Issues with Ethanol

hydestone said:

I've heard some horror stories about carburator damage resultig from ethanol additives in gasoline. I cannot find any straight gasonline in my area, it all contains up to 10% ethanol.

How are you guys working around the probles of enthanol gumming up or "varnishing" the carb?

Do you simply run it once a month?
Empty the fuel at the end of season?
Use a stabilizer or other treatment?

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Some people have problems with it, I never have. The ethanol eats buna-n rubber thus seals and gaskets fail and you've got a problem. I think viton rubber is ok with ethanol. I don't use stabilizer, keep it full of fuel and I run it when I need it but it can sit for months. Like I said, i've never had a problem but it's possible it can happen.

You shouldnt run ANY 2 stroke out of fuel, as the oil that lubricates it is in said fuel, thus running it out of fuel is also running it out of oil...

i make sure its out of fuel evertime,stihl has stabilizer in there mix.

Here in Iowa since I have lived here (97) all I have run is 10% blend thenal and I have never had a fuel problem with any two stroke or four stroke equipment. I think it is more myth than fact. I even ran it in snowmobiles and no problems there and those can be a lot more $$$ the replace than a saw ever would.

Full of gas at end of season with the last tank run with fuel stabilizer. I have been doing this since 1997 with my 14 year old Toro two stroke mower and ever year it starts on the first pull. I keep thinking if it dies I will get a rider but no such luck.

struggle said:

Here in Iowa since I have lived here (97) all I have run is 10% blend thenal and I have never had a fuel problem with any two stroke or four stroke equipment. I think it is more myth than fact. I even ran it in snowmobiles and no problems there and those can be a lot more $$$ the replace than a saw ever would.

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Oh, it's not a myth. The ethanol does raise hell with some rubbers but I think mfr's have taken that into account where 5 years ago they didn't and there were plenty of problems...though i've never experienced them.

I am sure that running E-85 would be a problem but the 10% stuff I have never had a problem with

It will depend a bit on the engine. Most anything made in the past couple of decades should be fully compatible with 10% ethanol. (Check owners manual to be sure) If it is older, it may or may not be compatible. The only confirmed issues I've heard of are in boats using fiberglass gas tanks - where the ethanol can supposedly leach out resin from the fiberglass - and on older engines which have been run on gas, then switched to 10% ethanol - the ethanol acts as a solvent and can break up gum/varnish deposits left by gas - which can plug fuel filters / carb orifices, etc.

I've run my Husky saw, various weed eaters, leaf blowers, jet skis, etc on 10% ethanol and never seen any problems related to fuel.

Sta-Bil now sells fuel stabilizer formulated for e10 gasoline. It's blue instead of red. Moisture is the problem with e-10, the ethenol bonds with water and seperates out of the gas to the bottom.
Hank

That's exactly right, kork.

Stihl and Husqvarna's stand on this (at least as of a couple months ago when I last checked) was do not leave any fuel in any 2 stroke piece of equipment of theirs while it's not in use, not even overnight. Any fuel related damage will not be covered by warranty. They are not planning on solving the problem with different materials, just sticking the burden on consumers. This is the latest information I have from those guys. Neither company was doing any research (at least that they told me about) on new materials.

kork said:

Sta-Bil now sells fuel stabilizer formulated for e10 gasoline. It's blue instead of red. Moisture is the problem with e-10, the ethenol bonds with water and seperates out of the gas to the bottom.
Hank

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i try dont to use e10 but still have to from time to time i will try and find some so the sta-bril and carry it in the kit! thanks for the info.

Gasoline stations in my area just added stickers to all their pumps stating that they may contain Ethanol. I don't know if it's a CYA action by the major suppliers because they've been hit with a class action by boat owners. Apparently, Ethanol destroys the fiberglass tanks used in many boats. It's also corrosive and damages engines and that's part of the complaint in the lawsuit brought by boat owners. (I suspect big oil is holding it's breath hoping they don't get hit with a class action brought on behalf of all drivers. If they do, I see them settling--they'd have a hard time finding an impartial jury. I see them settling the class action by the boat owners, too. They won't want a lot of information about negative affects of Ethanol being aired publicly.)

