I have a just had a new Jotul Castine (F400) professionally installed. The is adequate clearance in all directions per the manual with no heat shields. Yesterday I burned the three break-in fires, and tonight I burned the stove for most of the evening to heat the house. I noticed that the wall that is closest to the stove - 14" - is hot to the touch. Should I be concerned, should I get heat shields? Thanks.
Wall to the side of the stove is hot to the touch - a problem?
- Thread starter rgsccr
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colebrookman
Minister of Fire
When in comes to wood stoves I would always go the extra mile on safety. You said 'Hot' not warm which is, to me, a little worry some. There will be a surge in house fires this year thanks to new stove installations and new wood burners. For the few extra $$ spent you will gain much in safety, especially when your not home to take care of the fire. Fire safety is number one, always. Just one volunteer f/fs thoughts.
Ed
Ed
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
Hot to the touch is hard to gauge - in warm weather (now), a stove will always seem hotter and so will the adjacent surfaces. If I were you, I'd get a thermometer (must go up to at least 120-130) and put it against the wall. Don't worry about anything burning down....here are the codes and rules of thumb:
1. something at 120 degrees feels very hot to the touch
2. the testing allows for combustible surfaces to be 160 degrees or so
3. wood does not ignite until about 400+ degrees, although some say that years of exposure to 250 degrees can ignite wood. But that has never been proven....anywhere.
As you can see, no need to worry - but you should make certain of the temps.
1. something at 120 degrees feels very hot to the touch
2. the testing allows for combustible surfaces to be 160 degrees or so
3. wood does not ignite until about 400+ degrees, although some say that years of exposure to 250 degrees can ignite wood. But that has never been proven....anywhere.
As you can see, no need to worry - but you should make certain of the temps.
rgsccr, is this a flat wall or a corner installation? Does the stove have single or double wall connector pipe?
That's the same as our corner install with the F400. Our stove was closer to the side walls, about 12" if I remember, but we had the rear heatshield. The hottest wall temp I measured was 137 deg.. This was with a rear exit flue connection going into a 90, then up. The wall felt quite hot, but I could hold my hand on it for a second or two. This was well within safety limits.
OTOH, it won't hurt to add the rear heatshield if you want a extra margin of safety. The stove will still heat very well.
OTOH, it won't hurt to add the rear heatshield if you want a extra margin of safety. The stove will still heat very well.
Henz
New Member
SlyFerret
Minister of Fire
My walls feel hot to the touch as well when the stove has been burning for long periods of time.
I do worry about shortening the life of the latex paint on the wall, but i'm not worried about burning anything down.
According to my laser thermometer, even when I had my stove up 600 degrees and have been burning all day, my wall was only ~130 degrees. Feels hot to my skin, but nowhere close to combustion.
In the summer, outdoor surfaces in the sun can get that hot as well.
-SF
I do worry about shortening the life of the latex paint on the wall, but i'm not worried about burning anything down.
According to my laser thermometer, even when I had my stove up 600 degrees and have been burning all day, my wall was only ~130 degrees. Feels hot to my skin, but nowhere close to combustion.
In the summer, outdoor surfaces in the sun can get that hot as well.
-SF
I'll add to Craig's list of thumbrules the folklore I've heard...if you can hold your hand on it without screaming or running for the butter from the fridge, then it's ok. The stove is radiating a lot of heat energy, and your wall is absorbing it. A heat shield would, I think, serve you well, in that your wall temp will stay lower, and you'll benefit from the establishment of a natural convective flow of air between the stove & shield, thus retaining more of the stove's heat in the room air instead of just using it to make your wall hot. Rick
aussieblake
Member
We're talking (I think) about the factory-built heat shields made specifically to mount to the body of the stove, with an airspace between. The only ones I've ever seen have the same finish as the stove. Wall-mounted heat shields (which it sounds like you may be talking about) are an entirely different subject. If I've misinterpreted your question, my apologies. Rick
aussieblake
Member
fossil I have jumped off topic. I am basically looking for a free standing heat shield to locater between the wall and the stove. I have more than the required clearance just seeing what my options are if needed.
