Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed - If my manual tells me I am not supposed to use kiln dried wood in my soapstone stove because the wood burns too fast, would using a Bio brick cause the same problems? I don't want to crack the stones in the stove, especially if I load it up and leave for the day. Also - does anyone know if Bio bricks can be used WITH firewood at the same time, or are you not supposed to mix them together?
Bio Bricks and Soapstone
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SteveT
Feeling the Heat
I have a plan relating to the use of BioBricks, but so far very little actual experience. My plan consists of using them as my primary heat this winter but with extreme caution. I would use kiln dried wood in the same way. By "extreme caution" I mean getting started with very small loads, monitoring the burn and if the temperature stays low going to a slightly bigger load next time. Gradually develop what is an appropriate limit.
It's possible to over fire with just about any wood. But smaller and drier pieces make it much more likely. BioBricks take it to another extreme. Consider the heat energy per volume. BioBricks come on a 4 by 4 by 3 pallet -- about 40% of the volume of a cord. But they contain just about the same Btu content as a cord of softwood AND they can be packed with almost no air gap. So you might get 3 times or more heat energy into your stove. If that takes off too quickly it could be disastrous.
I wouldn't hesitate to use them mixed with cordwood (many people do). But I would still be very careful and recognize that there is a lot of energy in a small package and build experience in the same cautious way.
It's possible to over fire with just about any wood. But smaller and drier pieces make it much more likely. BioBricks take it to another extreme. Consider the heat energy per volume. BioBricks come on a 4 by 4 by 3 pallet -- about 40% of the volume of a cord. But they contain just about the same Btu content as a cord of softwood AND they can be packed with almost no air gap. So you might get 3 times or more heat energy into your stove. If that takes off too quickly it could be disastrous.
I wouldn't hesitate to use them mixed with cordwood (many people do). But I would still be very careful and recognize that there is a lot of energy in a small package and build experience in the same cautious way.
Heat Miser
New Member
I ran presto logs in my soapstone stove for half a season last year. I would never burn more than three of them at once because it got way too hot. BioBricks I have no experience with though. They are made with the same compressed sawdust, but the theory is they should be packed in tightly to burn (tighter than the presto logs can be packed). Based on my experience of running compressed sawdust wood products, I'd be very cautious filling the firebox with them until I was well aware of how they were burning in my particular stove installation.
The important rule with these compressed logs or bricks is to read the instructions before burning. They don't all burn like firewood. BioBricks are meant to be burned as a solid mass composed of many blocks. The tighter they are packed in the stove the better. Read up on the BioBricks in their literature or their website for info on the proper way to burn them. When burned correctly, they will not create a high temp spike that one has to worry about.
http://www.biopellet.net/instructions.html
I ran a review of them last year in my F400. They worked quite well for providing heat over a long period of time.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/BioBricks/
http://www.biopellet.net/instructions.html
I ran a review of them last year in my F400. They worked quite well for providing heat over a long period of time.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/BioBricks/
SteveT
Feeling the Heat
BeGreen said:
There was a post (can't find it now) from someone who followed the instructions exactly and had a problem. Seems that the bricks were packed tight, burning one side only and somehow they started to smolder instead of burn. Then a relight of the unburned gas with a very loud noise and ash in the room. He spoke to the manufacturer (Tom Engel or "BioPellet" on this board) and came up with a slightly modified burn plan. I don't remember the details.
I called Tom and asked him if it would be OK to use the bricks in a loose stack like firewood (so that they burned on multiple sides) provided the number of bricks used was limited. He had no problem with that. In fact, if I recall properly he said that sometimes when he gets lazy he just tosses a few onto a going fire. To each their own but I think limiting the number burned at a time makes sense, at least until you get knowledgeable as to how they work in your stove.
BioPellet
New Member
BeGreen said:
Thanks to Be Green for his continued reality check and I say reality becuase he has actually taken the time to burn my product rather than worry about what might happen if you do - guys, come on, the reason why pine out of the forest sucks as a fuel is because it is low density and wet - so you have to stoke the bajeebers ourt of it to get heat - which means that you are not at combustion temps and you are generationg a lot of pyrolysis gases - read smoke - and therefore creosote. Now - let's move on to hardwood - it is about 2x denser and therefore releases its energy twice as slow - meaning less creosote. Now let's go on to the 21st centery and BioBricks(tm) - compressed with 150 ton of force we are able to prodcue a "wood" out of waste sawdust that has a density 1.4 x that of Hardwood
It does this with softwood sawdust or heardwood sawdust, they all are the same once densified
Now we have a fuel that is 8% or less moisture content throughout the firebox so that all the firebox is at combustion temp and completely buring the wood gases and what's more there is very little ash left after 12 hours later so all the energy was released rather than left in the ash pan as charcoal
I like compressed wood products. In an urban or suburban location where population density is high and wood cost a lot, they make great sense. But in the spirit of full disclosure, I burn pine too, but never wet. It makes a fine fall and spring heat source and for me, creosote has not been an issue.
Heat Miser
New Member
BioPellet said:
I burned compressed sawdust logs from several different major manufacturers in two stoves. One was a Defiant Catalytic and the other is a Hearthstone Mansfield non-Catalytic (current stove). I am now a fourth year 24/7 fall/winter/spring wood burner so although I'm not a seasoned vet, I'm no longer a novice.
