Look what I found when I tore my old fireplace out.

stoveguy2esw · Jul 11, 2008

Corie said:
Hogwildz said:

Corie said:

Right now it's the Harley repair and upgrade shop, the Jotul rebuild area, the Gravely Model L repair area, and the Savage 99 checkering region.

Hahah

Click to expand...

Don't gimme excuses, just get my jumbo sized stove built damnit!
Looks like your shed needs an addition or two.

You still riding that girliy bike,,, er I mean sporty?

Click to expand...

Ya know it's a good thing I'm not sensitive about it! haha

Actually......I just added a bunch of stuff to the sporty but really, if the wife (in 16 days) would start making some real money, I'd buy a friggin Night Train or Street Bob tomorrow. Money is just too tight right now...

16 DAYS

! im gonna make a special trip to the lab to kick your hienie! , did you forget to tell someone????

Hogwildz · Jul 11, 2008

Corie said:
Hogwildz said:

Corie said:

Right now it's the Harley repair and upgrade shop, the Jotul rebuild area, the Gravely Model L repair area, and the Savage 99 checkering region.

Hahah

Click to expand...

Don't gimme excuses, just get my jumbo sized stove built damnit!
Looks like your shed needs an addition or two.

You still riding that girliy bike,,, er I mean sporty?

Click to expand...

Ya know it's a good thing I'm not sensitive about it! haha

Actually......I just added a bunch of stuff to the sporty but really, if the wife (in 16 days) would start making some real money, I'd buy a friggin Night Train or Street Bob tomorrow. Money is just too tight right now...

That poor gal has supported yer sorry arse for long enough. Marry her and now you take care & support her.
Sheesh, kids these days LOL. Does she have a sister you can hook me up with?

I need a woman to take care of me for a change.

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

jtp10181 said:
Trust me, you don't want to hook anything up to that preway garbage pipe. Your ONLY safe and legit option is to tear all that out and replace it with a UL listed Class A system UL103HT.

You might be able to sell the preway pipe on eBay, it is a hot item and hard to find.

I'll look on ebay, thanks for that idea.

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

I will have to respectfully disagree with GWB (aka. Pook, kooP, etc.)

You have had some very sound advise from Mike, Corie, JTP and others. These are the guys that are in the business and don't stand to make a buck off of feeding you a parts list you don't need. They are making these suggestions based on what will be the best and safest install. Please take that info to the bank. There are 2 things in Jags house that will not be compromised. Anything to do with electricity and anything to do with fire. They can both kill ya real good.

thechimneysweep · Jul 11, 2008

The pipe in the photo is Preway air-cooled chimney. It was listed only for use with Preway zero-clearance fireplaces, and is not approved to vent an airtight stove.

The other type of triple-wall mentioned in a couple of replies above is called air-insulated chimney

There are air-insulated chimneys that are approved to vent airtights (listed to UL 103 HT), but there are no air-cooled chimneys with that listing.

Can you render this air-cooled chimney usable for an airtight by lining it? No.
By packing between the layers with rock wool, cera blanket or vermiculite insulation? No.
By sealing it over at the top to trap the air and turn it into air-insulated chimney? No.
By mutating, migrating, mixing, merging, mating, or morphing it in any possible manner?

No.

If you want a safe and code-approved airtight wood stove installation, you must remove this chimney entirely, and install an insulated UL 103 HT chimney in its place.

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

thechimneysweep said:
By mutating, migrating, mixing, merging, mating, or morphing it in any possible manner?

No.

But Tom, what about mangling, maring or maneuvering?

Let me guess - NO.

Very well put Tom. Leaves no question unanswered for that pipe.

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

Global Worming Bust said:
]U FORGOT TO CONSIDER INSTALLING A LINER WITHIN TO MAKE THE 4TH WALL

You can put lipstick on a pig...but its still just a pig. :coolgrin:

fossil · Jul 11, 2008

Tom, are you sayin' it's impossible to chrome plate a turd? Rick

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

fossil said:
Tom, are you sayin' it's impossible to chrome plate a turd? Rick

Depends on how much iron is in your diet. :bug:

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

Glowball Worming Bust said:
Jags said:

Global Worming Bust said:

]U FORGOT TO CONSIDER INSTALLING A LINER WITHIN TO MAKE THE 4TH WALL

Click to expand...

