Pictures Black Bear and Wood Tank Fram
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I think everyone got too excited about the tank structure. Coming from a structural background, concrete is a more familiar subject. It's nearly 3 times heavier than water, and can really likes to push out when you drop a vibrator in it. The water in maine's tank is just sitting there (until his kids start doing cannonballs). For others building tanks like this, just concentrate on tying one side to the other across the bottom since water will exert an equal force in all directions. With 300 psf at the bottom, running plumbers strap across the bottom every foot with a few nails on each side would do the job just fine. To test this theory, nail a piece to joist and get a few chubby friends to hang on it. Try with different number/type of nails, then weigh your friends. That type of empirical approach beats the theoretical for most folks. I assume the tank needs a top, so some 2x4's across the top could serve to support that end of our vertical beams. Round tanks do the job so well because they take advantage of the tensile strength of a thin membrane. However, the great molasses spill in the earlier part of this century proved that round tanks can fail too!
wsurfer49
Member
Looks fine to me. NO Leaks and holding together, that is the important thing. As long as it performs as intended, it isn't in the front of your house and boy will that be nice when it is filled with hot water.
I am toying with the idea of concrete block tank in my crawl space, either lined or just surface bonding, filled of course and rebarred horizontally. Any comments will be welcomed. Rob
I am toying with the idea of concrete block tank in my crawl space, either lined or just surface bonding, filled of course and rebarred horizontally. Any comments will be welcomed. Rob
The lid is the critical link, in my experience. Lag it down to prevent the walls from spreading. A clear vinyl tube is another nice feature to monitor water level.
hr
hr
Maine said:
Great hows it doing today?
DId you know that home depot sell an alarm for water leaks. could be a good idea. It just sits on the ground near the water heater and if it should stark to leak the alarm will sound off.
Hoping you never hear the sound!
NP ALASKA
Burning Hunk
I am no engineer or even half educated on this. Can some one give me some information on an additinonal tank setup? I have a CB 6048 and it is heating two seperate structures. I want to add a heat sink storage tank to help even the speratic ups and downs of the CB as it cycles through burns.
I am thinking of adding a 500 to 1000 gallon tank right next to the CB. I have a recycled 500 gal tank for nothing. I thought of putting it half in the ground and insulating the thing until it looks like the Michelan Man. I think that the tank is lower than the mass in the CB and will gravity feed down. I am thinking of a small pump to push back up to the CB tank.
I have also considered a tank in each building, the problem is space. I think I can fit 250 in the house garage and 300 in the other out building(provided I can get it through the door)?? Thoughts??
Other considerations: I am in the interior of Alaska, temps are commonly 30 and 40 below zero hear. Coldest Dec-Feb.
If I put a tank in the garage this is not much problem since the door is large. The other building the door is 32 inches wide?
Any thoughts would be great thanks.
I am thinking of adding a 500 to 1000 gallon tank right next to the CB. I have a recycled 500 gal tank for nothing. I thought of putting it half in the ground and insulating the thing until it looks like the Michelan Man. I think that the tank is lower than the mass in the CB and will gravity feed down. I am thinking of a small pump to push back up to the CB tank.
I have also considered a tank in each building, the problem is space. I think I can fit 250 in the house garage and 300 in the other out building(provided I can get it through the door)?? Thoughts??
Other considerations: I am in the interior of Alaska, temps are commonly 30 and 40 below zero hear. Coldest Dec-Feb.
If I put a tank in the garage this is not much problem since the door is large. The other building the door is 32 inches wide?
Any thoughts would be great thanks.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
Welcome to the Boiler Room, NP. We have lots and lots of threads here about various hot water storage options and ideas for same. What you're talking about sounds reasonable to me, although I think you're the first OWB owners I'm aware of who is talking about hot water storage. It probably makes as much sense with an OWB (and maybe more) as it does with a gasifier or indoor wood-fired boiler. You might want to cut and past this post into a new thread, just to get a fresh start with your specific setup and ideas. I know you'll get plenty of useful suggestions and help.
Those are some cold temps you guys in Alaska always talk about. I've seen -40 and temps that don't get above zero for a week or more here in upstate New York, but IME, the sustained cold periods really start to wear you down after awhile. I guess you guys get acclimated, just like everyone else. I'm also trying to picture trying to stay warm in those temps with softwood, but again, you guys seem to have that figured out, too.
Anyway, hats off to all our Alaskan members who heat with wood. Now that's dedication in my book.
Those are some cold temps you guys in Alaska always talk about. I've seen -40 and temps that don't get above zero for a week or more here in upstate New York, but IME, the sustained cold periods really start to wear you down after awhile. I guess you guys get acclimated, just like everyone else. I'm also trying to picture trying to stay warm in those temps with softwood, but again, you guys seem to have that figured out, too.
Anyway, hats off to all our Alaskan members who heat with wood. Now that's dedication in my book.