Now, I have burned a couple tons of the things when I was low on wood or just wanted to try something new. These products are not BioBricks, but out in my area "Atlas" makes the brick version of the compressed sawdust wood and they look identical in composition to the compressed sawdust logs, except they are the size of bricks instead of 4-6" diameter X 12-16" "logs". I haven't burned the Atlas bricks (they were new last year), but will try some this winter just so I can put this story to rest one way or another.
My observations:
1) They burn either really hot or they smolder. The temperature control in my Defiant couldn't regulate the temperature of them correctly. The stove was either running near over fire condition when it was set on medium to high or the catalytic element was running orange hot for hours on end when set on low because of all the smoke the things created. You had two temperature controls: Surface of the sun hot or smolder. There was no in-between. Mind you this was with the thermostatic damper control of the Defiant. It clearly was not calibrated to burn the compressed sawdust products.
2) Same for my soapstone stove. My Hearthstone will run very hot with them or smolder. If I have the damper on anything other than the lowest setting the stove will approach over fire temperature quickly if I have more than three of the things in the fire box. If I set it on low then the fire is lazy and smolders creating a lot of smoke and a dirty burn.
3) Did I mention they burn incredibly hot? I put four of the logs in my Mansfield by mistake one night. The stove was hotter than the Space Shuttle rocket boosters. I really didn't think I could get it to cool off and was going to over fire. That was on the low setting. I had to stay up to watch the stove through the burn cycle to make sure it wasn't going to get into a bad condition. I'd hate to think what would have happened if I loaded the firebox up with the things.
4) The unburned gasses suddenly combust and cause mini-explosions in my stoves. Because the logs burn so hot you are forced to choke down the air. During the end of the burn cycle the logs create a lot of smoke and this smoke ignites suddenly. In my Defiant it blew smoke out of all the door gaskets into the room with a sudden whoosh. This is normally corrected by adding a little more air to the burn, but again the Defiant thermostatic damper never did this with cord wood. The Mansfield does the explosions as well, but not as spectacularly. However the Mansfield does not have an automatic damper and you're forced to either run the stove on the lowest setting, or give it more air and risk over firing the stove if you have too many logs in it.
5) They leave a bad coal bed to restart the fire. Yes, they burn with little ash, but they also burn with little coals. It's a major pain to restart the fire because you don't have a nice bed of coals to re-light quickly. Cord wood leaves nice coals and is fast to re-start. I like having a bed of coals in the stove. It makes adding new fuel much easier and requires far less babysitting between cycles. The charcoal is not wasted by sitting in the stove, it is eventually burned.
6) They don't save you any money. Yes, they claim they have more BTUs than a cord of wood for the price. But I burned them faster than cord wood because of how they burned. I'd rather have a cord of wood than 1.5 cord BTU in these products any day.
As for BioBricks and how they burn. I don't know specifically because they don't sell them out in my region. But, they do have the Atlas bricks out here and I'll give them a test run this season. I can't see any particular reason why they'd be any different than other compressed wood products though.
My experience is properly seasoned cord wood burns better and safer in wood stoves than these products. Yes, the compressed wood products may be more convenient, but they require more babysitting and figuring out how they will burn in your particular stove. However, there is also the idea that these stoves are designed to be burned with cordwood of a certain moisture content. I'm not a combustion engineer, but it seems that stuffing them full of extra dry and dense fuel it was not intended to burn could lead to unintended, and possibly dangerous, results.
In the end, I stand by my statements above. Burn these products if you want, but I'd watch them very closely to know how they burned in your particular stove. As for me, I prefer properly seasoned cord wood.
BioPellet
New Member
Heat Miser said:
Make sure the Atlas briquettes are a high density (~1000 kg/m3) . Stacking them tight together and against a back corner to minimize surface area will extend burntimes and temper the heat. See my iunstructions www.biopellet.net Sure, start slow with 10 bricks or less. Make sure you have a bit of flame in the firebox during initial volitile release so that you are burni the gases. You should not see any smoke once your get going.
If you are mixing with cordwood put the cordwood OVER the bricks to reduce surface area, volitile release and hense puffing
As noted in my reviews of these products there are different burning procedures depending on the product. ALWAYS follow the manufacturer's directions. Yes, there are an amazing amount of BTUs in these products. Burnt as recommended they are a safe and clean alternative. Tossing several logs on a hot stove is neither recommended, nor safe. Shutting down a stove and smothering combustion can and often will lead to back puffing in this situation, even with cord wood.
Heat Miser
New Member
BeGreen said:
Of course. The problem, in my installation at least, is you either run them damped down to keep them burning at a controllable temp, or you run them with more air and risk over firing!
Now I could burn one log at a time. But then I'm reloading every three hours and the heat output is all over the place. Once two or more logs are in the stove then you're stuck again with the all the way hot or all the way damped settings. There is no middle ground on the stove settings.
Two logs will not react like 4 logs. There are a lot less btus there. There is a big difference from putting 4 logs on hot coals and putting 2 logs. on the same. I tried both and there is definitely a middle ground.
BioPellet
New Member
EngineRep said:
Actually, BioBrick's(tm) high density and retangular shape mean that you can limit heat conduction into the fuel as well as access to air - thus packing densely is an advantage for long burntimes.
Remember also that draft is increased by high wind and very cold weather. It's good to keep this in mind when heating in the dead of winter..
compressedwoodsupplier
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