aussieblake
aussieblake
aussieblake said:
Gotcha. So long as your required clearances to combustibles are already met in the installation, you can place any non-combustible material you want between the stove and the surroundings. Such things may be commercially available, I dunno...or you could think up your own. Just make sure you think non-combustible. Rick
myzamboni
Minister of Fire
aussieblake said:
I had a stainless steel one made at a sheetmetal ship, but you might not like the look
I thought my wall was too hot the first year we had the stove so I called hearthstone and was told their spec. was 117 deg. above ambient room temperature, which was 192 deg. with a 75 deg. room temp. We ran the stove the first year like that and then moved it 3 more inches away and that made a big difference. For a heat shield idea look at tin ceiling tiles, there are many different patterns and sizes available.
RedRanger
New Member
The too hot to touch thing is not really a valid call. Like the web said, splurge and buy a thern. and lets not panic over nothing
Look guys, the answer is right in your manuals, every one of them. The manufacturer has a huge responsibility to be sure that they are selling you an all but foolproof product so they test the stoves, and estimate the worst conditions possible. UL is basically like the consumers advocate, they won't put their approval on a product unless its safe. If your manual says that its safe at X" 's then its safe. We really can TRUST the manufacturer, they put as much money into making sure its safe as they do making sure it works well. Any additional sheilding is just extra work, REALLY
loneeagle15
New Member
we felt our walls were also to hot and but a rock wall behind our stove home depot sell fake rock but check a brick company or masonry company in your area every one said the temp at the wall was ok but I sleep better at nite with the rock up also it holds heat and then releases it back into the room
aussieblake
Member
coreystaf said:
UL is a good thing don't get me wrong, but don't be fooled UL is a BUSINESS. It costs money to get products UL Listed (lots of money), it costs money to get almost anything from UL. They publish quite a few papers/documents that are referenced in the NFPA codes, and guess what they are very expensive to obtain.
aussieblake
Put yourself in the manufacturers shoes, especially in todays litigious world. If you were selling a product that is very able to burn someones house down, your'e going to test it, test it some more, until you know where it will be safe, and then add some to it for the mis-use factor, because someone will inevitably mistreat the stove, and want to blame the manufacturer for their problems. Even though the companies are in it to make money, they can't make money when houses are burning down.
coreystaf said:
True enough, Corey...we had a saying in the Navy: "If wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum!" :coolsmile: . That being said, once the minimum requirements are met for a safe installation, it's your stove in your house. If it makes you more comfortable to go beyond the minimum requirements, whether it be for aesthetics or peace of mind, then you're free to do it...so long as whatever it is you do doesn't involve violating that minimum required clearance from combustibles. Rick
colebrookman
Minister of Fire
fossil said:
Exactly Rick. It may be a belt and suspenders issue but if it gives you additional peace of mind and as you said, does not violate the safety of the stove, I say go for it. We're not talking big bucks and it's a plus just for a woodburner to be thinking fire safety.
Ed
Webmaster said:
Maybe not Craig. There may be a need to worry. Commercial insurance companies underwrite buildings based on their own technical findings for flammability, construction techniques, materials, sprinkler systems, fire origins, even smoking on site. Local example is FM Global in Norwood, MA that built a fire and explosion testing ( think of dust in plants and silos) in New Gloucester, RI. Jay Shelton also did some testing on wood stove clearance at UMass, Amherst awhile ago.
Repeating severe heating can lower the ignition temperature of flammables to ignite well below the original ignition temps. Fire Marshals have data about such fires.
The old test " can you hold your hand on the surface" rule works most of time. But why take a chance when the surface temp of a stove can go well above its max rating lowering the rated clearance to combustibles.
The min clearances in the manuals ( UL or not) can be cut with inexpensive shields that allow an air space below by ceramic spacers attached to the flammable wall. I've used cement board ,slate, granite, scrap steel for shields. The air space below is critical, as is the ceramic spacers. For afinished look, paint the shields black. Most good manuals also list safe clearances with shields.
One opinion....don't mean to contradict the boss. :wow:
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