Alright, clearly I am doing something wrong. Hopefully we can figure out what.

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pr0vidence

New Member
Nov 11, 2007
63
south central CT
Greetings all!

I am calling on your expertise for what I hope will be the last time. This will be a long winded post, so I'll wait while you get some coffee.


Ok. In a nutshell, I have an Avalon Rainier, it's brand new, just installed about 6 weeks ago, been burning a little over 4 weeks when it's cold at night here in CT. I, for some reason, can't seem to get efficient burns out of my stove, and I haven't the faintest idea why. I realize this process isn't rocket science, but I'm starting to feel like I need to study thermodynamics in order to get this right.

My observations:

I start my fires by piling a few broken up bits of a pallet onto some newspaper, or a lightning nugget and lighting it up. Once it has caught sufficiently, I put usually 2 small splits on top to get going. At this point I let it go until it burns down to coals, stove usually manages to get up to 250-300 during this time.

Once down to coals I'll usually rake the coals up front and put 3 or 4 splits on top, close the door and put the air on high. Once the logs have all caught with bright orange flames, and the wood has begun to char, I pull the air out a little bit so not all the heat is flying right up the chimney. If I leave it like that the flames will dance happily, and it will warm to about 400-450 degrees. This is about as warm as I can get stove stove without a full load. If I leave the air open all the way, it won't top 350 degrees. By pulling the air down, it slowly warms to about 450, maybe 500 tops and hovers around there until the fire dies down and it goes to coals, where the stove begins to cool, slowly, over a period. For 3-4 splits I might get 3 hours useful burn/heat time out of it. That feels like it's about right, right? One thing I definitely can NOT do is cut the air all the way down, the fire goes out and it smokes to high heaven.

Ok, now here's the big one. If I stuff the stove to the gills, and let the air go on high, the stove burns with fury, the entire box full of brilliant flame, the stove will warm at full air until about 450. At this point if I pull the air down to about half, the temp will shoot up to 550, approaching 600 in about 15-20 minutes. So far, so good, right? I will usually them try to slowly pull the air down a little more, secondary will kick off. Sometimes I can get the temp a little above 600. Feels like it's rumbling along at this point. So here's the part I can't work out.

If I cut the air all the way down, it looks like it works beautifully. Secondary flames bust fourth and engulf almost all of the open space in the stove. The flame on the actual wood diminishes, but doesn't die out. Everything seems like it's proper. the stove will even warm to about 650 for a brief period. Things look great and I'll leave it to it's work and walk away. If I check it again 20 minutes later, the stove's cooled to about 550, the secondary has disappeared, the flames on the logs are still small, and a check on the chimney shows thick smoke billowing out and into the heavens. This forces me to let the air up about half way until the stove catches back up, and them pull it back down to maybe an inch from all the way down in order to maintain smoke-free burning. However, as the wood supply diminishes, and the stove cools, I am constantly having to adjust the air and allow more and more in in order to keep all my fuel from going up in smoke, literally.

I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I've loaded the stove up to the brim at midnight, got it rolling, cut the air down as far as I can to where the stove will maintain flame, and goto bed. Next morning (7am) there are no coals, and the stove is stone cold.

The wood I am using is VERY dry, there is no noticeable sizzling when it burns, and popping/crackling is to a minimum. I have oak that was cut down 1.5 years ago, and some cedar/beech that was cut down probably 2 years ago. Both were split in the early spring and left to sit on pallets covered from the rain all summer. So I don't think it's the wood.

I noticed that the installer had to oval the liner a bit to fit it into the chimney (see attached photo). SWMBO tells me he said that this happens all the time and won't affect burning, but I'm including a photo here anyway just to be certain. I didn't know if ovaled liners perhaps restrict draft.

Is something wrong with my burn process? am I cutting air down too soon? I don't see how this stove could overfire if the air is left on high, it never seems to get much above 450 even with a full load of wood, perhaps I am just not leaving it long enough, but this is after 20 minutes or so.

I have (had) about 3 cords of wood ready to go for this season, I've put a nasty dent in it already trying to learn how the stove works and how to burn it properly, and it hasn't even gotten cold yet! I'm just afraid that my inefficient burning is going to leave us cold and at the mercy of the oilman before the end of the season.

