Let me start by saying I appreciate your answers...their biting thoroughness.
I hope you might see some humor too!
As for the lack of that tinkering inflamation, I am willing to learn.
Good - your on the path
My heat loss is in the 50000btu range. At 100BTU I could go from -20 up to 80 degrees (at least in theory).
OK now let play! Baby Boiler can work this load.
I read your discussion with brown. Your piping my be fine. But my second zone (150 foot loop) was being circ. by 007. The head loss in the pex loop was insane and the pump was not doing the trick. My wonderful plumber turns up boiler temp and goes with larger nozzle and I was able to get by. It was at that point I realized I needed to learn. Your conv. if nothing else reinforced my problem. So though it seemed frustrating, it re-confirmed work that I will need to get done while piping my new boiler (whatever that may be). I currently run a system 2000 oil fired boiler (beckett burner) and burn 1050 g a year. I hope this translates into 8-10 tons (I get approx 9 when I do the math, but theory concerns me.)
It appears common to me that a Plumbers solution for a cold room is simply turn up the heat on the boiler and send greater energy bearing liquid to the load - this equates to higher operational cost for the load and a less comfortable room. We can fix that by balancing the load - but that come later.
With all that being said, I have a question I do not know you can answer: What is your take on the Harman? Any concerns or questions you would ask a dealer? I have 2 local options (amaizing heat and harman)...
All these options are fine options - its like asking should I buy a Ford - a Dodge - or a Chevy - after all won't each get you back and forth to the grocery store??? Harmon is a little ahead in the curve on the technology that controls the boiler. I think the feed system works well - everyone says the resistance pellet auto lighting sucks - propane auto lighting seams the way to go but that is only in outhouse pellet boilers or far bigger engines. So the auto light feature of the Harmon is not a feature I covet! On the flip side with out auto light - now you idle the boiler till there is a call for heat from the load and that takes a couple pounds of fuel an hour... cost of fuel vs cost of resistance energy and replacing resistance elements --- wash - Maybe??? I like a standing flame and hot boiler to reduce the thermal cycling on the vessel. Amazing often doesn't eat straight pellets well and never dirty or dusty fuel - i have mixed saw dust into my pellets trying to clog the Traeger fed system and it kept up like the Energizer bunny
I think Harmon is off the table with the back order drama - Amazing - is a good machine but it looks like a water heater and thats what the base design was - from an old dry cleaner system of heating water. And I think their dealer network is a bunch of Amway salesman but opps too far again... sorry - Maybe Traeger is overbooked too by now - they are after all making grills for summer hehehe - I just can't let that go!
Last questions: I am unclear is the Traeger a fire tube (I thought it was) and I believe the Harman is... am I right, and is this good or bad, or just does not matter?
Traeger is a cheep design - not very efficient - vertical tube single pass vessel fire tube boiler. But the fire tubes are orientated and the appliance is built so the tubes are easily cleaned. Harmon is a water tube boiler - opps they like to call them selves a water wall boiler - same business - to clean it you have to GET IN there and its no Picnic. For that there is a better transfer efficiency - but that can easily be lost if you don't clean - and no one does because its a pain. Wait some one will tell you otherwise in a New York minute - ask you dealer about that maybe and see what BS you get. Traeger has the pot fit drama - you have to stand on your head - pivot on your elbow - and slip the heavy pot up onto the feed manifold when you remove and replace it for cleaning - no body is perfect - you have to pick something and deal with the short coming - hopefully you will be happy with the good features. If burning straight pellets - I made a couple of tools so I no longer have to R?R the pot - I also changed the pot a bit and get a better Delta T.
Your air handlers can be balanced to the load - then the out put of the boiler can be portioned to each loop.
Thats the opposite of how a plumber would set up the system. But I find myself again skating on thin ice casting dispersions at plumbers so I may as well head for the deep end.
What did the heat loss calculation predict for a water temperature (heat exchanger temperature) necessary to carry each loop load at -20???
If you can afford a BAXI (H S TARM) - if you can find one - buy it - all the above is mute.