NP ALASKA
Burning Hunk
I have been a little busy lately, I do have the tank working and it is working fine I have got the temp. up to 175 and I can keep the boiler running no problem with the hx that I have. The dip tube set up is working quite well however there is only some stratification in the tank. As I said in other post I was going to use a water to air hx to heat the house with the tank, so that I can get more out of the tank, this is working but the radiant floor heat is my goal. It is nice now that I don't have to build a fire to heat the house, I can just build it when I want. I have much more to do, and I will be posting some pictures of it as soon as clean up some of the mess and finish some wiring. Oh yes someone mentioned somewhere on this forum about using a timer to shut the boiler down after so many hours, well this is what I did, and it works well, I was looking for a timer that would work for this and really could not come up with anything. Then I remembered I had a coin timer that I was going to use for a wireless pay phone that would work perfect, so I now have to feed the timer quarters to get the boiler to go but it works very well and it has a minute display. As I said I am the king of micky mouse and this is one micky mouse way to GET ER Done.
Steve
Steve
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
I'm getting a funny visual of you scrambling around the house (and vehicles) looking for quarters to feed into your boiler's meter.
Sounds like the tank is working very well, Maine. And you're using a flat plate hx, right?
Sounds like the tank is working very well, Maine. And you're using a flat plate hx, right?
Eric Johnson said:
Yes I am, it is large enough to take what ever the boiler is giving it. I don't have any fancy controls like on your boiler just a aquastat that I dial up to 190 deg if I need to. I also have an aquastat that starts the pump to the tank only when the temp in the boiler loop is up to 180 degrees.
Steve
steam man
Minister of Fire
I would suggest an ATM machine and a bill changer just to keep things going........................LOL
I'll stop by ASAP to attest to Maine's setup.
I'll stop by ASAP to attest to Maine's setup.
Just a small update I have been out for awhile, the tank is well worth the effort and money, I can now just build a fire when I want to and I can coast all of the other time. It is not where I want it I am useing forced hot air and it really does not heat the whole house evenly the way I have it set up but it keeps the oil boiler off. As stated before I am going to install radiant floor heat when I can afford it and have time, next season, for now this will get me by. My control scheme is very simple, if the boiler is down or should I say the blower is not running then when the upstailrs thermostat calls for heat it starts the circulator to the modine heater all heat comes from that when the boiler is not running. However if the temputure on a second thermostat goes to low the oil boiler will start, which it has not done yet.
If I start a fire and set my coin timer to say three hours, and the boiler loop reaches say 170 this will allow the circulator to the baseboard to run at the same time as the circulator for the modine heater, so I get heat from both the blower and the baseboard in the whole house. Once the thermostat upstairs are satisfied the boiler loop reaches a temputure of 180 + the circulator for the tank starts and we start dumping heat to the storage tank. All I do is start the blower on the boiler and throw wood in I always have coals to start the fire right up, and gasification is within 10 minutes.
I am using the dip tubes and no hx in the tank, the dip tubes work well no problem getting the pumps to prime at all. The tank does seem to heat evenly all around and has not gone lower then 148 .
I do have some pictures, they are not great but they will give you some idea.
Steve
If I start a fire and set my coin timer to say three hours, and the boiler loop reaches say 170 this will allow the circulator to the baseboard to run at the same time as the circulator for the modine heater, so I get heat from both the blower and the baseboard in the whole house. Once the thermostat upstairs are satisfied the boiler loop reaches a temputure of 180 + the circulator for the tank starts and we start dumping heat to the storage tank. All I do is start the blower on the boiler and throw wood in I always have coals to start the fire right up, and gasification is within 10 minutes.
I am using the dip tubes and no hx in the tank, the dip tubes work well no problem getting the pumps to prime at all. The tank does seem to heat evenly all around and has not gone lower then 148 .
I do have some pictures, they are not great but they will give you some idea.
Steve
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Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
Great. Sounds like the Black Bear works a lot better than the Adobe. Where is your pump in relation to the top of the tank, Maine? How are your diptubes situated in the tank? Do you reverse flow for storage vs. recovery, or does it get the job done pumping in one direction?
And I forget--what kind of hx are you using? A flat plate?
And I forget--what kind of hx are you using? A flat plate?
It's been a long time since I posted to this forum, I have been busy living life, and trying to make a living. Yes I am still running my Black Bear Boiler and still using the same tank liner I put in back in 2007. I have had zero problems with the tank and boiler, however I have made a few modifications. I also am using the radiant floor I stapled up and it really works well, very comfortable heat. It has been three years since I have burned any oil, as a matter of fact my oil boiler has been on the blink for those three years, just got it going this week. I also have been running the Black Bear all summer to heat domestic hot water, with the tank I only need to light a fire once every two weeks for just the two of us. So far the only thing that I have had to replace on the boiler is one center bottom brick, all the others are still fine. I am sure at some time in the near future I will have to replace others, but I am looking good for now.
I just wanted to bump this up to let people know I haven't died, and I am still running everything pretty much the same. Next project is to generate electricity with the boiler, not really that hard to do..
Steve
I just wanted to bump this up to let people know I haven't died, and I am still running everything pretty much the same. Next project is to generate electricity with the boiler, not really that hard to do..
Steve
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