Brickwork!! More than I bargained for prepping for insert install - Advice needed!

Thanks in advance for any advice. This forum has been great in educating myself for new install of a PE pacific (medium) wood insert.

To begin, I should have known better (and although I won't admit to her - hwne she sees the destruction!! - my girlfriend was right!!) The house was built or modified by a cheapskate owner, who "micky-moused" alot of stuff.

I will be having a Sweep install the solid stainless liner, and helping with the insert install, as our insurance requires a inspection by a WETT certified person, here in Canada.

Before the install, I would have to pull off some wood trim, and mantel, that surrounds the 1 thin layer of brick border, on the existing fireplace. After removing this wood trim, which I figured, would pull right off, leaving the brick, I was going to lay another layer of brick around the exiting one, to get the clearances needed!!

Well, while prying off the wood trim, The whole front brick trim / facing came loose. I doubt that it was properly constructed in the 1st place, as I don't think a mason would have done it like this! The brick "border" is only 1/2 brick wide/deep, and just mortared against the firebox. It doesn't seemed to be tied into / rebarred to it at all!!

Now, where to go from here??

I can pull off the brick, and add a new brick front that is larger, trying somehow to tie it in with the firebox for strength!

I would like to know what the code implications are, if any, in doing this.

Should I just remove the damper plate and damper handle, as it will be useless - why brick in a functionless handle?


Since I am really just concerned with having the existing fireplace secure enough to install the insert and surround, and meeting the codes re: distances form combustibles, am I OK to repair this myself. I am used to handywork - have done basic brick and mortar, and tile work before.

I did a quick google search for Heatform. So they are a steel liner for the firebox, with brick on the inside? I will be able to tell, if / when I rip off the brick border and adjacent wood strip (that holds the brick vertical). I could likely then see past the edges of the brick firebox, to see if it is just masonary, or masonary / steel.

Would the firebox contruction matter, in trying to ad a new font / sides to the firebox? One thing I can do, when laying new brick, along the sides, and top of the firebox - is to tie the brick to the wood backing by using large screws, or something similar, within the mortar layers. Anything owuld be more stury than what's there now!!

Since the brick border is loose / not really tied to the firebox, should I just pull it off till I get something solid?? Hopefully the firebox!!

The outside chimney is cinder block contruction, with 12" x 12" clay liner, in good condition!! We just replaced the top 6' of it a few months ago, as there were loose bricks!

Further comments / advice??

Well - patience is NOT one of my attributes!! Curiousity is!! So, I pulled off the brick border!! Seemed like a no-brainer, as nothing was really holding it in place anyway.

LMB- Not sure how much use it had. As they are so inefficient, fireplaces are not used that much here, when it is really cold. There is virtually no creosote in the chimney, but of course it may have been cleaned at some point!

I agree with you about the deteriorization of the brick / mortar over time / heat exposure.

So, now that the brickwork boder is off, I guess my girlfriend can have her choice of brick/ color, if she doesn't want to go with what's on the hearth.

I would like to hear any comments / advice of how to connect the new brick front/ firebox border with the existing firebox, which is solid by the way!! The outside of the brick firebox is mortared directly to more brick, as seen behind the wood paneling. in one of the pics! I can see some older drywall over to each side and a steel " heat plate" behind where the mantel was, all of it covered up with the wood panelling you see in the pics. Looks like the previous owner finshed over the original drywall, and likely made a new brick front for the fireplace!!

Obviously, there was smoke / creosote getting up behind the top of the brick border - notice the creosote in the pics!

I chipped off some of the cresoted motar on top of the firebox, and luckily found brick!! I should be able to tie into that with some rebar, when redoing the front with brick! There was nothing but mortar tying it together before!!

I plan on cutting away the wood paneling on each side, and the top, so that the new brick is tied into the old!

LMB - great feedback! I was looking for both structural, and cosmetic - just forgot to ask the right questions! Yes, I will definitely center the insert in the new facing!! I have the specs for the surround, and I plan on having a few inches of tile / brick on each side, and a foot or so on top, to pass the clearance to non-combustible specs!

As I have to extend the hearth out about 12", I have pulled up a couple rows of the laminate flooring. I planned on tiling this. It had not occurred to me to tile the front of the firebox (sides and top). I just assumed it had to be brick, or some type of stone.