Alright, I've nearly exhausted the character count for this post. I know this was long but I wanted to include as much detail as I could think to include so that hopefully someone could pinpoint my problem. I guess that's it. I really want to get this working properly because man, when she's rolling and heat is just radiating off it, it's really, really nice.

If you are still reading, thanks for hanging in there, and sorry for the long-winded-noob-whineyness.
 

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Pro, the weather hasn't been that cold. Maybe you have a draft issue with the weather?

I'm sure the guru's will chime in soon.
 
DTDEH,

I have considered that as well, but I have read of others here in CT having very successful burns. I'm not saying that isn't it. It is getting into the mid-to-low 30s here at night, is that still too warm? I don't know how cold it needs to be before proper draft can be established. Seems like near or below freezing should be close, right?
 
I never shut the 30-NC or the Jotuls' primary air all the way down and many other people with lots of other brands here don't either. A quarter or a little less keeps things alive and well and gets the longest burns for me.
 
30's are plenty cold enough. And it sounds like things are going fairly well operationally. Reading through the long post the question appears to be: where to set the air control for a good overnight burn? Is that correct? The answer will vary with every stove and installation. From your experience maybe this is somewhere just before completely closed off, maybe about 1/8 to 1/4 open? I'd give that a try for a couple nights and see what happens.
 
OK here is my help and I had the Avalon Pendelton, the little guy stove and I now have the big boy, the Olympic.

First off, it is going to be a little more difficult for you to get that overnight burn with only a 1.8 cu ft firebox, but it can be done and I have seen it.
Question 1 : do you have the thermometer on the stovetop? Probably so right, so no worries.

It seems with the Avalons you can't shut it down completely and it helps a lot to shut it down in stages. I also have a PE Summit and you can shut it down all the way and let the EBT (extended burn technology) do the work for you. But Avalons don't have this, no big deal. It looks like you are getting good temps, so you must have plenty of draft, I think it is 15 feet from bottom of stove to chimney cap minimum of piping (but check the manual nonetheless). Sometimes dealers only care about codes not total length you need for a good draft. If you have enough draft, get that beast again to 550-600F and start closing her down to 1/2, then after 10-15 minutes close her to 1/4 or 1/3 open and keep her there for the rest of the night. If you have a good coal bed you will get close to an overnight burn.

It is hard with the smaller firebox to get that desired overnight burn with coals this is exactly why I went big with the Olympic stove, I wanted the freedom to put large splits in and the ease of overnight burns. But my Olympic will blow me out of the room with the blower on so my choice is not prefect either ;-)

How do you put the wood in it too? East/west-side loading or north/south-front to back loading. E/West will give you longer burns and N/S will give you shorter hotter burns. With your firebox I would imagine you put mostly east/west but if you cut the wood shorter you could put some north south too.

Another strike against you is the height of the firebox, I am sure it is difficult to stuff it like the way most would do. Still, just cutting the wood the size you need can correct any problems you might have.

The Rainer is a great stove and will give you years of warmth and happiness, it just takes time sometimes to get the sweet spot. I am totally obsessed with stoves and I am still trying to get that perfect burn. I love the look of that stove and it is very effecient

So try keeping the air 1/4 to 1/3 open and do not shut all the way down. This should help, if not there must be another problem. No worries, there a lot of good guys here and we won't quit until you are happy :)
 
BeGreen said:
30's are plenty cold enough. And it sounds like things are going fairly well operationally. Reading through the long post the question appears to be: where to set the air control for a good overnight burn? Is that correct? The answer will vary with every stove and installation. From your experience maybe this is somewhere just before completely closed off, maybe about 1/8 to 1/4 open? I'd give that a try for a couple nights and see what happens.

Damn BeGreen over 10,000 posts! You rock :lol:
 
Thanks for the replies all.

BeGreen, yes overnight burns, I guess, is the ultimate goal, but my concern really is in more of an overall sense. I just wanna make sure it's going right.