All-in-all, we're all going to be finding out the hard way just how corrosive Ethanol is to seals and just about every other part on our engines. I wish I could find a station that sold gasoline without Ethanol. I really don't like it and it reduces mileage to boot.

hydestone said:

Have any of you ever tried AVGAS?

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AV Gas (the blue gas) is 100 octane w/ tetraethyl lead added. TEL is a great anti-knock additive but I'm not too sure I want to breath it all day long from an engine few feet from my head.

Do not leave E10 gasoline in containers that are NOT tightly sealed.

E10 is causing alot of problems in the marine industry where I live, mostly because boat vents are always open and available to absorb moisture from the air.

I have had no problems with fuel in tightly capped containers.

If you think you have a fuel separation problem, pour the fuel into a tall glass jar. The separated ethanol will show up as a milky layer below the gasoline, and above any clear water on the very bottom.

Now this brings up a question: Drygas?

I am in the habit of putting a bottle of isopropyl alcohol in the gas tank before winter sets in. I know with all the humidity around here that there is bound to be some water laying around along with it. Will IPA absorb this like it is supposed to or will the ethanol interfere with it? Will ethanol do more or less the same thing? Any fuel chemists around here?

Chris

Redox said:

I am in the habit of putting a bottle of isopropyl alcohol in the gas tank before winter sets in.

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I've never found a need or urge to use it. Water will freeze into crystals and be stopped by filtering. Alcohol tends to ice the carb as it vaporizes. The chilling effect freezes the moisture in the air. Not sure if ethanol will do the same as I don't use it.

LLigetfa said:

Redox said:

I am in the habit of putting a bottle of isopropyl alcohol in the gas tank before winter sets in.

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I've never found a need or urge to use it. Water will freeze into crystals and be stopped by filtering. Alcohol tends to ice the carb as it vaporizes. The chilling effect freezes the moisture in the air. Not sure if ethanol will do the same as I don't use it.

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Well.... that's probably because you don't have any humidity, either. :cheese: Down here in the steamy mid Atlantic, moist air gets sucked into your gas tank as the temperature changes. It condenses on the walls of the tank and runs down into the bottom and forms a puddle. The fuel pump can suck up droplets of water that then lay in the low parts of the fuel system and freezes in cold weather. If it is bad enough, the engine starves for fuel and dies. Putting alcohol in the tank is supposed to allow the water to mix with the gasoline and be burned relatively harmlessly. I've always been told that isopropyl does this better than methyl alcohol and I'm not sure how ethanol affects this process.

Chris

Ethanol is just another teat for goverment parasite lobbyist to suck on...

A fuel nobody wanted that was invented/forced on the public by the naive but well intentioned greens and the big farm ADM-like agri lobby's.

Another goverment cluster F like remember 20 years ago how recycling was to make trash pickup almost pay for itself? Like our Post Office that's overseen by a board of govenuers appointed by the junk mail industry..that force million of tons of unwanted junk mail scams upon the public. Or how about the FCC that's supposed to regulate airwaves so that at any one time half the channels you pay for are infomercials or embarrass you with personal products or harass you with volume that's twice as loud as the regular programing? And you may as well throw in all the televised credit card scam/commercials the Gov has failed to crack down on too.

Sorry to say it but if it's 'legislated' or brought to you by Uncle Sam there'll be unfortunate unintended consequences because of the lack of tried and true self correcting market forces.

Don't hold back. Tell us how your really feel.

(IKWYM)

CowboyAndy said:

You shouldnt run ANY 2 stroke out of fuel, as the oil that lubricates it is in said fuel, thus running it out of fuel is also running it out of oil...

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Stihl recommends running it's saws out of fuel....

I wouln'd add regular dry gas to ethenol. Youare basically adding MORE alchol. Use stabill or startron.

sl7vk said:

Stihl recommends running it's saws out of fuel....

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That is their lame answer to ethanol. With dino fuel I would never run a saw out of fuel deliberately. The fuel keeps the rubber parts supple. You don't want them drying out and cracking/warping. My carb still has all the original parts.

LLigetfa said:

sl7vk said:

Stihl recommends running it's saws out of fuel....

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That is their lame answer to ethanol. With dino fuel I would never run a saw out of fuel deliberately. The fuel keeps the rubber parts supple. You don't want them drying out and cracking/warping. My carb still has all the original parts.

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So do you keep your saw full to the brim when not in use, or do you manually empty it back into a can?