Trying to keep the budget dowm so I will likely finish it myself!!

I have a tile hearth (just regular ceramic 12" x 12" floor tiles) at my camp, which has cracked quite a bit, at my camp. Is there a ceratin type of tile that I should use, rather than standard ceramic (or knock-off) flooring tiles??

I do appreciate the advice, and valid concern for safety!!

Thanks for taking the time to provide all of the links / additional info!!
I have read all of the articles, as well as the insert manual, and do understand the need to meet or exceed all clearances.

For the record, a certifed sweep will be installing the liner, and stove. I am just doing all of the prework to make sure that we have non-combustible materials to the specs.

I will be installing new brick to extend out to the sides, and top, beyond what is required for clearances. Then, I may tile over the vertical brick, and horizontal brick hearth, to make it look better.

Does anyone know what kinds of tile are OK to install over brick around the insert (ie that won't crack). I know common flooring tiles are ceramic and marble. I don't mind paying a bit more for the tile, as I won't need that may sq ft.

LMB - Great suggestions on the fiberglass mesh and metal lathes. For the moment, I am going to redo the brick and see how we like the look of it. If we would then rather have tile overtop, I will look into that! I assume that I could then drill / use masonary screws to attach the metal lathes, before doing the tile.

There will only be about 3-4" of brick showing on each side of the surround, and about 15" above the surround.

The damper opening is only 5", and the sweep will be using a few feet of 6" flex liner, to attach to the solid liner above. I am not sure if he intended to cut out the damper plate, to allow the 6" liner, or if he was going to sueeze / oval it a bot, to fit in the 5" wide hole.
Since I am gloing to remove the damper control (no sense passing it through / between the new bricks), I am just wondering if I should use the grinder / cutting wheel to remove the damper plate, and enlarge the hole now!

Is there anything to watch for in cutting out/ widening the damper hole? I have used grinders / cutting wheels, and am competent at that.

Any other advice / tips on brickwork or tiling would be appreciated!!

Lobsta - I appreciate the input re: temps, and the need to protect the wood. The old brick border was only 1/2 a brick wide. The new brick border (that I am half way through laying) is one full brick wide. To your point - that may still not be enough!! I hadn't though so much about temp, as I did specifically about the clearances!!

The new border will give mew a couple inches more on each side, than the stove manual specs for minimum clearances to combustibles. Also, the new brick border sticks out 2" more than the wood trim that runs vertically next to it - so that should shield it form the direct heat.

I would have made the border wider than 1 brick, on each side - however I woudl have then had to cut into the full squares of the wood panels, and it would have looked like sh#t!! So, since I met the clearance specs in the manual, I thought I would be fine.
I will have more than 24" of brick above the insert, per the manual.

Still open to more thoughts and advice!!

Well - finished the brickwork!! And the damper plate came out with just a cotter pin I did not cut the damper yet, as I will wait until the sweep arrives for the liner install.

The brickwork now complies with the distances form combustibles, as outlined in the PE Pacific insert manual. The previous house owner had obviously pulled off part of the brick facing, when he added the wood paneling and decorative mantle, years ago. He ponly left one layer of brick facing, above the firebox, even though there where metal tabs that had been used to tie in the older facing bricks, before his reno.

I would still appreciate any comments / concerns!!

Brent - Thanks for the reply. I definitely like the look of your new fireplace and hearth. With ours, we have the hearth that sticks out in front, and is made of the colonial brick. I though about removing it, down to floor level, but really did not want to tackle a job that large, right now! I only did the brick work, as what was ther was insufficient for clearances, and not well done to start! Total cost was less than $100 for the brick and mortar!

If I had removed the raised hearth, in order to do one at floor level like yours, the firebox (and new insert) would have been about a foot above the floor, and I wasn't sure how that would look! Now that the stucture is solid, I can always look at refinishing it later!

RE: the mantle, I have left the top layer of brick unfinished, and will likely add some type of mantle in the near future, after seeing what the options are!

Yes, I did clean it off before it dried!!

I hear you!! The 1st time someone (not a professional) showed me how to do ceramic tile floors, years ago, he let the grout dry, and then we (I) sanded it off the next day. I din't know the difference!!

A couple years later, I did someone with another guy, who told me the importance of using a sponge and pale(s) of water, to wipe off the grout as it dried to a light white film. MUCH EASIER / less messy than sanding!!