Insurance survey

Ted69 said:

Morning All
I had a woodstove (Jotul 400) installed last November, called my insurance company and they said no problem but I will have to pay an extra $10.00 a month.
A few weeks ago the insurance company called an said they would like to send a person over to survey my house (wood stove)
I had the stove installed by a local company that has been in business for many years so I assume everything was to code.
Question: What are they coming for woodstove or whole house? Is there anything I should do before he arrives? I would had to have any problems or another increase to my policy.
thanks for any information.
ted

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Not being an insurance agent I can only surmise that they are mainly coming to check out the stove installation . . . but it would only make sense for them to also check out the rest of the property to see if there are any other potential problems for them and see if they need to make any changes to the policy (i.e. if the house is now valued more than what it is insured for, if there are other changes to the house that were made since the original policy was written, etc.)

The one thing I do know about insurance companies is that they all vary quite a bit in what they will cover and how they will cover the policy. For example, my insurance company gives me a pretty good rate on my cars . . . but they refuse to insure rebuilt salvage cars -- no ifs, ands or buts . . . whereas my father's insurance policy has no such issues. On the otherhand the same insurance company has no issues with me installing a woodstove or pellet stove and there is no increase in the premium providing the installation meets NFPA 211 requirements and is professionally installed (vs. having me do it) . . . as you have discovered other insurers may increase the premium.

I suspect we'll be seeing more and more insurance companies take a closer look at alternative heating appliances in the next year or so as more folks begin to heat with alternatives . . . and I also suspect we may see some insurance companies tack on premium increases and/or take more of an active interest in the installation of the heating appliance in their insured properties.

They're simply coming to check the installation. They want to make sure every aspect of it meets either the manufacturor's specs on clearences and such, or in lue of that the national code specs (stove to combustible surface distance, stove to edge of hearth pad, chimney clearences, etc).

They'll probably take some pictures as well. Incidentally my insurance didn't go up at all with State Farm when I installed my stove.

If everything meets specs, you shouldn't have a problem. Have your manual for you stove on hand....I'm sure they'll want to take a look at it.

When I told my insurance agent that I had installed a woodstove, I was sent an informational form to fill out and return. They wanted to know the details of the stove (model #, when made), the details of the install (clearances, hearthpad, chimney), and the details of the chimney cleaning (who cleans it and how often). They must have been satisfied with my answers, since they never asked to make a visit (and they didn't raise my rates!).

I switched my homeowners insurance policy in 2005. The new insurance company arranged to have an "inspector" inspect my home, and take photos. He told me that he loved my pellet stove, and that he thought in was installed properly. I'm being charged $60 additional annually for the pleasure of having the stove. I guess that's fair, but everything I've read suggest using a pellet stove is safer than traditional oil or gas fired boilers. In my mind I should be receiving a discount for using a pellet stove.

That reminds me, I'll need to call my agent about my new stove.

My insurance agent told me no problem with adding a stove venting into a SS liner in an existing chimney, that was 6 months ago. Yesterday I got a house survey to update the records and they asked questions about heating / cooling system, plumbing, roof, floors, how often chimneys swept, and then a wood stove. They asked detail questions on make, clearances, inspections and such. Seems that they are trying to find out who added a wood stove.

Be prepared for a severe beating ! They are coming to look for reasons to raise your rates to the moon. We get charged extra because we are more likely to be sued over a slip-n-fall on our wide pine floors than if we had carpeting ! Seriously!! Your insurance company coming to your house can never be good. No different than getting a knock at the door from a guy saying "I'm from the government, and i'm here to help".

Ductape said:

Be prepared for a severe beating ! They are coming to look for reasons to raise your rates to the moon. We get charged extra because we are more likely to be sued over a slip-n-fall on our wide pine floors than if we had carpeting ! Seriously!! Your insurance company coming to your house can never be good. No different than getting a knock at the door from a guy saying "I'm from the government, and i'm here to help".

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Guess it depends on your agent, and the relationship you have with them.

