I'm worried about the new guys!

I'm a newbie here too, just had my Regency 2400 for about two weeks now, I must say it has been great, the one thing that has shocked me is how difficult it can be to get the heat distributed through the house. We have the blower and that works pretty good but the heat doesn't seem to climb up the open stair well as much as I thought it would. Maybe a second fan is in order. Just filled my pickup with timber that had been cut down 2 years ago, 10 bucks! Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all the great information everyone it has been an enormous help.

Dave

trailblaze said:

i find myself at a 550-600 degree stove top during most burns, unless it's the one log burn....

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This sounds like where you should be. Don't forget to char the new load of wood for 15-30 minutes. If your wood is super dry be careful as 15 minutes may be too long and your fire will just take off. I suspect your dry fuel is the root of your problem. You just need to adjust your technique. Try 1/2 to 3/4 damper setting for getting up to temp.

I just read thru this and it should be printed on the wall next to all of our stoves:

http://www.woodheat.org/tips/technique.htm

i agree.... the wood is not good.. well , it's good, but not ideal!

i don't like seeing my thermometer hitting 750's seriously though, unless i stand there for the entire time... that temp just shoots right up! it's like that saying.... water doesn't boil if your watching it... or something along that line??

never mind me...its been a long day

Your supposed to stick pretty close by your stove anytime your bypass damper and your main air supply damper are wide open. If were me, I be closing the bypass when the temp hits 600 and see if the everburn lights. Then shortly after start closing the main in steps.

Great Post! I love the article (thanks for the link firewalker) on the different types of fires and purposes. Now I understand my mistakes.

2 week old burner, with only 1 2nd degree burn so far! (I'll never be lazy for the glove again

Karen

We burned when i was little but that was about 25years ago. I burn in my garage but that is about once a month and just for the day. this will be my first season burning for primar house heat. I have experiance but i still consider myself a newbie. My 13nc will be installed in my single wide this week ( whewwww about time for those that remember i started back in spring) and i have a lot too learn. Im gonna jump out and say a little common sense goes a long way in burning or maybe not. May be a sticky of average temps for particular stoves would be a good idea decided amongest you veterans. For those with a 13nc whats some temps on your burns?

PS scored a free load of yellow locust an probably more than i will burn in five years for free!

DiBar said:

OK, another silly question. We have an air intake handle at the bottom of the stove. we have the hang of that. Now there is also a handle on the stove pipe about 4 inches from the top of the stove. The stove installers said just leave that open at all times. Is this a damper? Were they right - do we just leave that alone? It is going to be colder over the next few days so we will get to load up a bit more and try for an over night burn.

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Yes it is damper, and no do not leave it open all the way, all the time. I added a damper to my Englander 13NC and was asked "why do you have that, you don't need it? Well I think it is a neccessary part of any wood stove. I can increase my burn time from 8 to 10 hours by closing both the stove damper and the chimney damper completely when I have a hot fire roaring with a good bed of hot coals. Plus if you ever have a chimney fire, close the pipe damper first. It's not that I don't listen to people's advice. I do, but I did have a situation a couple of weeks ago when I did a real hot burn with dry wood and when i closed the stove damper the temp would not come down, so there I first used my pipe damper... Does it give me more creosote? Maybe, but I am on my roof once a week to inspect my chimney and i do burn hot twice a day for 15-20 minutes to clear all that stuff from my pipes. This burning hot thing can only be had with a proper stove thermometer...if one places a thermometer that is meant to go 18" up the stove pipe and puts it on the surface of the stove ....You can help but get a hot reading ....but the reading you get and the actual temperature can be 200 degress difference....Get the right thermometer for your stove and then burn about 100 degrees hotter twice a day to keep your chimney clean. It has worked fo me for 10 years and i have never had a chimney fire.....Take it for what it is worth

One big safety issue that I haven't seen mention is Ash handling.
This leads to more fires than chimney problems. Stove ashes can really hold heat. You want to put them in a non combustible container ie metal. That is not resting on a combustible surface. Do not vacuum up ashes unless the fire has been out quite a while.
Disposal can be an issue. I store ashes in metal trash can until it fills up and then I dump them in my garden. I get about 4 cans a winter. Some towns has issues with disposal. Talk to your dump guy or trash hauler about them before you throw them out. Quite often a story will pop up about a trash truck on fire due to stove ashes getting compressed into the rest of the trash while they are still hot.

