Newbie - Insert Stove?

I'm not familiar with the stoves you mentioned but I'm not sure how the blower would operate without power ?

I went with a non flush mount. A small portion of the metal fire box did need to be cut. With a non flush mount you do get radiant heat from the exposed area so if you have a power outage it's still going to give you some heat without a blower. I have a blower but I don't use it too often. I find the inserts exposed area radiates enough heat for my needs. I do however use the blower if I want to heat up the house quick, but after 10 minutes or so I turn it off and leave it off.

Have you already established that the current fireplace can be fitted with an insert? Not all pre-fabs can.

NM... didn't see you had masonry around yours. I still would be carefull cutting anything out.

mellow said:

NM... didn't see you had masonry around yours. I still would be carefull cutting anything out.

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I'm not sure what the OPs set up is regarding prefab or not.

I know with mine it's a masonry cement block chimney that was built with a metal firebox. It was built with hollow cavities above the firebox with vents so hot air could escape. It actually heated very well as an open fireplace but like all open fireplaces it was not efficient. I would burn through 3 or 4 hardwood splits in 30 minutes.

In my case cutting the metal firebox had no negative effects ( other than never being able to return the fireplace to an open fireplace).

Assuming the OP is ok with cutting the metal firebox, I guess if I were the OP I'd probably choose an insert that requires the least amount of cutting.

Also in regards to the laminate floor needing to be extended 2 inches. In my opinion it's worth it to get the non flush because with the non flush you do get more radiant heat. I find the blower annoying at times and happy that I really don't need it usually. If I had to run the blower constantly I might get frustrated.

Unless you just want the look of the flush stove my suggestion is the non flush for a little better radiant heat. Just my opinion

begreen said:

Not a problem. A heatform is not the same as a ZC fireplace. It's a metal form in a masonry surround.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/heatform/

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All good. I have one very similar that I keep thinking I'll add a stove to but then I'm not sure I want to feed two stoves. Carry on .

Van said:

Too much chimney can increase updraft causing the stove to burn out of control. Contrarily too little chimney with too little updraft could smoke the room.

According to the manufacturer a smooth wall flue liner increases draft by 20% over the corrugated flex liners that everyone is using.

I would be interested to know if your buddy has to clean his glass very often.

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Your concerns remind me of myself when I first got my stove. Couple of thoughts if you don't mind.

Regarding the stove over firing or smoking the room. First your wood selection can play into this just as much if not more than your stove set up. Prior to EPA regulated stoves and the testing that was required to come with them, folks burned old smoke dragons according to their instincts and it turned out fine, I know I grew up in a house heated with wood.

Your modern stove is unlikely to burn out of control over a few feet difference in chimney height. Honestly 12 feet is probably going to work just fine it's only a few feet lower than the 15 foot test heights. And again thank the EPA for that one because the stove company wants to make that stove achieve as high efficiency rating and long burn time as possible. If that happens using a 15 foot chimney that's fine. Doesn't mean a 12 foot chimney is gonna mess all that up. My guess is you wouldn't even notice a difference.

Regarding too little chimey smoking up the room ? No chance. I refuse to believe a modern stove connected directly to a liner using 12 foot of chimney is going to pour smoke into your room. Once again in this scenario it might come down to your wood more than the lack of 3 feet of chimney. Burning fresh cut pine that was submerged in water ? Ya it might smoke some. You get my point.

As for your liner. A smooth liner does most likely draft better. It might also clean better . But do some research. If it's a smooth flex liner I'm not sure if it lasts as long ?? This is an area for a sweep to chime in on smooth vs non smooth liner.

Lastly in regards to cleaning the glass. Once again I place more emphasis on quality of wood and your burning habits. Smoldering fires, lack of flames, will dirty your glass. If you burn hot fires and maintain flame the glass stays clean. I really think your wood and how you burn will have more impact on keeping your glass clean than 3 feet of chimney.