Guess it depends on your agent, and the relationship you have with them.[/quote]


Very true. Our agent came yesterday, did a couple measurements, looked at the stove brochure, took a picture and we gave her a copy of the inspector's report. She was gone in about 10 minutes. We are looking at about a $40 annual increase to the policy for the privilege to burn wood.

When we called the insurance company we told them about the stove they said our rate would only go up a little bit, also partially because we also now have an inground pool. All they want is the receipt from the installer.

Your insurance company coming to your house can never be good. How true
Nationwide is reviewing coverage for their customers that means rates are going up. I got a letter saying were coming out
I dropped them and found a better company lower rates. The new insurnse came out like my wood furnace and I saved 300 ayear.

I did tell my carrier that i had installed a woodstove, and she started asking all kinds of questions about whether it was professionally installed etc. I live in sh**box trailer worth $70,000 and my insurance rates are $800 without them knowing about the wood stove. I did persuade her that I was a professional registered engineer and had a semester coarse in N.F.P.A. rules etc, which i do. So this sweet girl said ..well i guess we don't have to tell the insurance co as most people don't report such things anyway. I did do the most professional job possible with my install. And i dare say it would measure up to any pro job on the market. I should tell you that i did spend some 60 hours doing research on the products i bought...so it still involved a lot of man hours. Mine. just lucky i guess....In future i'd never tell anyone anything and if something happened I'd just plead ignorance of the rules. Homeowners have a way of getting away with that option, but if you are a business they know you are insured and you get sued.

In my opinon the proper way to handle these details are:
1) Admit Nothing
2) Deny Everything
3) Make Counter Accusations

When I put in my stove, I pulled a permit and had it inspected. My insurance agent emailed me a form to fill out and fax back with information about the make/model of the stove, and some other questions about clearances, chimney type, fuel type, etc... They didn't send an inspector, I imagine, because I had pulled a permit, and already had it inspected and signed off by the county.

Since I already had a fireplace in another room, my premium didn't change.

-SF

If the locality allows for the install to be done by the homeowner with the permit, then the insurance company should not require it to be done by a professional, because it has been done to code and passed. The county where I live will inspect it the same if the homeowner or professional does it.

Of course, you also want to tell your insurance company about the stove so it'll be covered by your policy, separate from whether it increases the likelihood of hazard...

JPapiPE said:

I did tell my carrier that i had installed a woodstove, and she started asking all kinds of questions about whether it was professionally installed etc. I live in sh**box trailer worth $70,000 and my insurance rates are $800 without them knowing about the wood stove. I did persuade her that I was a professional registered engineer and had a semester coarse in N.F.P.A. rules etc, which i do. So this sweet girl said ..well i guess we don't have to tell the insurance co as most people don't report such things anyway. I did do the most professional job possible with my install. And i dare say it would measure up to any pro job on the market. I should tell you that i did spend some 60 hours doing research on the products i bought...so it still involved a lot of man hours. Mine. just lucky i guess....In future i'd never tell anyone anything and if something happened I'd just plead ignorance of the rules. Homeowners have a way of getting away with that option, but if you are a business they know you are insured and you get sued.

In my opinon the proper way to handle these details are:
1) Admit Nothing
2) Deny Everything
3) Make Counter Accusations

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You know you might have something here. When I informed one of our Fire Inspectors (who formerly worked in the Insurance Industry investigating fires) that I had contacted my insurance company to let them know I was getting a woodstove he replied that sometimes they're better off not knowing everything . . . said that in the US usually no one is penalized for doing anything stupid when it comes to insurance and that in fact sometimes the insurance company will use the opportunity to boost rates.

Sounds to me as though sometimes doing the right thing ends up biting one in the proverbial butt. Of course, I feel better doing what I did and I wouldn't want to attempt to save money on the short run and then have the insurance company attempt to deny a claim or reduce the amount if (heaven forbid) something did happen.

Incidentally, the Inspector does not condone deliberately misleading insurers and stated that if an insurance company wanted to send someone out to inspect the place, made calls or required paperwork to be sent in it is a case where you really need to be up-front or risk the consequences.

