Harman, the REAL story

Giovanni said:

gw2kpro said:

mlwschultz said:

What does all of this mean for those us has that have just bought a Harman stove (that's been delivered & installed by the dealer)? The dealer just delivered 3 more tons of pellets Friday afternoon & said they are sold out of stoves for the year.

Click to expand...

Just like in any industry, if your dealer goes belly-up, best of luck getting service from them because they're no longer an entity. If the parent company goes belly-up, there's no more warranty, your recourse will have the words "class action" associated with them and will take years to get your $100 settlement.

This is one of the reasons that I bought my stoves for the absolute rock bottom deal I could find them online, I contracted one install and the other I'm doing myself. I have taken them both down and understand well how they work, and could do most repair work myself. I wasn't going to pay $1200-1500 more per stove to have the "peace of mind" of the local dealer (I have the "peace of mind" of having more than $2500 extra in my pocket between the two, which would buy me almost 2 more stoves) , I feel very bad for the people that are going to get hurt by thie Harman deal, there are going to be a lot of dealerships go out of business.

Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly!
John

Click to expand...

Same here. Saved hundreds online (enough to buy 3 ton of pellets) and there are plenty of little guys out there who do good work and need the work this winter to get all the service you need. Plus my online stove has full warrenty for parts.

Would you mind sharing what stove you bought? My head be spinning with all the choices.

pellet0708 said:

Giovanni said:

gw2kpro said:

mlwschultz said:

What does all of this mean for those us has that have just bought a Harman stove (that's been delivered & installed by the dealer)? The dealer just delivered 3 more tons of pellets Friday afternoon & said they are sold out of stoves for the year.

Click to expand...

Just like in any industry, if your dealer goes belly-up, best of luck getting service from them because they're no longer an entity. If the parent company goes belly-up, there's no more warranty, your recourse will have the words "class action" associated with them and will take years to get your $100 settlement.

This is one of the reasons that I bought my stoves for the absolute rock bottom deal I could find them online, I contracted one install and the other I'm doing myself. I have taken them both down and understand well how they work, and could do most repair work myself. I wasn't going to pay $1200-1500 more per stove to have the "peace of mind" of the local dealer (I have the "peace of mind" of having more than $2500 extra in my pocket between the two, which would buy me almost 2 more stoves) , I feel very bad for the people that are going to get hurt by thie Harman deal, there are going to be a lot of dealerships go out of business.

Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly!
John

Click to expand...

Same here. Saved hundreds online (enough to buy 3 ton of pellets) and there are plenty of little guys out there who do good work and need the work this winter to get all the service you need. Plus my online stove has full warrenty for parts.

Click to expand...

There is just way too many stories flying at this point, and impossible to figure which are true at this point. I have been talking to people about this for weeks and its giving me a headache. I cant wait to see how this all gets worked out. I dont even like pellet stoves, and I hate them more now!

My big question is.....Are dealers For Harman going to at least see the stoves that have been Alocated to them, or is it over?

I talked to my harman dealer this morning, he just got back from the plant last night.
His story...
He will get enough stoves for all deposits he took, as long as some folks don't mind waiting until Nov for theirs. he is one of 3 dealers who are that lucky. He was also smart enough to stop taking deposits in early july when harman stopped providing estimated delivery dates.
Harman told them that they have put $7million into the plant in the last 6 weeks trying to ramp up production and retooling the lines.
He claims the plant was the busiest he has ever seen it.
Harman is not in danger of closing, and will still produce stoves in the US.

The dealers who thought they could actually sell/build 4x the stoves as last year are the ones who will have issues.

My story. Put a deposit on a P61A June 5th, that was already on order for dealer stock and was due in mid July, after getting new hard numbers from harman the date is now early sept. I can live with that.

Now I just have to get a date on my pellet delivery.

What a difference a day makes! Any predictions that tomorrow's Harman news turns back to doom and gloom?

Thanks for the update

Your explanation sounds a lot more valid than the other "theories" about the demise of Harman.

I have a stove ordered June 7th so I hope Harman does a first in first out remedy. If they were/are smart they Harman should send a letter to each customer with a deposit on a stove indicating that they will attempt to deliver the stove at a projected date.
The dealers will probably do nothing since most appear to be mom and pop operations.

if your dealer was one looking at refunding deposits his outlook may not be the same.

"He will get enough stoves for all deposits he took, as long as some folks don’t mind waiting until Nov for theirs. he is one of 3 dealers who are that lucky."

ok,so if you are lucky enough to have a stove ordered by "one of 3 dealers" you might actually get it this fall,early winter.

thats good news??

assuming they are not making this up to continue to lead on the dealers,how do I know if my dealer hit the lottery?

your dealer should have info this week to give you a realistic date.

If your dealer sold 50 stoves last year and your deposit is his #235 for this year you are probably not going to be happy.