When ( not if ) your glass gets dirty just take a paper towel, run water on it until it's saturated, rub it in ash from your stove, and wipe the glass. Take a fresh wet towel to wipe clean and you end up with clean glass.

I have to disagree. I think you are undervaluing the advantages of a taller chimney. A taller chimney can account for all sorts of other shortcomings much easier than a lower one I think. Taller chimneys pull harder and I see lots of really tall chimneys working quite well with what I would call less than ideal installations or appliances.

Squisher said:

I have to disagree. I think you are undervaluing the advantages of a taller chimney

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No not at all. I'm not saying in a perfect situation that using a 15 foot or taller chimney is not ideal, best case scenario. What I'm saying is that stove would most probably perform just fine with a few feet less.

In other words no way would I go about reconstructing the masonry chimney adding another 3 feet to it just to satisfy the EPA mandated regulations the manufacturer is forced to work with.....when in fact the stove will work just fine with 3 less feet of chimney. No it won't burn out of control, No it won't smoke up your room, no it won't dirty up your glass, over 3 feet of chimney.

12 feet of chimney is fairly decent. Prior to EPA stoves no one would have given this much thought at all.

All I'm saying is don't over think too much. There is room to apply common sense reasoning here. If you want text book performance according to the manual sure run 15 feet of chimney. If your adding to your existing chimney why not make it double bring it to 24 feet. Where to draw the line ? At what cost ? Especially if you can use your existing 12 feet of chimney, and still get a good burning and acceptable stove ?

Yes 15 feet or more is better. But that doesn't mean what you have won't work either. Comes down to how much you want to invest in time and money and what your expectations are. In your warmer climate I think no matter what you do you will be pleasantly surprised by adding a wood stove regardless if it uses a 15 foot chimney or a 12 foot chimney

I would think a super or summit insert will work fine on the OP's chimney, espescially if insulated and burned with dry wood.

Bholler I agree with most of what your saying. Like I said in a perfect world sure 15 feet of chimney is ideal in most all scenarios. But adding 3 feet of masonry chimney can be costly in both terms of money and your time so I was simply saying to the OP that his 12 foot chimney is probably just fine.

Just to clarify my comment on the EPA. Sure 15 to 18 feet of chimney might be the sweet spot for stove performance. But being that the EPA regulates stoves performance, pollution , efficiency etc the manufacturers in a " cover your you know what " will most likely be far less likely to tell a customer that they can probably be fine with a shorter chimney. Their dealers selling the products are probably going to push customers into doing whatever they have to inorder to obtain the manufacturer listed chimney height. They wouldn't want to be on record advising customers that it's ok to use a shorter chimney, thereby reducing efficiency of the stove and putting more particulates into the air. The dealer is less likely to say " but hey you will probably still get good enough performance with the stove so don't worry about it " So they stick to the text book.

Thankfully there are forums like this where people can get opinions and like you said and others have said try it with the 12 foot chimney because most likely it will probably run fine. That's what I meant by the EPA stove.

Ok completely off track but it reminds me of small homeowner chainsaws and the legal requirement small saws under 55 cc or so must be sold with safety chain. Complete garbage and most dealers won't tell you " hey the saw will cut like crap until you replace that anti kick back chain " they don't want the liability so they leave it up to you to figure that out on your own.

Thanks again to forums like this for advice.

On the 24 foot chimney comment I was trying to be funny. Meaning if your going through the trouble to build onto your chimney, dragging heavy cement blocks up ladders and setting up scaffolding don't stop at 3 feet go bigger make it huge. Go big or go home comment. Probably shouldn't have said that. I totally agree 24 feet could cause other issues.

One final thought. I've got a friend who put an old pre EPA stove in a hunting cabin. Looks like an old barrel stove. The chimneys lucky if it's got 8 feet to it. I'm not saying it was the best of installs but it's basically a shack. It does a fine job of heating a small cabin in temps near or below freezing.