Damn , I do too Jake and i tried to explain , but it was the insurance agent that made the decision not to inform the insurance co of my plans. I did say that i did not cut any corners and i could pass a full inspection....but correct installation is not a reason for rates not going up. There isn't a fire inspector/marshall or building inspector or police officer around here for 100 miles. I did call the Fire Service at the beginning of my install and was told ...No codes, permits , or inspections in your town boy...As long as you follow the manufactures instructions you are good. And I said don't call me boy, son. I take offense to that address.

JPapiPE said:

Damn , I do too Jake and i tried to explain , but it was the insurance agent that made the decision not to inform the insurance co of my plans. I did say that i did not cut any corners and i could pass a full inspection....but correct installation is not a reason for rates not going up. There isn't a fire inspector/marshall or building inspector or police officer around here for 100 miles. I did call the Fire Service at the beginning of my install and was told ...No codes, permits , or inspections in your town boy...As long as you follow the manufactures instructions you are good. And I said don't call me boy, son. I take offense to that address.

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Honestly, I suspect that the vast majority of folks here that I've seen at this site want to and will do the right thing . . . and in fact probably go beyond the bare minimum requirements . . . it's the yahoos out there who have no clue of what they're doing . . . but think they do.

I suspect your town is much like mine in Unity. While all of Maine is subject to the state-adopted fire codes the truth of the matter is that unless you live in a city like Bangor, Portland or LA there is a pretty good chance that you will never see a Fire Inspector or have to get a permit . . . and the honest truth is that I suspect that even in towns where you may have a CEO or a Fire Chief doing some inspection work in some (if not many) cases where we live there is a good chance you may know more about what is legal and legit and what is not compared to that person (i.e. the other night I was trying to tell our small town CEO that I was pretty sure there are only one or two OWBs that can now be sold in Maine due to the Maine EPA restrictions . . . but the CEO was telling me that I was wrong and that the older OWBs could still be sold providing there was certain setbacks from neighbors . . . of course I have been known to be wrong.

Well our company(auto owners) wanted to raise ours up 230 bucks a Yr.. I am looking for a new insurer as I type.

Question: What are they coming for woodstove or whole house? Is there anything I should do before he arrives?

Well Ted, if you're like most of us, you should remove the jerry cans of gas from the hearth area, clear out the Marihuana plantation downstairs and make darned sure there's not a peep from the prisoners you've chained in the basement.

Then again, you can always choose to not purchase insurance. If you live in a modest house in a city with high property values, your lot will often be worth more than your lot with your house on it. In my town people routinely buy a small house, demolish it (oh sorry-"de-construct" it) and build a huge house or two on the lot.

So if your property can be sold for just as much after the house burns down, why buy fire insurance? Or maybe I'm missing something.

Ted69 said:

ok the guy came last night. Had all documents for my wood stove, didnt even look at them.
Looked at my wood stove for about 10 seconds took a picture then wanted to see the furnace,fuse panel, gas fireplace and asked the same questions as when I applied for house insurance eg: smokers, co detectors, if anyone lived in the basement. So I will hear back in 4 to 6 weeks...I bet my rate will go up.
thanks for all the replies to my original question.
Ted

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I wouldn't want to take that bet . . . I think you might be right.

I got this incredible guy from Met Life Auto and home that saved me so much money on my car insurance that i was able to add collision and 0% deductable on my comprehensive and i still saved over $100 on what Progressive was charging me...and with Progressive I had $100 deductible on comprehensive and could not afford collision insurance. He also offers incredible rates on homeowners too, provided you haven't had a bunch of claims... Those are the customers Met Life and Home look for .Pm me if you would like his name.. Unfortunately Met life like most other insurance companies won't insure mobile homes over 30 years old.

I actually got around to calling my insurance company yesterday about the insert that was installed last month.

All they asked if it was professionally installed and that's it. No $$ increase, no other questions.

I'm here in Canada tho and the provinces give you $$$ back for buying inserts and upgrading your old fireplace. They probably don't want to discourage people from doing it.