You can put lipstick on a pig...but its still just a pig. :coolgrin:

Click to expand...

U CAN PULL LIPSTICK ON A DONKEY BUT ITS STILL JUST AN ASS! :kiss:

Ha,ha..Good one Pook.

But back to the pipe. A liner inside will still be transferring heat to an unapproved chimney, no matter how you cut it (splice it, dice it or otherwise).

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

Yeah, but GWB just makes me want to wash my hands more frequently. By typing that, my fingers feel more "dirty".

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

Ok so there is 24 inches between the top of my stove and the mantle which is wood. My stove says it must have a 56 inch clearance between the top of the stove and the cieling. While my stove is not approved for an alcove how can I protect this mantel and not have the stove halfway into my living room? If I just close off the hole in my living room I will have to use a very long pipe to get back to the chimney and lose an awful lot of floor space in the process.

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

Glowball Worming Bust said:
prof sez= if u cant hold hand on nearby combustible surface when stove is cranking & surface is hottest, it aint right
u got a tough act....good luck
codeman & ins. co. prevail

hhmm....well considering that when that moment arrives it will be to late to fix anything, thats not really an option now. I'm building the hearth and walls and everything. Thank you for your replies though.

Jags · Jul 11, 2008

tlhfirelion said:
Ok so there is 24 inches between the top of my stove and the mantle which is wood. My stove says it must have a 56 inch clearance between the top of the stove and the cieling. While my stove is not approved for an alcove how can I protect this mantel and not have the stove halfway into my living room? If I just close off the hole in my living room I will have to use a very long pipe to get back to the chimney and lose an awful lot of floor space in the process.

For me, that has always been a tough question to answer. Is the mantle considered a ceiling? or should it be considered a combustible and which measurements should be used. Maybe JTP or Stoveguy or Tom, or BG (or others) can jump in with that "definition".

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

Jags said:
tlhfirelion said:

Ok so there is 24 inches between the top of my stove and the mantle which is wood. My stove says it must have a 56 inch clearance between the top of the stove and the cieling. While my stove is not approved for an alcove how can I protect this mantel and not have the stove halfway into my living room? If I just close off the hole in my living room I will have to use a very long pipe to get back to the chimney and lose an awful lot of floor space in the process.

Click to expand...

For me, that has always been a tough question to answer. Is the mantle considered a ceiling? or should it be considered a combustible and which measurements should be used. Maybe JTP or Stoveguy or Tom, or BG (or others) can jump in with that "definition".

Yeah and I'm basically sitting here waiting for an answer. lol

begreen · Jul 11, 2008

Can you take a full wall shot of this project? I went back to look for one but couldn't find any. Otherwise I suspect you would have heard about the mantel earlier. If the pipe has to go and the veneer is getting messed up, hate to say it, but the tune going through my head is a line from Tobacco Road. (bring dynamite and a crane, blow it up and start all over again).

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

BeGreen said:
Can you take a full wall shot of this project? I went back to look for one but couldn't find any. Otherwise I suspect you would have heard about the mantel earlier. If the pipe has to go and the veneer is getting messed up, hate to say it, but the tune going through my head is a line from Tobacco Road. (bring dynamite and a crane, blow it up and start all over again).

Shots below.

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

To further explain I have plywood that is cut fior the back and side wall, and I do need to get that on today. Next is the roof of this firebox area, then the durock,, etc. I'm going to build the front out for the proper clearance and then just have the pipe go back and up to the chimney pipe from the top of the stove. I've been told the diameter of the new ht pipe is roughly 8" and requires a 2" clearance. I have 5" from this outer 10" pipe, but on the front it is only 2". If I replace that pipe then that would bump me up to 4" to the studs and insulation on the side of the pipe that faces "in" to the house. Clear as mud right? lol

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

oh and the mantel sticks out 7" from the wall.

begreen · Jul 11, 2008

OK, that helps. I want to make sure I have the dimensions correct. Is this an FW247001? or is it an FW270007? Do you have the clearances sheet for this stove? I'm not sure if I have the right one, but if it is, you'll need 17.5" minimum clearance on each side of the stove, so add 35" to the stove width. Is the current cavity wider than this combined dimension?