Backwoods Savage said:

trailblaze said:

i leave the air on full for about 15-30 mins or until the couple logs inside are burning up.... stove top temps are in the 600 range before i turn the air down to almost closed and throw more wood on...

the stove top temp went 650ish, the stove pipe was 450-500 ish and thats when i loaded it full and closed the dampener....

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Please forgive me but I forgot to comment on the above statements about loading the stove and closing the damper.

You say you turned the air down to almost closed and throw more wood on, and then you say you loaded it full and closed the damper.

Doing this could cause a problem indeed. When you put wood in, char the wood before closing the damper or draft. With the wood you describe, that probably won't take more than 10 minutes, especially when you already have the stove hot.

Also, I would never add wood when the stove is already at 650 degrees!

What happens when you put wood in is that the fire first evaporates any moisture left in the wood. That is the part that will cause the creosote. You want to get rid of that initial smoke before shutting off the draft.


Trailblaze, just to give you one example I'll tell you a little of what we do. For example, let's say it is winter when we need the most heat from that stove. When the stove temperature gets down to perhaps 300-350 degrees or perhaps 400 degrees if it is below zero outdoors, we will then open the draft for a minute or two. Then we put wood in the firebox and leave the draft open...but only until we have good flame. At that time we close the draft about 1/2 way and wait 10-15 minutes (usually 10 with our wood) and then set the draft very, very low. We then are all set until the wood is about 3/4 completely burned when we open the draft a little to create more heat. When that wood is burned and we have nothing but coals we still have to wait some time for the stove to cool a little. Then we start the cycle all over again.

This time of the year we never put in more than 3 small splits at a time and we can usually let the fire go right out before we need more heat.

Again, last evening I put in some small splits around 8:00 pm. The next wood was added at about 7:30 am. and that was 3 more small splits. At present, our stovetop temperature is 250 degrees and we are plenty warm.

Good luck and I sincerely hope this helps.

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When your telling folks how you never run the stove hot till winter. Be sure you are telling then that you can do this because you have a Cat. stove. In a non-cat. stove this type of burning can and will cause a lot of creosote buildup. It is the exact opposite of the way a non-cat is to be used.

With your post as it stands a lot of folks will try to do as you do and fail miserably. So when giving advise to newby's make sure you tell them about that.

Backwoods Savage said:

Dill, that is an excellent point.

The ashes are too good to throw out anyway! . . .Or save some and use in place of salt. . .

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Nothing flavors my eggs in the morning like some ash and pepper sprinkled on top.

All kidding aside, my Dad often spread the ashes in his driveway when it became slick with ice.

Thanks for the info, Dennis. The Heritage manual is quite vague, in my opinion. Seems they expect you to already know how to operate a conventional stove. Back to that first baby analogy... it seems so simple and straightforward - until you are on your own with it Your info has filled in a lot of blank spaces.

Also the link to woodheat.org was extremely helpful, but it raised a few questions for me. The last part of the article lists what to expect with good combustion. I have a few questions:
-When wood burns it should be flaming until only charcoal remains. If there are no flames, something is wrong
OKAY WITH THIS FOR THE MOST PART
-If there are firebricks in the firebox, they should be tan in color, never black. MY FIREBRICKS ARE BLACK
-Steel or cast iron parts in the firebox should be light to dark brown, never black and shiny.
MY PARTS ARE BLACK AND SHINY
-With seasoned wood, correct air settings and proper loading arrangement you should expect instant ignition of a new load of wood — the bottom pieces should be flaming by the time the door is closed.
-If the appliance has a glass door with air wash, it should be clear.
I PAINSTAKINGLY CLEANED THE WINDOW YESTERDAY, AND ITS DARK ALREADY
-If the appliance has a glass door without air wash, it will be hazy, but should never be totally black. N/A
-The exhaust coming from the top of the chimney should be clear or white. A plume of blue or gray smoke indicates smoldering, poor combustion, air pollution and probably low system operating temperatures.
DOING OKAY WITH THIS

