Vermont Casting damage control

Diabel said:

I also spoke with them about the glowing red thing. All three said "too much draft" & it should be prevented 'no stove should glow red'! A manual flue damper is a way to go to eliminate glowing. They strongly encouraged not to tinker with the everburn intake (tin foil fix). I will be off to HD to pick one up & I think at the same time I will get one of these in pipe probe thermometers. The one I have (magnetic) on the flue collar is pretty much useless. How high should I install that damper?

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I installed my flue damper about 18 inches above stove. I use it only when the stove is threatening to overfire/ glow red......and after a year I can tell when this might occur....The damper works fine to calm down the fire.

Hey, that'd be fine with me too..I would be all for VC products that work for everyone. The fact that you are having some success indicates you are close to the design point with your installation; and I am happy for you that you aren't getting stuck with an expensive product that you can't use or take back.
I would be very happy to see a VC line with burn tubes that actually works at a reasonable level of attention: they still have a killer look to them.
Let's hope for the sake of the old times and all the folks that will need parts, etc. in the long run.

In fact, I have the Defiant CAT still and intend to rebuild it and use it somewhere here, because it is a great stove. Corie is taking the NC to their research facility, so that's fine w/me too. (my wife won't let me sell it to a person who intends to heat their house with it, saying that it'd be like selling a car to someone when you know its a lemon)

On the lite side, I was going to VT for a weekend at the Woodstock Inn and this Snow and Ice storm caused me to cancel. I hear that there are a number of accidents on the way. We were looking forward to being in VT for a few days; another time I guess.

As Gulland also alludes to, EPA has been stripped....pretty much a hollow agency whose current purpose is to deregulate, not regulate.

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My personal experience with the EPA is that they are in the business of making "feel good" decisions and not in the business of lowering pollution. Why else would they prevent large utility boilers from upgrading emissions equipment because it's not in the permit?

A recent job I worked on we proposed a new combustion control system and the EPA rejected it because it was not called out in the original permit. The new system was intended to lower emissions and save fuel.

As for the VC problems, I think any technology like Everburn that takes so much user intervention and fiddling might be okay for wood stove enthusiasts like us but for the common person who just wants heat isn't going to be a good solution. Simple and easy is always better.

Diabel said:

I also spoke with them about the glowing red thing. All three said "too much draft" & it should be prevented 'no stove should glow red'! A manual flue damper is a way to go to eliminate glowing. They strongly encouraged not to tinker with the everburn intake (tin foil fix). I will be off to HD to pick one up & I think at the same time I will get one of these in pipe probe thermometers. The one I have (magnetic) on the flue collar is pretty much useless. How high should I install that damper?

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Just curious - what reason did they give you for not recommending a mod to the air control? I can understand how the other options would be considered more "idiot proof", but based on the Gulland article, I think modifying the air control is probably the best (not to mention easiest and least expensive) way to go... (then again, there may be some good reason I can't think of not to do this with an everburn stove). The problem with dampers is that they can block your airflow even when open, especially after they become "junked up", you have to remove them to sweep your chimney, and if you forget to open it fully before opening your stove door you may get back puffing of smoke.

tradergordo said:

Diabel said:

I also spoke with them about the glowing red thing. All three said "too much draft" & it should be prevented 'no stove should glow red'! A manual flue damper is a way to go to eliminate glowing. They strongly encouraged not to tinker with the everburn intake (tin foil fix). I will be off to HD to pick one up & I think at the same time I will get one of these in pipe probe thermometers. The one I have (magnetic) on the flue collar is pretty much useless. How high should I install that damper?

Click to expand...

Just curious - what reason did they give you for not recommending a mod to the air control? I can understand how the other options would be considered more "idiot proof", but based on the Gulland article, I think modifying the air control is probably the best (not to mention easiest and least expensive) way to go... (then again, there may be some good reason I can't think of not to do this with an everburn stove). The problem with dampers is that they can block your airflow even when open, especially after they become "junked up", you have to remove them to sweep your chimney, and if you forget to open it fully before opening your stove door you may get back puffing of smoke.

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They basically said that by modifying the intake you're messing with the stove design, voiding warranty & in case of a potential house fire caused by the modified stove it would void any house insurance claim. Whereas a damper even though not recommended by VC is a widely accepted remedy for over fire prevention.

Chinook said:

swestall you are right on look of the vc stoves. But just being easy on the eyes isn’t enough for me. As I understand it the everburn is approved for a few more years (after that I don’t know if it has to be retested or what) as for secondary burnt tubes aren’t the resolute and the encore using secondary burns of this type?