This is an alcove installation. As for the mantel, looks like it will have to go. The stove will need to have 54.5" clearance from the top of the stove to the nearest combustible above it. Is this boxed area a bump out from the house? Is the pipe chase exterior or interior?

MrMike115 · Jul 11, 2008

Firelion The whole thing you are trying to do is BOGUS! that chimney was for an old Preway fireplace and not designed for a wood stove. I wouldn't even sell you any parts if I knew beforehand what you were planning to do. Instead of looking for the cheapest way out and juryrigging everything why don't you visit a shop where the salesforce knows what they are talking about. Why take a chance on somebody at the Depot who probably doesn't have a clue about the correct way to do this. The big box stores sell the cheapest stuff they can get their hands on and only sell hearth seasonally. The components are usually brand name stuff but if they use the stuff differently than it was intended for you are asking for trouble. Remember you get what you pay for. and oh, one other thing, it's your house.
Why risk burning it down?

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

MrMike115 said:
Firelion The whole thing you are trying to do is BOGUS! that chimney was for an old Preway fireplace and not designed for a wood stove. I wouldn't even sell you any parts if I knew beforehand what you were planning to do. Instead of looking for the cheapest way out and juryrigging everything why don't you visit a shop where the salesforce knows what they are talking about. Why take a chance on somebody at the Depot who probably doesn't have a clue about the correct way to do this. The big box stores sell the cheapest stuff they can get their hands on and only sell hearth seasonally. The components are usually brand name stuff but if they use the stuff differently than it was intended for you are asking for trouble. Remember you get what you pay for. and oh, one other thing, it's your house.
Why risk burning it down?

Calm down man geesh. I'm not trying to do anything jerryrigged. The old pipe is coming out, I'm trying to install the walls and what not correctly. I don't need nor want a lecture but assistance and most everyone is giving that to me. Please don't reply to my threads anymore.

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

BeGreen said:
OK, that helps. I want to make sure I have the dimensions correct. Is this an FW247001? or is it an FW270007? Do you have the clearances sheet for this stove? I'm not sure if I have the right one, but if it is, you'll need 17.5" minimum clearance on each side of the stove, so add 35" to the stove width. Is the current cavity wider than this combined dimension?

This is an alcove installation. As for the mantel, looks like it will have to go. The stove will need to have 54.5" clearance from the top of the stove to the nearest combustible above it. Is this boxed area a bump out from the house? Is the pipe chase exterior or interior?

Well it is an alcove I'm building but a shallow one so the stove will actually be out in front. I will have the double walled chimney pipe connecting the stove to the chimney. It is the 07 I have.

I have all the clearances on this paper. Does this clearance from the entire top or from the front of the flue connector forward or what exactly? That will dictate my progress.

The width is 65" and the height of the opening is 45". The stove is 22" wide plus the 35" is 57" so I'm good on the width.

The chase is exterior. The wall you see with the mantle on it is the wall of the house.

begreen · Jul 11, 2008

It's for the entire top. And a 13" backwall clearance. By double-wall are you meaning class A pipe and not interior DVL pipe, correct? How will this pipe be supported? Are you removing the exterior chase cladding to do this?

tlhfirelion · Jul 11, 2008

So how does this sound. If I line up the back of the stove with the wall above it, I am outside the alcove, and I can remove the mantel and put up a stone one at a later date. No more combustibles directly above it. I wrote all the clearances on the decking I have down now and I'm ok with plenty to spare on the back and sides. I can finish the front deck to whatever it needs to be so I'm just hung up on the top clearance.

Look what I found when I tore my old fireplace out.

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