Have not been able to get it above 300 last night or today. Is it the temp / rain? We're adding two logs at a time. Okay... so my husband cut and stacked many small fallen trees from our woods. 2" - 4" and we have used those. Should they be split? I bet they are not dry enough, so that adds to the problem, right? When the season gets going, can we add one or two in with a large load of splits? They do eventually char through. We do have very seasoned wood at the bottom of two woodpiles. Looks like we will be spending quality time together outdoors soon~

(Is there a limit to how many questions we can ask in one post???)

Sounds like the inside of your stove is coated with creosote. You can bet your chimney is, too. We had this problem yesterday - so far, my wife has shown little to no interest in the stove. Yesterday, she decided she wanted to put some wood on the fire while I was at work. She did it like her dad always did in his smoke demon, and by the time I got home, the inside of the firebox, including the glass, was coated black. So, I stirred up the coals and threw on 5 medium-small splits of seasoned wood, opened the air all the way and closed the door. She could not believe that the wood caught almost immediately. I let the stove go for a bit to let all the wood get burning good, and throttled her back a bit. The flames get lazy for a minute or two, then pick up again. Throttle it back a bit more. Same thing - lazy flames get more involved. If the flames go down too much or go out, open the air again, and repeat. Once the firebox has heated up, the flames will not go away, even with the air all the way closed. Had her humming after a while, and the inside of the firebox was tan and most of the window was clean again by bedtime.

The wife and I have a date to watch Vanessa and John together this evening. i also gave her the link in this thread.


And lest anyone be worried, it's the heating season here in NH. I'm not burning full blast 24/7, just experimenting. And I have plenty of firewood, and can get more in a pinch if I need it (although I'd prefer to not have a load of firewood dropped on 3 feet of snow!).

:coolsmile:

Wow! Thanks! So it is creosote. I was hoping it couldn't form in just 3 days... Wishful thinking. How hot should I try to get it to? Am I correct that the surface of my soapstone should not exceed 500-550? And last question... or maybe statement... it must be our wood is not as seasoned as we thought to create this mess so quickly. (?)

Thanks again for sharing the recent example. It helps more than you know!

Backwoods Savage said:

I'm concerned that the new people are either not using their stoves right or making too early of an assessment of the stove.

It is not winter yet!! When the outdoor temperature is 40 or 50 degrees, a tiny fire for a short time should be all you need. Don't try to burn up all your fuel before winter gets here.

I'm also worried that people are leaving the drafts open too far and too long. The stove top temperature isn't raising much so they leave the drafts open. Wrong! Close that thing some and some of that heat will stay in the stove instead of going up the chimney. And don't leave that stove if your draft is open 3/4 or full, or even at 1/2. It can get hot fast. These stoves are designed so that you can close the draft more to keep the heat in the house. For example, ours has settings of 1 though 4. We found that even at 1 it is too much draft once the fire is going. We have it barely open at all and in the winter when we fill the firebox we'll get 550 degree stove top temperature very easily.

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As a newbie one of the main questions I have is At what outside temp should we start filling the stove to the gills and going for the overnight burn? I know everyone has there own preference but I'm just looking for some input?

Also How long should we be leaving the draft open?

Thanks from A Newbie

Peg481 said:

Wow! Thanks! So it is creosote. I was hoping it couldn't form in just 3 days... Wishful thinking. How hot should I try to get it to? Am I correct that the surface of my soapstone should not exceed 500-550? And last question... or maybe statement... it must be our wood is not as seasoned as we thought to create this mess so quickly. (?)

Thanks again for sharing the recent example. It helps more than you know!

Click to expand...

You were listening to someone with a very different kind of stove. Dennis has a Cat. stove, which means he has a catalytic converter like on your car, on his stove.

You MUST burn hot to burn clean. Period. Two or three splits are the worst for you.

Try doing it this way. You said you have a wood lot am I right?

Go out back and get half a wood stove full of small stuff, Like less than 1 inch around.

