talking to me while watching me gather and split wood that last few weeks. He offered up some of his wood that he doesn't use anymore. Some nicely seasoned wood that he has had around for the last couple years, including some good oak. I threw some into my coal bed to test it out. Had it run hot for only 15-20 minutes, and turned it down. Came back in a little later and the oven was running hotter than ever before, and got there faster!
So to Squisher, and many of the others on the board. Haven't found a more critical component of this equation yet than the quality of your wood!
I guess I'm a little confused. I can sorta kinda run my stove low and slow and just keep adding a little bit of wood to the coal beds and keep the fires small. My question is, how does the cat stove burn safely at 200 degrees and becomes ideal for these situations, but a regular stove has risks of creosote?
So to Squisher, and many of the others on the board. Haven't found a more critical component of this equation yet than the quality of your wood!
I guess I'm a little confused. I can sorta kinda run my stove low and slow and just keep adding a little bit of wood to the coal beds and keep the fires small. My question is, how does the cat stove burn safely at 200 degrees and becomes ideal for these situations, but a regular stove has risks of creosote?
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Yes, you can burn slow and low with a tube stove. Just not as long or efficiently as with a cat. Here's the same load I posted earlier now, and the temp. I could easily cruise slow and low like this for quite awhile if I didn't desire more heat then I've already got. I will concede. Not as low and slow as a cat, or consistent. But to say you're wasting wood and can't burn low with a reburner/tube stove is not true.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
That's four pieces of wood with a fire starter I've burned so far. It's mild out. Low and slow, after the burn off. And I'm not worried about creosote or build up of any sort at all.
prezes13
Minister of Fire
They are two different technologies. Tube stove needs to achive much higher temprature to burn clean, I think it's about 1000-1200df. To get there you use a lot of fuel. Cat stove needs only half of it I think 500df is enough to get the combustor working. At that point you can turn the stove down and cat will eat smoke without putting creo in you chimney. Tube stove by design will not let you do that. You can do what Squisher did but you won't be able to load your stove full and run it really slow at low heat output, without putting creo in your chimney. That's why for me to get the stove to the operating temp and let it die so I won't overheat the house is a waste of wood.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
A couple thoughts here...you can burn small fires in a tube stove, you just need to use really dry wood and stack it log cabin style or in a pyramid so that you get some good hot flames up near the baffle to kick off secondary burn...with this type of fire I don't worry about the stove top temp so much as I do just making sure there are nice hot, bright and clean burning flames and no smoky lazy flames. You may or may not be able to turn the stove down to its normal "cruise" air setting.
The other trick I have learned is to load the stove with some hardwood on the bottom and then some softwood on top, the softwood will bring the stove up to secondary burn temps and then hardwood will coal up and give off some "low and slow" smokeless heat for quite a while...this would also be a smaller load of wood stacked loose and tall. Same deal with the STT, pay attention to the fire more so...
The other trick I have learned is to load the stove with some hardwood on the bottom and then some softwood on top, the softwood will bring the stove up to secondary burn temps and then hardwood will coal up and give off some "low and slow" smokeless heat for quite a while...this would also be a smaller load of wood stacked loose and tall. Same deal with the STT, pay attention to the fire more so...
Squisher
Minister of Fire
I have zero issue with creosote but will say that I usually run hotter then I did. Or reload sooner because I desire more heat then an idle.
Here is three pics of the stove at reload. before reload. Right after reload and the last about five minutes after. Cutting my air back pretty severely at the last picture. A six piece load of half and half spruce and fir tonight. Spruce is a lightweight in the heating/burn time department.
I'll off gas this load and settle it into coals and there will be zero concern of creosote. I can run those coals a long time if I choose to. But as usual the demand from the family for heat comes into play long before that.
Here is three pics of the stove at reload. before reload. Right after reload and the last about five minutes after. Cutting my air back pretty severely at the last picture. A six piece load of half and half spruce and fir tonight. Spruce is a lightweight in the heating/burn time department.
I'll off gas this load and settle it into coals and there will be zero concern of creosote. I can run those coals a long time if I choose to. But as usual the demand from the family for heat comes into play long before that.
Still too warm for us to be burning here. 57F right now. This has been an unusual October. When we do start burning regularly I'll take the stove top temp with an IR thermometer reading and compare with one off the front face corner.
Thanks to all the posters for their explanations and personal experiences. Lots of the questions I'm asking now are variations of previously asked questions. Now they are more specific since it's in practice rather than the in theory questions from prior to purchase. So my apologies for any redundancy. I promise to make some sort of compilation from this thread of my FAQ and other good information from posters so that this thread could potentially help others in the future.
I better understand now the pros of the Cat stove. Since secondary combustion can occur at much lower temps, you don't have to worry as much about running in that creosote levels since you'll still have secondary combustion occurring anyway. For the normal stoves however, there are some workarounds, most importantly using high quality dry wood. Get that initial burst of heat and then glide.
I better understand now the pros of the Cat stove. Since secondary combustion can occur at much lower temps, you don't have to worry as much about running in that creosote levels since you'll still have secondary combustion occurring anyway. For the normal stoves however, there are some workarounds, most importantly using high quality dry wood. Get that initial burst of heat and then glide.
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