I hope you might see some humor too!
As for the lack of that tinkering inflamation, I am willing to learn.
Good - your on the path
My heat loss is in the 50000btu range. At 100BTU I could go from -20 up to 80 degrees (at least in theory).
OK now let play! Baby Boiler can work this load.
I read your discussion with brown. Your piping my be fine. But my second zone (150 foot loop) was being circ. by 007. The head loss in the pex loop was insane and the pump was not doing the trick. My wonderful plumber turns up boiler temp and goes with larger nozzle and I was able to get by. It was at that point I realized I needed to learn. Your conv. if nothing else reinforced my problem. So though it seemed frustrating, it re-confirmed work that I will need to get done while piping my new boiler (whatever that may be). I currently run a system 2000 oil fired boiler (beckett burner) and burn 1050 g a year. I hope this translates into 8-10 tons (I get approx 9 when I do the math, but theory concerns me.)
It appears common to me that a Plumbers solution for a cold room is simply turn up the heat on the boiler and send greater energy bearing liquid to the load - this equates to higher operational cost for the load and a less comfortable room. We can fix that by balancing the load - but that come later.
With all that being said, I have a question I do not know you can answer: What is your take on the Harman? Any concerns or questions you would ask a dealer? I have 2 local options (amaizing heat and harman)...
All these options are fine options - its like asking should I buy a Ford - a Dodge - or a Chevy - after all won't each get you back and forth to the grocery store??? Harmon is a little ahead in the curve on the technology that controls the boiler. I think the feed system works well - everyone says the resistance pellet auto lighting sucks - propane auto lighting seams the way to go but that is only in outhouse pellet boilers or far bigger engines. So the auto light feature of the Harmon is not a feature I covet! On the flip side with out auto light - now you idle the boiler till there is a call for heat from the load and that takes a couple pounds of fuel an hour... cost of fuel vs cost of resistance energy and replacing resistance elements --- wash - Maybe??? I like a standing flame and hot boiler to reduce the thermal cycling on the vessel. Amazing often doesn't eat straight pellets well and never dirty or dusty fuel - i have mixed saw dust into my pellets trying to clog the Traeger fed system and it kept up like the Energizer bunny
I think Harmon is off the table with the back order drama - Amazing - is a good machine but it looks like a water heater and thats what the base design was - from an old dry cleaner system of heating water. And I think their dealer network is a bunch of Amway salesman but opps too far again... sorry - Maybe Traeger is overbooked too by now - they are after all making grills for summer hehehe - I just can't let that go!Last questions: I am unclear is the Traeger a fire tube (I thought it was) and I believe the Harman is... am I right, and is this good or bad, or just does not matter?
Traeger is a cheep design - not very efficient - vertical tube single pass vessel fire tube boiler. But the fire tubes are orientated and the appliance is built so the tubes are easily cleaned. Harmon is a water tube boiler - opps they like to call them selves a water wall boiler - same business - to clean it you have to GET IN there and its no Picnic. For that there is a better transfer efficiency - but that can easily be lost if you don't clean - and no one does because its a pain. Wait some one will tell you otherwise in a New York minute - ask you dealer about that maybe and see what BS you get. Traeger has the pot fit drama - you have to stand on your head - pivot on your elbow - and slip the heavy pot up onto the feed manifold when you remove and replace it for cleaning - no body is perfect - you have to pick something and deal with the short coming - hopefully you will be happy with the good features. If burning straight pellets - I made a couple of tools so I no longer have to R?R the pot - I also changed the pot a bit and get a better Delta T.
Your air handlers can be balanced to the load - then the out put of the boiler can be portioned to each loop.
Thats the opposite of how a plumber would set up the system. But I find myself again skating on thin ice casting dispersions at plumbers so I may as well head for the deep end.
What did the heat loss calculation predict for a water temperature (heat exchanger temperature) necessary to carry each loop load at -20???
If you can afford a BAXI (H S TARM) - if you can find one - buy it - all the above is mute.