Take two of your bigger splits and put them in the stove front to back.
Put the sticks in the stove side to side biggest pieces to the back getting smaller till you get to the front. Then take some paper tie it in a knot and put it on top.
Open the draft all the way. light the pieces of paper. Keep the door cracked till the wood starts to catch well.
Close the door. watch the flame build. When it starts to burn across half the pile. Slow the damper down half way.
after a few minutes slow it by half again.
You will see the after burn and feel the heat that that stove can put out for the first time.

Don't worry about over heating the house... the fire will only burn for an hour or two.



Have at it and tell us how hot the stove gets..... You will be very surprised.

Well, it would appear that our problem stems at the wood level, not that I ever discounted new user error/ignorance! I went out and found 5 of the most dry small pieces I could find and let her rip. I let it got much hotter and wilder than the past several days. Whow! The secondary burn kicked in while air supply was still fully open! I throttled back slowly and it has settled down a bit - but still extremely active. Stovetop thermometer reads about 475. We haven't got it that hot since first night (550) I REALLY want to see a clean window and get rid of the black inside the firebox, not to mention the chimney How long should I run it this hot to do that? Okay...

having a non-cat stove with the semi-cat design (everburn) if i just let 2-3 splits in there and closed the dampener it burns out in a few hours...3-4 hours... and it's totally out! thats with the air down to about 10-15% open.... if i close the air 100% the fire/ glowing ash dies and the temps drop, the stove pipe falls to 200 and the stove top drops to 250-300

i don't know what type of house you guys have but... mine is a 2 story and it's not really an open floor plan... i have to get the stove fired up pretty hot to get the heat moving around... i wish i had an open floor plan like an a frame, or even the first level all open!!

also, my house is about 100 yrs old, lacks in the wall insulation, and is a bit drafty.... so perhaps those reason are why i need to keep my stove burning hot....


one more thing... does it matter if someone has a cast stove v.s a steel stove in what stove top temps they see and are considered too hot?


oh and i may have over heated my stove, the paint on the top looks a little weird in the center?? it's like little specs of grey coming through the black.... it's hardly noticeable but i'll keep a better eye on it! nothing inside looks out of the ordinary

Peg481 and Experts,

I'm a Newbie with a Heritage as well. We've been burning relatively small fires lately, but with the temp in the lower 30s this morning, I decided to get a hotter fire going. I'm also worried about Creosote forming in my chimney, mainly because the stove is on the other side of the house next to the 2 kids rooms. So, I want to try and "clean-out the chimney" with a hot fire every so often, so I don't have to take any chances. Reading some posts about some black in the firebox and on the window got me a little concerned. There is some black in our firebox, and the window is not totally clean. The lower-left and lower-right corners are dirty, not black but defintely dirty. So, I got the stovetop to 425 this morning with a nice secondary burn. The fire was burning nice, but it didn't really "clean" the window. I'm definitely going to inspect my chimney this weekend just to check it out.

I was planning on removing the rain-cap and inspecting the chimney at the top. I can also remove the stove pipe from the stove and slide up the telescoping pipe to inspect the pipe from the bottom. BUT... what should I expect? I would assume there would be some creosote in there, but how much should I expect? If there is some but not too much, should I try a long, hot fire to help clean it out? I wouldn't expect to have to clean my chimney every couple weeks (of course not), but I'm not sure about the quality of our wood. We are currently burning some Elm and Wild Cherry. The Elm burns fantastically and appears to be well seasoned. The Cherry burns well (not as well as the Elm), but does seem to have a little moisture in it.

Once again... a nervous Newbie here! I just worry about my younglings

trailblaze said:

having a non-cat stove with the semi-cat design (everburn) if i just let 2-3 splits in there and closed the dampener it burns out in a few hours...3-4 hours... and it's totally out! thats with the air down to about 10-15% open.... if i close the air 100% the fire/ glowing ash dies and the temps drop, the stove pipe falls to 200 and the stove top drops to 250-300

i don't know what type of house you guys have but... mine is a 2 story and it's not really an open floor plan... i have to get the stove fired up pretty hot to get the heat moving around... i wish i had an open floor plan like an a frame, or even the first level all open!!

also, my house is about 100 yrs old, lacks in the wall insulation, and is a bit drafty.... so perhaps those reason are why i need to keep my stove burning hot....


one more thing... does it matter if someone has a cast stove v.s a steel stove in what stove top temps they see and are considered too hot?


oh and i may have over heated my stove, the paint on the top looks a little weird in the center?? it's like little specs of grey coming through the black.... it's hardly noticeable but i'll keep a better eye on it! nothing inside looks out of the ordinary

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I'm confused, do you open and close the bypass damper (lever at back left)? If so describe when you operate it.

