Advice on Vermont Castings defiant encore

You should re-price the parts and see what they cost now. I think it if it gets to $700 or over you may want to consider selling the unit for parts or as-is. It is a beautiful stove, but economics has to come into play at some point.

The rebuild kit will include the upper and lower firebacks, the refractory package, and the hood. That probably is going to run you around $500 there. Then the Cats are right under $200

Stovehugger - Follow the advice and reprice everything you think you need... I just sunk $400 in parts for my seven year old Encore 2550. It adds up fast and now even faster since 1/1/08.
AGE

My (tainted) advice would be to get a different stove as I just don't see it getting any better w/VC.

as a hearth retailer i say buy a new stove. VC parts are very expensive. Chances are next year you will spend another $200. I don't sell any stoves with cats in them. Too expensive to replace every 3 to 5 years.

I have a model 0028 defiant encore, it is well worth the investment in parts IMHO. The convenience of top loading, swing out ashpan, and cast iron construction are hard to beat. Plus it looks great. Your stove was built by the "original" VC prior to the CFM takeover, so it is a quality product. I have used my encore hard for 19 winters burning 24x7 in upstate NY, and it has held up well. I wouldn't trade it for any other stove out there.

I have the first version of the same stove, and am facing the same problem now, whether to do a complete overhaul on it or not. What complicated it in my case is that I put in the fireback kit about 4-5 years ago, and when I opened it up to check the cat today I found the cat totally gone except for the twisted and warped metal box, and the stainless steel heat exchanger it fits against the cat completely warped and twisted to the point where there was hardly any space for the smoke to get past!

I can't figure out how it could have gotten so warped. We were pretty casual about leaving the ash door open to get it started, etc, the first time around, but after doing the full rebuild 4-5 years ago we greatly cleaned up our act it hasn't been overfired since. So I got to wonder if maybe the replacement parts weren't as good as the originals.

VC parts have really gone up in price lately! The fireback kit is still a relative bargain, compared to the cost of individual parts. If I decide to rebuild rather than just get a newer, no-cat stove, I'll be putting in the full kit again just because it is cheaper than replacing just the refractory box and the heat exchanger. If you wait to long to make up your mind you may not be able to afford to do anything - so probably best to either rebuild it now, or dump it!

What a lot of people don't realize about these stoves, is they are not really iron stoves, in the traditional sense, but flimsy refractory and steel sheet stoves, inside an iron case. Wish I had realized that before I bought it?

I've had a many of these VC stoves apart to the point where there in a pile to be re-built. Never once have I seen anything such as sheet steel on the insides of these fireboxes.

STOVEGUY11 said:

I've had a many of these VC stoves apart to the point where there in a pile to be re-built. Never once have I seen anything such as sheet steel on the insides of these fireboxes.

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Stoveguy is right, they are cast iron, but they do have various materials within them.

Honestly, I am so upset that all those folks in Vermont are going to be out. I really hope some company acquires the good part and makes a go of the foundry in some way saving jobs for VT and USA.

Beyond that, I am so sick and tired of VC that I welcome either a new start or wave goodby. Facing the facts that in recent times they have just not done it for the user.

FWIW, my stove dealer talked me out of a VC and into a Quad. The steel never warps and needs rebuilding like a cast stove. He also said that they had been having problems getting parts from VC (long lead times and bad customer service). I've been very happy with the Quad, but I am about to find out how inclusive their warranty is. I will report back when I have details.

Actually, I never said firebox. what I was referring to was the crummy bend stainless steel parts like the "heat exchanger" and the refractory box cover. These are just aren't up to the job - too damn flimsy and soon warp, which starts all kinds of other problems. the heat exchanger in mine warped so badly it curled around into the space where the cat was supposed to be, almost blocking the passage entirely.

STOVEGUY11 said:

I've had a many of these VC stoves apart to the point where there in a pile to be re-built. Never once have I seen anything such as sheet steel on the insides of these fireboxes.

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Hello! I feel your pain! We have had the same problem, but think that we possibly found the problem causing the leak. There was a hole in the back rear corner of the stove. We found it only by sheer luck. My husband left the flashlight on under the back rear of the stove and noticed it lighting up when he stood up to get something. Prior to that we had the light inside and couldn't find any light shining anywhere and all the gaskets seemed to be working as per the paper test.

What did you mean by "The fireback kit is still a relative bargain, compared to the cost of individual parts." What kit? Nobody ever mentioned any type of kit available for us...what does it include?

