Smartlog?

My cordwood is too green for me to get decent performance from my stove so I bought a couple packs of biobricks. I thought they burned fairly well....a little hot tho. Satisfied with the compressed sawdust concept, I got a load of Envi blocks in last week and have been burning a combination of pallet wood and the blocks (I will mix in some drier cordwood at some point).

Personally I love the envi blocks for all night burns. In my stove I can keep 375-400 degrees for at least 7 hours with a load of 3 blocks. With last nights cold (-5F) I put in 4 blocks at 10PM, got the stove to 400F. This morning at 6:30 I had 350F with enough coals to light off 2 more blocks....longest burn I have ever gotten with my stove!

When I first started using them I was real concerned about them running too hot, but my fears were unfounded. In fact I dont think the envi blocks are very well suited for getting super hot...warm up the cold house kind of fires going (biobricks were able to do this for me). For me pallet wood followed by the addition of 2-4 blocks gives me a hot fire followed by a cooler but longer burning sort of fire.

BioPellet said:

chaynes68 said:

My cordwood is too green for me to get decent performance from my stove so I bought a couple packs of biobricks. I thought they burned fairly well....a little hot tho. Satisfied with the compressed sawdust concept, I got a load of Envi blocks in last week and have been burning a combination of pallet wood and the blocks (I will mix in some drier cordwood at some point).

Personally I love the envi blocks for all night burns. In my stove I can keep 375-400 degrees for at least 7 hours with a load of 3 blocks. With last nights cold (-5F) I put in 4 blocks at 10PM, got the stove to 400F. This morning at 6:30 I had 350F with enough coals to light off 2 more blocks....longest burn I have ever gotten with my stove!

When I first started using them I was real concerned about them running too hot, but my fears were unfounded. In fact I dont think the envi blocks are very well suited for getting super hot...warm up the cold house kind of fires going (biobricks were able to do this for me). For me pallet wood followed by the addition of 2-4 blocks gives me a hot fire followed by a cooler but longer burning sort of fire.

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Guys, I am slow right now with the holidays and the turndown in the housing market. Things usually pick back up mid to end of January. I am working frantically to increase production. Please try to buy lots next spring/summer when priices are low and quantities are high.....

BioPellet,
How much are they off-season?

Also, I had heard that the unavailability of BioBricks was due to a shortage of saw dust.
~Cath

We would like to Thank everyone who is interested in SmartLog and alternative energy products in general. We are the U.S. representatives for SmartLog and can only speak to the facts of our product. Our logs have been extensively third party tested in Canada and our logs deliver 7,800 BTU's/lb vs. 5266 BTU's/lb of tested sugar maple with 20-30% moisture. Our logs are Octagon shaped and do not roll. SmartLog is 3"X3"X10" and weights 3.3 pounds per log with a 6-8% moisture content. SmartLog lights easily and produces far less creosote and harmful emissions than ordinary fire wood and is EPA certified. We offer 6 and 12 piece boxes. 30 Boxes (360 Logs) is equivalent to 1 US Cord based on BTU's generated. SmartLog is easy to store and handle. Our logs can be neatly stored in a garage or near a stove for convenient and clean use, no stacking, bugs or mess. SmartLog is far better for your stove containing no dirt, bark or foreign debris to burn while producing very little ash. We can not tell anybody that SmartLog is cheaper than cord wood. If you like wasting your time cutting, stacking, hauling and cleaning up after cord wood SmartLog may not be for you. If you want a clean convenient environmentally friendly alternative to cord wood then give us a try. Our logs burn far hotter than ordinary fire wood with less mess and harmful emission. Based on the BTU's our log produces per pound and the ease of use SmartLog is a great value and certainly competitively priced with ordinary cord wood. We have a growing dealer network that includes Stove and Energy shops as well as mass merchants. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have or help you locate a dealer near you. Atlantic Forest Products 978-610-7000 Jack Butler

Cath said:

Dan,
We picked up about 20 loose "Envi-Blocks" and we burned one in my Dad's fireplace. That's not much of a test but it did hold it's shape for quite some time compared to the cordwood it was sitting on top of.

All indicators seem to be that they will burn as well as the BioBricks but we haven't had a chance to try them in our insert yet.

I just spoke with Building 19. The Smart Logs are 3 Lbs each so a 6 pack would weigh 18 Lbs and a 12 pack would weigh 36 Lbs. The packages are $7.99 and $14.00 respectively.

Eastern Ice doesn't have them in yet but when they do they will be $9.00 for a 12 pack. So don't get them at Building 19 unless you want the bottle of bubbly you get if you find a better price elsewhere.

