Freestanding in fireplace--is this true?

I went to a showroom today to look at Napolean wood stoves. I want to put a freestanding in my existing masonry fireplace. The guy told me that I can't, because you need clearance from the top of the unit. So he tried to sell me an insert, which I really don't want. The fireplace is lined with fire brick--why would you need clearance? It doesn't sound right to me. How much clearance would you need in that situation (rear, sides, top)?

Also, I could use a little advice about which model to get. We went to another dealer and they have two freestanding Napolean wood stove models, the 1600c and the 1100c (they said that we should be able to put a freestanding in our fireplace). We are unsure which one we would want to get. We would only have an inch of top clearance with the 1100c, whereas with the 1600c would give us 6 inches. The 1100c is about $550 cheaper, with steel inner lining instead of all cast iron. The 1100c has fewer emmissions, but the 1600c has a double door which seems like it would be annoying. We would have to extend the hearth about 8 inches for the 1600c.

We may end up having to get the 1600c because the pipe comes out the back and the 1100c's comes out the top--it may be that the 1100c won't fit. But if it does fit, would it be worth saving $550 by buying the 1100c?

Oh, and how much should a liner kit for a two story house cost? One place quoted me $500, the other $600, both with around $500 for install.

Thanks, guys.

I'm at work so I don't have access to my camera (I did take pics of the fireplace but haven't uploaded them yet) but I will post them later. The wood mantle is about 6-8 inches above the opening of the fireplace.

What got me was that the one dealer was saying that I need clearance BEHIND the unit. First of all, the 1100c is meant to put its heat out the front and sides, not the back. Second, behind the unit would be fire brick. I don't think that's right, but I don't know that much about this stuff.

As far as choosing between the units, what is the benefit of having a full cast iron stove rather than a steel box inside a cast iron stove?

Oh, and I think the PE t5 is an awesome stove and would want to get it, but it goes back to the whole issue with the pipe and how my fireplace is configured. I don't know if we can get a freestanding where the pipe is a full 10 inches from the back of the unit. If so, the T5 is a definite possibility. Otherwise we may be going with the napoleon 1600c (although I hesitate since there are no reviews of it on this site). I really like how the top of the T5 swings out for a cookspace. It's also a steel box surrounded by cast iron like the 1100c--is that a good thing or a bad thing?

The installation manuals are confusing me. First, I don't understand what single and double wall connectors are (sorry, I'm really new). Second, would the top clearance be about the same as the side clearance? If so, I may have a problem. I have about 13" clearance from the top of a 28" tall model. However, the Jotul Oslo has an optional short leg accessory especially for fireplace installations, perhaps lowering it enough. We haven't gone to the Jotul dealer yet, though--they're a little farther away.

First I want to thank you all for helping me so much. I just had the guy from one of the dealers in here looking at our fireplace. Its not really so deep, so we may need to either go with an insert, get a heat shield for the top, or put a hood on the top lip of the fireplace opening to protect our mantle. Our mantle is 41 inches from the bottom of the fireplace opening, so if we got the shorter legs for a Jotul (which offers a rear w/top exit heat shield but not a top heat shield), it would be a 15 inch clearance. The manuals are calling for 30 inches, if I'm reading correctly. I don't know how much extra clearance a top heat shield would give us (a lot, I hope).

I uploaded a photo of our fireplace. I guess it should appear to the left? I don't know if you can see, but the mantle sticks out less than 3 inches from the brick, and the wood below the actual mantle (the whole 5 ft W x 1 ft H piece) only sticks out 5/8 inch, so that might fall under "trim" rather than "mantle" category. Then our mantle would actually be 55 inches above the hearth.

Thanks for the section of the manual, that helps.

Do you think a vertical combustible material clearance would differ from a mantle clearance? I would think that the mantle, since it sticks out, would trap heat and get hotter than trim that sticks out less than an inch would. The mantle itself only sticks out 2.5 inches. Of course I want to err on the side of safety. *Actually, looking at the manual again, I think the clearance for anything LESS than 3.5 is still 51". I have only 42". I can get the mantle heat shield, however.

I have no problems with extending my hearth into the room, so maybe even a stove with a rear shield that is installed on the hearth, out of the fireplace, would work.

I can't see us ripping out an original, c. 1800 mantle. I would really like to work around it, if possible.

The skirt under the mantle is 41" above the hearth. The columns on the side are 55.5" apart. Thanks for the tip on pictures, BeGreen. The second dealer that we talked to (the one that came out to our house today) said something about putting a heat shield there--although I have to admit I didn't know it was called a lintel. I thought that was something you make soup out of ;-P

I don't know if anyone here has had experience with putting a freestanding in an existing fireplace, but is it a problem if it sticks out a bit past the fireplace opening? Or could we just attach a bigger shield to the lintel? (Sorry I ask so many questions)

We're trying to have the freestanding put completely in the fireplace. There are several models that will fit. We're choosing between the Jotul Castine and the Napoleon 1600c because of their dimensions. Both of them would fit in the fireplace without jutting out past the opening. We would still want to go with a mantel heat shield in any case. We could also go with the Jotul Kennebec insert, which would end up being more expensive. (Can you tell from the models that aesthetics are an issue? %-P )

Would something like this work as a mantel shield?:

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5MN-CABL

I don't know, it seems to me that since most of the heat from an open fire goes directly up the chimney it would put less heat on your mantel than a wood stove, which is also higher up (how high depending upon your model). Does your mantel get very hot?

BeGreen, Thanks for the tip. Sounds like that would work out fine. Would you attach it so that it points up or down? I know that the Jotul Kennebec manual shows a mantel shield pointing up. I think that a canopy style would look better, though. Of course, if it doesn't do the job then what's the point?