We too are trying to determine if we should rebuild our VCDE (enamaled beige, and a very nice peice of art) again as we finally think that we found the problem that's been causing it to overheat in places which eventually has warped everything at some point.
But we also are considering the England 50-30snc30lc this year after hearing about it, but we have mixed feelings about leaving the VCDE which has been a great stove up until the last 5 years or so, due to the leak we never could find....we never burned it hotter than the safe range as noted on the stovetop thermometer, so we couldn't figure out why it was warping as we weren't seeing the temp of the stove outside of the safe range... but we have been rebuilding it annually for at least the last 5 years and my hubby was getting tired of it...plus the cost of the repairs even when he was doing the labor was pricey...we probably could have bought a couple of steel stoves at their retail price for the cost of the repairs we did over the last 5 years)

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slindo said:

I have the first version of the same stove, and am facing the same problem now, whether to do a complete overhaul on it or not. What complicated it in my case is that I put in the fireback kit about 4-5 years ago, and when I opened it up to check the cat today I found the cat totally gone except for the twisted and warped metal box, and the stainless steel heat exchanger it fits against the cat completely warped and twisted to the point where there was hardly any space for the smoke to get past!

I can't figure out how it could have gotten so warped. We were pretty casual about leaving the ash door open to get it started, etc, the first time around, but after doing the full rebuild 4-5 years ago we greatly cleaned up our act it hasn't been overfired since. So I got to wonder if maybe the replacement parts weren't as good as the originals.

VC parts have really gone up in price lately! The fireback kit is still a relative bargain, compared to the cost of individual parts. If I decide to rebuild rather than just get a newer, no-cat stove, I'll be putting in the full kit again just because it is cheaper than replacing just the refractory box and the heat exchanger. If you wait to long to make up your mind you may not be able to afford to do anything - so probably best to either rebuild it now, or dump it!

What a lot of people don't realize about these stoves, is they are not really iron stoves, in the traditional sense, but flimsy refractory and steel sheet stoves, inside an iron case. Wish I had realized that before I bought it?

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The fireback kit is includes (last time I bought one, that is) the upper and lower cast iron fireback, refractory package, SS "heat exhanger", thermostat probe, and odd bits of refractory tape, seals and cement, plus good instructions. Basically all you need for a major rebuild but the cat.

When i last priced these parts, just the stupid heat exchanger was just under $200. and the refractory assembly a abit under $400 and the two cast iron parts probably even more. So the fireback kit is, at about $450, still as close to a deal as you'll ever get from VC. It is priced so far below everything else that you almost wonder if someone at VC just forgot to raise the price on it when they upped everything else (no one ever seems to list the kit, you have to ask for it and have them look up the part #)/ So if I needed one now, I would grab one, since I really think it is unlikely you will ever see it cheaper again (assuming it is still that cheap, there was a price increase at the beginning of the month). And VC is discontinuing parts support for early stoves, so while the cat Encores seem safe for now, there are no guarantees in the long run.

My plan (assuming I eveer get my kit - they are backordered) is to take the heat exchanger down to my sheet metal shop and see what they want to run off a few spares (maybe even thicker metal with proper cross-braking), and take careful measurements and notes on the refractory box so I could duplicate it, just in case I (or anyone else here) ever needs to).

BTW, early Encores pounded the refractory package to death by slamming the bypass door down on top of it everything you opened it. It is possible to make a little piece that goes across and prevents this from happening.

Greenie2008 said:

What did you mean by "The fireback kit is still a relative bargain, compared to the cost of individual parts." What kit? Nobody ever mentioned any type of kit available for us...what does it include?

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Slilndo,

Do you know where I might find the rebuild kit or fireback kit for my VCDE 2190? I've been trying everywhere and nobody knows what I'm talking about or can find the part number. I just bought this stove for a couple hundred bucks but it needs an upper fireback, refractory kit, cat and thermo probe...I just ordered a cat for $175 and I'd like to keep the rest of the parts under $500 if possible.

Thanks...

Just the refractory is looking at $280 msrp. You might be talking more than $500 for everything

Oh Im sorry your in luck. Part number is 0005926, and msrp is $491

Perfect Thanks for the help, can I ask where you got that info, or where is somewhere you might suggest to order it?

Thanks so much, I've just found this site but can already tell it's INCREDIBLY helpful!

Awesome...Have all the parts on order now and the total cost of stove and all parts, shipping, etc is under $1,000 out the door...which was my goal! Now I have to focus on getting the chimney and hearth installed, the chimney's pretty significant so I have a certified installer coming to do most of the work...with any luck at all I'll be able to have the entire project...stove, repairs, chimney and hearth done for around $2,000. I don't know about you all, but I think that's pretty sweet for a nice, great looking wood stove.