Webmaster said:

Stoveguy, like the sig......


As to the Harman situation, I think most of the stuff guessed at or otherwise stated here is pretty accurate. There is no one reason for stuff like this, just a combination of bozos. Read Dilbert for more......

Click to expand...

The Harman situation / mystery is not good but speculation and guessing adds nothing. Trashing them and name calling unknown individuals doesn`t help the situation either. Not that I`m defending them but anyone who paid up front for a stove not in stock has to assume some of the liability for being so foolish along with those money grabbing opportunistic dealers..
To be sure, I definitely would not have put down more than $50 to secure a stove that was not in stock. If the dealer doesn`t have the resources to finance inventory he probably shouldn`t be in the business.
Let`s just hope that Harman doesn`t go belly up and that they eventually deliver most of what some money hungry dealers promised.
All this negativity is bad for everyone.
John

Giovanni said:

Webmaster said:

Stoveguy, like the sig......


As to the Harman situation, I think most of the stuff guessed at or otherwise stated here is pretty accurate. There is no one reason for stuff like this, just a combination of bozos. Read Dilbert for more......

Click to expand...

The Harman situation / mystery is not good but speculation and guessing adds nothing. Trashing them and name calling unknown individuals doesn`t help the situation either. Not that I`m defending them but anyone who paid up front for a stove not in stock has to assume some of the liability for being so foolish along with those money grabbing opportunistic dealers..
To be sure, I definitely would not have put down more than $50 to secure a stove that was not in stock. If the dealer doesn`t have the resources to finance inventory he probably shouldn`t be in the business.
Let`s just hope that Harman doesn`t go belly up and that they eventually deliver most of what some money hungry dealers promised.
All this negativity is bad for everyone.
John

Click to expand...

EXACTLY!

Try and get a dealer to hold a stove for just $50 when they have a demand like there was this spring. When I was shopping,early June over 90 outside and the fireplace shops where full of customers.
I doubt any dealer who did not take a sizeable deposit will be around long.

easy to say what you would or wouldn't do on a message board, much harder to put in action when you are buying one.

nhdblfan said:

Try and get a dealer to hold a stove for just $50 when they have a demand like there was this spring. When I was shopping,early June over 90 outside and the fireplace shops where full of customers.
I doubt any dealer who did not take a sizeable deposit will be around long.

easy to say what you would or wouldn't do on a message board, much harder to put in action when you are buying one.

Click to expand...

No, not at all. We all have our tipping points. If you were one of those who ran scared and tied up a tidy sum of money on a promise that`s your personal predicament but I would refuse to be held hostage by some unscrupulous stove shop proprietor who demands full payment up front or an unreasonably large deposit . There are other choices. I wouldn`t go falling in love with any particular pellet stove over their looks. They all throw similar amounts of heat and some cost considerably less too.
I mean we are buying a stove here, not a wife.

Giovanni said:

nhdblfan said:

Try and get a dealer to hold a stove for just $50 when they have a demand like there was this spring. When I was shopping,early June over 90 outside and the fireplace shops where full of customers.
I doubt any dealer who did not take a sizeable deposit will be around long.

easy to say what you would or wouldn't do on a message board, much harder to put in action when you are buying one.

Click to expand...

No, not at all. We all have our tipping points. If you were one of those who ran scared and tied up a tidy sum of money on a promise that`s your personal predicament but I would refuse to be held hostage by some unscrupulous stove shop proprietor who demands full payment up front or an unreasonably large deposit .

Click to expand...

Your "tipping point", which is no more then message board BS ,would have got you a simple "theres the door" and "next" and I wouldn't have blamed them.Look at it from a sellers point,"Lets see line of real customers here and some bozo who is looking to order $4k and does not want to put any serious money up,hmmm."
Again, tell me the name a of that stove shop that takes orders on several thousand dollar stoves for less than a tank of gas??????Can you even go to Lowes,Home Depot and do that NO.

nhdblfan said:

Giovanni said:

nhdblfan said:

Try and get a dealer to hold a stove for just $50 when they have a demand like there was this spring. When I was shopping,early June over 90 outside and the fireplace shops where full of customers.
I doubt any dealer who did not take a sizeable deposit will be around long.

easy to say what you would or wouldn't do on a message board, much harder to put in action when you are buying one.

Click to expand...

No, not at all. We all have our tipping points. If you were one of those who ran scared and tied up a tidy sum of money on a promise that`s your personal predicament but I would refuse to be held hostage by some unscrupulous stove shop proprietor who demands full payment up front or an unreasonably large deposit .

Click to expand...

Your "tipping point", which is no more then message board BS ,would have got you a simple "theres the door" and "next" and I wouldn't have blamed them.Look at it from a sellers point,"Lets see line of real customers here and some bozo who is looking to order $4k and does not want to put any serious money up,hmmm."
Again, tell me the name a of that stove shop that takes orders on several thousand dollar stoves for less than a tank of gas??????Can you even go to Lowes,Home Depot and do that NO.