~Cath

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Why would anyone pay nearly twice as much per lb for Smartlogs compared with BioBricks(tm)?

SmartLog said:

We would like to Thank everyone who is interested in SmartLog and alternative energy products in general. We are the U.S. representatives for SmartLog and can only speak to the facts of our product. Our logs have been extensively third party tested in Canada and our logs deliver 7,800 BTU's/lb vs. 5266 BTU's/lb of tested sugar maple with 20-30% moisture. Our logs are Octagon shaped and do not roll. SmartLog is 3"X3"X10" and weights 3.3 pounds per log with a 6-8% moisture content. SmartLog lights easily and produces far less creosote and harmful emissions than ordinary fire wood and is EPA certified. We offer 6 and 12 piece boxes. 30 Boxes (360 Logs) is equivalent to 1 US Cord based on BTU's generated. SmartLog is easy to store and handle. Our logs can be neatly stored in a garage or near a stove for convenient and clean use, no stacking, bugs or mess. SmartLog is far better for your stove containing no dirt, bark or foreign debris to burn while producing very little ash. We can not tell anybody that SmartLog is cheaper than cord wood. If you like wasting your time cutting, stacking, hauling and cleaning up after cord wood SmartLog may not be for you. If you want a clean convenient environmentally friendly alternative to cord wood then give us a try. Our logs burn far hotter than ordinary fire wood with less mess and harmful emission. Based on the BTU's our log produces per pound and the ease of use SmartLog is a great value and certainly competitively priced with ordinary cord wood. We have a growing dealer network that includes Stove and Energy shops as well as mass merchants. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have or help you locate a dealer near you. Atlantic Forest Products 978-610-7000 Jack Butler

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Let's look at some of the numbers presented above. 360 logs @ 3.3 lb/log is 0.6 US ton. 7900 btu/lb (this is a good number for densified fuel) times 0.6 ton is 9.2 kbtu. A cord of New England cordwood is 3400 lb on average (21% moisture). @ 5266 btu/lb that's 17.9 kbtu - 1.9 times more btu from a cord of hardwood - it is not equivalent.

These Smartlogs are way overpriced for the customer wanting a real renewable clean alternative to fuel oil for home heating. I just bought a box of them, about 40 lbs worth and paid $10. That's $500 per ton!. The Canadians that make these, and the US "distributers" are making lots of money on your backs. I keep my BioBricks(tm) as cheap as I can so you have a real cost effective alternative. My pallet of BioBricks weighs at least 1900 lb (not including pallet) and sells for as low as $220 per pallet ($231 per ton).

BeGreen said:

Availability? (ducking :coolgrin: )

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So if I double my price will you still buy from me once they are available? I say don't buy a product produced by people who do not care about you and instead just base thier pricing on supply and demand .... Boycot those sorts until they a forced to sell it to you at a resonable cost...

BeGreen said:

Availability? (ducking :coolgrin: )

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The logs are very available across Canada Rona Depot, and the NorthEastern U.S.. Mass, VT, NH. CT, NY, NJ, RI. We also have them in NC, VA, MD and PA in limited locations. It is hard to ship firewood or fuel too far from the source. Washington State is about as far as we can get from the mill. You end up burning freight dollars. Our logs are not unlike Presto logs or Northern Idaho. If you want to discuss this further please feel free to call. 800-808-6433.

BioPellet said:

BeGreen said:

Availability? (ducking :coolgrin: )

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So if I double my price will you still buy from me once they are available? ...

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BioPellet,
Some people would. Others wouldn't. A lot would depend upon whether they felt like they were being gouged or not, and whether or not alternatives such as seasoned cordwood are available.

In fairness to "SmartLog" the cost of shipping a longer distance (from Canada) will necessarily drive up his cost. It's entirely possible that they are charging substantially more than they need to in order to offset the additional cost. And as long as there is a void in the market they'll be able to get away with it, if in fact that's what they are doing.

If so, they should be forewarned that savvy consumers have long memories. They could be losing an opportunity to gain brand loyalty with people that will have other options in the future.

FWIW, if you were to look back on my posts about BioBricks in general and one of your distributors South Shore Wood Pellets in particular I have made a point of emphasizing that my sense is that the overriding philosophy seems to be to make a reasonable profit on volume rather than through gouging.

For me it will probably remain a supplemental product but I am looking forward to being able to say that BioBricks represents value for the money for a long time to come. I don't expect it to be the cheapest but I am cautiously optimistic that it will be among the very best in quality and competitive on price for a long time to come.