Having an old drafty 2 story house with a floor plan that does not lend itself well to heating with a wood stove is never an excuse to make a stove work beyond it's intended heat output. Nobody said you have to run that thing at 10-15%, I and I think others have advised you against running your stove for more than 15 minutes with the bypass damper and the main air intake open all the way.

Try this next over night fire:

Get a fire going with some smaller splits and let it burn with the bypass and main open. Add a few good sized splits and let the new wood load char. This is the time you should be adjusting your main air damper lower to keep the fire in check (below overfiring temp. specified in your manual). When you have a hot enough fire for your everburn system to engage (say 600 or whatever the manual suggests) close the bypass damper and open the main back up all the way. Now wait a few to make sure you have light off. Now you can start closing the main in steps depending on how much heat you need.

Regarding cast vs. steel, yes stove top temps will be different. Pease be aware of the differences between the type of stove you have (convection) and typical steel stoves (radiant).

This is an excellent thread!

FireWalker said:

I'm confused, do you open and close the bypass damper (lever at back left)? If so describe when you operate it.

Having an old drafty 2 story house with a floor plan that does not lend itself well to heating with a wood stove is never an excuse to make a stove work beyond it's intended heat output. Nobody said you have to run that thing at 10-15%, I and I think others have advised you against running your stove for more than 15 minutes with the bypass damper and the main air intake open all the way.

Try this next over night fire:

Get a fire going with some smaller splits and let it burn with the bypass and main open. Add a few good sized splits and let the new wood load char. This is the time you should be adjusting your main air damper lower to keep the fire in check (below overfiring temp. specified in your manual). When you have a hot enough fire for your everburn system to engage (say 600 or whatever the manual suggests) close the bypass damper and open the main back up all the way. Now wait a few to make sure you have light off. Now you can start closing the main in steps depending on how much heat you need.

Regarding cast vs. steel, yes stove top temps will be different. Pease be aware of the differences between the type of stove you have (convection) and typical steel stoves (radiant).

This is an excellent thread!

Click to expand...

i do just about what you said in the "try this over night fire" description... i close the main damper about 1hr into a fire (assuming the draft is good, this morn it was raining and i had to wait a little longer) i only run full air control for about 15-20 mins, then i back it down 50% and let the fire go while until i get some ash bed to work with. once the stove top is 500ish, stove pipe 400-450ish, i load it up with wood, open the air control to get the wood going (5mins maybe) then i close the main damper, and back the air control down to almost closed (slowly)....

i unfortunately, screwed up while leaning and let this stove heat up several times into the upper 600's and once at 750!! this stove seems to heat up to mid 600's pretty easy with the air at 50% or less and the main damper open. once it's there though it's about time to close the damper and everburn

i'm going to check my manual to see what the too hot temp is...

Scared the hell out of me when my duchwest got toooooooo hot. My wife was at the controls and didn't realize what had happened until I got home. It took what seemed like for ever to get the fire calmed down and everything was popping and clanking. My stove top turned grey and the ash grate warped/sagged about 3/8". Anytime you have that bypass (you call it main) damper open you need to be careful.

My Heritage does NOT have a damper, only the air supply lever. Is that one LESS thing to worry about, or one MORE thing to worry about when my fire gets really hot (which I assume would be 450-500 in a soapstone....)? It seems as though the air supply just adjusts WHERE the air is directed (open=bottom front / closed=top back for secondary burn). Would that be correct? As a new burner, it can get my heart rate raised considerable to see, hear, and feel the heat a fast fire can put out! I feel so out of control. I will get used to this, right????

We might see some snow here in Vermont tonight...