Click to expand...

Judging by your anger you sound like you fell for someone`s "BS" and not mine.
Ok , I can go along with the usual 10% down payment but shelling out any more has to be silly on the purchasers part and edging close to being suckered.
Legitimate shop owners and smart business folk don`t usually show potential customers the door or require unreasonable down payments. What`s happening presently is a blip and over a short period of time this situation will level out.
Lighten up and be patient.

nhdblfan said:

"He will get enough stoves for all deposits he took, as long as some folks don’t mind waiting until Nov for theirs. he is one of 3 dealers who are that lucky."

ok,so if you are lucky enough to have a stove ordered by "one of 3 dealers" you might actually get it this fall,early winter.

thats good news??

assuming they are not making this up to continue to lead on the dealers,how do I know if my dealer hit the lottery?

Click to expand...

Possibly those 3 dealers weren`t greedy and didn`t promise more than the 110% they were told they could sell.

I wonder what a manufacturer requests, when a dealer puts in a stove order, I have not idea.

who knows how much harman would want as a deposit.

I put 500$ down on the stove I ordered.

If everyone didnt have to put a deposit down, then I could go to 5 Harman dealers and order one. Then first one comes in I buy and blow off the other 4 dealers?? Of course that makes it look like to Harman that they have a boat load of orders.

I hope a lot of people cancel and the serious people who are willing to ride it out get a stove. Perhaps the other folks will find another stove from someone else.

I still feel Haramn should promise dealers nothing and tell them that they will satisfy current oreders by the date they were entered into Harman's system. That way people who ordered first get their stoves first, not some dealer who speculated and ordered a bunch of unsold stoves.

Giovanni said:

nhdblfan said:

Giovanni said:

nhdblfan said:

Try and get a dealer to hold a stove for just $50 when they have a demand like there was this spring. When I was shopping,early June over 90 outside and the fireplace shops where full of customers.
I doubt any dealer who did not take a sizeable deposit will be around long.

easy to say what you would or wouldn't do on a message board, much harder to put in action when you are buying one.

Click to expand...

No, not at all. We all have our tipping points. If you were one of those who ran scared and tied up a tidy sum of money on a promise that`s your personal predicament but I would refuse to be held hostage by some unscrupulous stove shop proprietor who demands full payment up front or an unreasonably large deposit .

Click to expand...

Your "tipping point", which is no more then message board BS ,would have got you a simple "theres the door" and "next" and I wouldn't have blamed them.Look at it from a sellers point,"Lets see line of real customers here and some bozo who is looking to order $4k and does not want to put any serious money up,hmmm."
Again, tell me the name a of that stove shop that takes orders on several thousand dollar stoves for less than a tank of gas??????Can you even go to Lowes,Home Depot and do that NO.

Click to expand...

Judging by your anger you sound like you fell for someone`s "BS" and not mine.
Ok , I can go along with the usual 10% down payment but shelling out any more has to be silly on the purchasers part and edging close to being suckered.
Legitimate shop owners and smart business folk don`t usually show potential customers the door or require unreasonable down payments. What`s happening presently is a blip and over a short period of time this situation will level out.
Lighten up and be patient.

Click to expand...

Ok I will try this real sloooooooow so you understand.You are not going to find ANY dealer who will take $50 down on a item he has to order that is several thousand dollars.This is especially true when the market is strong.He has to put money up when he places a order.
There was NO being silly or anthing cloe to being "suckered".You obviously have not been around any business or done any purchasing of a item that need to be ordered.Contracts are written and deposits are placed all over this industry.Thats not "BS"
Once again,before you shoot from the hip and act how you not going to put down a deposit for more than $50 and get a stove,tell us all where this dealer is who take orders like that????That would not be a "smart business folk".

From here;
http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/news/local/5240413.html

"Dyer's store also racked up $5,800 in credit card processing fees for her store's sales last month alone. That is coupled with overtime she paid her staff to work the weekends her store was bustling with customers."

$5800 is the 2% on the CC fees that would equal more than $250,000 in one month(thats not at $50.00 a stove!)

so where are all these dealers Givoni who take orders for $50.00?????Name them!

The real story is everyone panicked and bought a pellet stove like it was the newest craze. Newsflash They have been making them for decades. Pellet stove. "Whats that?" "Ha the pellets look like rabbit food" Yup sure does but its not. I cant wait to see all the used pellet stoves on the market in the next couple years, from people that just have no idea how much work they are to keep them working. Soooo glad I burn wood!!

In regards to the "reasonable deposit"............ My stove shop asked for 50% of the total job up front. Included were the stove, hardware & labor. A week or 2 later the stove was in. The remaining ballance was due at completion. I had no problem with their terms.