For anyone else reading this I don't have anything to gain from promoting this product except perhaps to help it gain a toe-hold in my region so it will be available to me in the coming years. I should also note that I'm not generally "brand loyal". Performance and price are equally important to me with most products and I will shop around on those qualities. That is problematic with niche products like this but I am reasonably confident --based upon what I've read from others on these pages-- that BioBricks may be the best compressed log (at least in my region), followed by Envi-Blocks (which gets its technology from BioBricks, so that still speaks well of them) and then by "SmartLogs".

Just my opinion.
~Cath

But the good thing is smart log has product to sell unlike bio brick which runs out in the middle of the heating season

Iam on the lower Cape and have had a Lopi wood stove for years, Now I cannot find any wood for it, and someone suggested using a smart-log-type product. However, the company that installed my stove advised against it saying they burn too hot for the stove. Being new to all this, has anyone here with a wood stove used this product, and which one is better than another?

Thanks for the info....I may try the Bio Bricks.

I bought a "pack" of BioBrick from Aubochon Hardware and it cost over $8.00. I also bought the Smart Logs pack. Maybe I will have to dig out the receipt if I still have it and take another look at it, but I thought they were about the same price. The Smart Log did burn faster, but on the other hand, the biobrick was stubborn in burning compared to smouldering. I am going to give both another try tomorrow.

Kennebec

I just bought a "pack" of Bio Bricks from the place in Holbrook MA (So Shore Wood Pellets), and it was 6 bucks. I thought that reasonable. I've heard from several that BioBricks work better than the SmartLogs.

I like these-
http://www.dirtworks.net/Buy-Firewood.html

I buy some every year for use in January, when the temps fall to negative 20 or more
They burn really hot!

Vermontster said:

I like these-
http://www.dirtworks.net/Buy-Firewood.html

I buy some every year for use in January, when the temps fall to negative 20 or more
They burn really hot!

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And what a deal!

Kennebec said:

I bought a "pack" of BioBrick from Aubochon Hardware and it cost over $8.00. I also bought the Smart Logs pack. Maybe I will have to dig out the receipt if I still have it and take another look at it, but I thought they were about the same price. The Smart Log did burn faster, but on the other hand, the biobrick was stubborn in burning compared to smouldering. I am going to give both another try tomorrow.

Kennebec

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I am the manufacturer of BioBricks(tm) and I do not currently and have not yet sold to Abuchon - be aware of knockoffs

BioPellet said:

Kennebec said:

I bought a "pack" of BioBrick from Aubochon Hardware and it cost over $8.00. I also bought the Smart Logs pack. Maybe I will have to dig out the receipt if I still have it and take another look at it, but I thought they were about the same price. The Smart Log did burn faster, but on the other hand, the biobrick was stubborn in burning compared to smouldering. I am going to give both another try tomorrow.

Kennebec

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I am the manufacturer of BioBricks(tm) and I do not currently and have not yet sold to Abuchon - be aware of knockoffs

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It is possible, though choice of feedstock, moisture content, production process parameters, etc to make a less expensive to make - and inferior product

Creek-Chub said:

Vermontster said:

I like these-
http://www.dirtworks.net/Buy-Firewood.html

I buy some every year for use in January, when the temps fall to negative 20 or more
They burn really hot!

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And what a deal!

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I don't know if they are a good deal or not.
I feel like it is a luxury item for me, but it's pretty fair little reward for all the manual labor for the cords and cords I cut and split, and it's like having turbo for my stove.
So, why not have some for the mix, or to extend the splits when the winter is longer than the wood pile.

Cath said:

Dan,
Compressed logs are generally sold by the pallet. The measurements for BioBrick are 4x4x3 (48 sf), compared to a cord of wood which is 4x4x8 (128 sf). A pallet of BioBricks is often referred to as a ton but they are actually 100 lbs shy of a ton (50 packages @ 38 Lbs = 1,900 Lbs).

The weight of cord wood depends on the species but according to the resource below a cord of wood weighs about 2,400 Lbs on average. Of course that varies wildly depending on the species and how dry it is.

Glossary of Bioenergy Terms
http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/faqs/glossary.html#C Cord: A stack of wood consisting of 128 cubic feet (3.62 cubic meters). A cord has standard dimensions of 4 x 4 x 8 feet, including air space and bark. One cord contains about 1.2 U.S. tons (oven-dry), i.e. 2400 pounds or 1089 kg.

How often does Building 19 carry the Smart Logs? Are they significantly cheaper there?

South Shore Wood Pellets is now carrying Envi-Blocks at $255.00 per pallet.
~Cath

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It's now $299/pallet.