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Well, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I stopped looking at the VC stoves after getting so mad with them. I hope they are on their way to something like that and simple as can be too.
I think there should be some agency that could make them recall the Everburn; not because some get it to work but because others either get runaway temps, glowing stoves or like me can't get it to work and it creates a creosote mess in their previously good chimney.
We will have to see what happens here; if nothing else it is interesting.

Andy Rooney would say, did you ever wonder why so many topics on the Hearth have to do with Vermont Castings products?

swestall said:

Chinook said:

swestall you are right on look of the vc stoves. But just being easy on the eyes isn’t enough for me. As I understand it the everburn is approved for a few more years (after that I don’t know if it has to be retested or what) as for secondary burnt tubes aren’t the resolute and the encore using secondary burns of this type?

Click to expand...

Well, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I stopped looking at the VC stoves after getting so mad with them. I hope they are on their way to something like that and simple as can be too.
I think there should be some agency that could make them recall the Everburn; not because some get it to work but because others either get runaway temps, glowing stoves or like me can't get it to work and it creates a creosote mess in their previously good chimney.
We will have to see what happens here; if nothing else it is interesting.

Andy Rooney would say, did you ever wonder why so many topics on the Hearth have to do with Vermont Castings products?

Click to expand...

They should at the very least tag them or make the dealer understand the optimum requirement for it to work properly. I will have a follow up with issues I had with some small details that could of been a huge problem. Oh well, all said I'd still buy another CAT version tomorrow it's like this thing was built specific for my application. Not to mention the looks.

Mandoo said:

swestall said:

Chinook said:

swestall you are right on look of the vc stoves. But just being easy on the eyes isn’t enough for me. As I understand it the everburn is approved for a few more years (after that I don’t know if it has to be retested or what) as for secondary burnt tubes aren’t the resolute and the encore using secondary burns of this type?

Click to expand...

Well, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I stopped looking at the VC stoves after getting so mad with them. I hope they are on their way to something like that and simple as can be too.
I think there should be some agency that could make them recall the Everburn; not because some get it to work but because others either get runaway temps, glowing stoves or like me can't get it to work and it creates a creosote mess in their previously good chimney.
We will have to see what happens here; if nothing else it is interesting.

Andy Rooney would say, did you ever wonder why so many topics on the Hearth have to do with Vermont Castings products?

Click to expand...

They should at the very least tag them or make the dealer understand the optimum requirement for it to work properly. I will have a follow up with issues I had with some small details that could of been a huge problem. Oh well, all said I'd still buy another CAT version tomorrow it's like this thing was built specific for my application. Not to mention the looks.

Click to expand...

Imagine that " VC NC user not friendly" tag on VC NC stoves!! Dealers I spoke with apparently inform their potential customers about the VC NC stoves not being your typical "automatic" or "weekend burner" stoves. Mind you these are sales/commission people!

Well I was thinking more on the lines of Minimum Draft requirement tag, at least the consumer may stand a chance. My dealer (shop Owner) steered us away from it stating it was not yet perfected and the Cat was still the way to go. Thinking back I'm shocked Mr. drop of the stove and walk out the door even knew about issues.

Any dealer worth their salt will always know about these little issues. We regularly refused to sell certain stoves for specific situations.....and people always listened. You will not find manufacturers discussing their nuances, like a soapstone maker is unlikely to say "our stove is for the 24/7 burner". etc.....because it is somewhat assumed that the buyer or dealer knows this much.

If the stove passes EPA and the UL standards and burns wood, then they are free to sell it. You, of course, are free to buy it or not buy it.

Imagine if computers used to have tags - "This PC is not nearly as easy to use an a Mac, and if you want to buy it anyway you will have to install lots of virus protection, get it serviced often to remove spyware and other junk, and go to classes to learn the basics- The stock Internet browser will cause thousands of pop-ups and other problems, so if you want a good experience, download Firefox".

Ah, in a perfect world. As it is, the VC stoves seem to be working for a lot of folks, yet are too complicated for some others. So what else is new - we've had folks on here who had old Defiants for 25+ years and never used them in the downdraft mode!

"we’ve had folks on here who had old Defiants for 25+ years and never used them in the downdraft mode!"


Hard to believe but does make some sense. Buy a house that has a stove already installed form the previous owner. Hey it's a wood burning stove put wood in and bun it!

What is the difference between "downdraft" & "everburn" none I believe, just a different name right. If so, then this technology has been around for 25+ I thought that VC everburn came on the market just in the past few years...

Thanks BG.