JFK, thanks for the reply, I appreciate you lending your experience with the Avalon stoves. The thermometer is on the front face of the stove, on the upper left hand corner by the door, similar to the place you have your termo on your Avalon in the video in your sig. Perhaps that is just what it is. I was expecting that I should be able to get it to the point where I can shut the air all the way down and secondary would take care of the rest. I guess that's not so much the case. I guess I'll have to learn where the sweetest of sweet spots is on this stove. I've zeroed it in to about 1/2 inch in from all the way out, so I figure it'll be around there in general. If I gotta get up a bit earlier to get the stove cooking again, then that'll be what I have to do. That will be tough, I am NOT a morning person. We considered the Olympic for the extra cubic footage/burn time, but it wouldn't fit in the space we had to jam a stove into. The rainier warms the house nicely when it's at full throw, it'll be 40 degrees outside and 70 inside, I can't complain too much about that. The real test will be when it's 0 out.

Right, well it seems I have more learning and fine tuning to do.
 
Providence - I don't have your stove but on mine loading to the gills from brick to baffle is not recommended for secondary burn. Does your manual state how high your stack should go? Try leaving 3 to 6 inches of space between the top of the wood to the secondary tubes.
 
Howdy Chett,

Ask JFK stated, the firebox height on the Rainier is pretty short, allowing 3-6 inches of headroom doesn't give me much room for wood! I've read through the manual 2 times and don't recall it saying anything about leaving head space in the firebox when loading, but I'll check again. I could be wrong.
 
Providence - My thought is if it is smoldering and losing temperature, its not getting enough oxygen and I'll bet its because the stove box is too full of wood. Try getting it hot but leave some more space and then shut the primary all the way down. I shut my primary down completely and get strong secondaries for a long time.

Let us know how you solve this.
 
I did not see where you mentioned how long your chimney was. How long is it?

You for sure need to use a block of plate where you are going through the dampener like others have said. Your are essentially trying to heat the whole space instead of your inside home area.
 
pr0vidence said:
Thanks for the replies all.

BeGreen, yes overnight burns, I guess, is the ultimate goal, but my concern really is in more of an overall sense. I just wanna make sure it's going right.

JFK, thanks for the reply, I appreciate you lending your experience with the Avalon stoves. The thermometer is on the front face of the stove, on the upper left hand corner by the door, similar to the place you have your termo on your Avalon in the video in your sig. Perhaps that is just what it is. I was expecting that I should be able to get it to the point where I can shut the air all the way down and secondary would take care of the rest. I guess that's not so much the case. I guess I'll have to learn where the sweetest of sweet spots is on this stove. I've zeroed it in to about 1/2 inch in from all the way out, so I figure it'll be around there in general. If I gotta get up a bit earlier to get the stove cooking again, then that'll be what I have to do. That will be tough, I am NOT a morning person. We considered the Olympic for the extra cubic footage/burn time, but it wouldn't fit in the space we had to jam a stove into. The rainier warms the house nicely when it's at full throw, it'll be 40 degrees outside and 70 inside, I can't complain too much about that. The real test will be when it's 0 out.

Right, well it seems I have more learning and fine tuning to do.

Forgot to tell you I have one thermometer on the front and another on the stovetop :)
 
Chett is right. EPA re-burn stoves need some space between the wood and the baffle for a combustion chamber. Even on my Jotuls that have fireboxes the size of shoe boxes I leave some space over the wood under the baffle and that is where most of the combustion occurs.
 
I also have a Rainer. Used it to heat for about 3 or 4 years.Does a great job but it seems you are married to it.I couldnt get much over 4 to 5 hrs out of it. The wood was loaded east to west stacked as hi as I could get in there(about 10 pieces they were split small to really load it up)Yes it burned nice. Kept the damper pulled just about all the way closed Maybe 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch pushed in. Just enough to feed it some air,I had no smoke at all,just see the heat waves out the top of the chimney.Had enough of splitting that wood into small pieces. Installed a GW100 this summer been up and going just under a month,the house is an even 74 - 76 n all is well.. As for the avalon to get it to reach a 7 or 8 hr burn good luck 5 hrs is a stretch. Just have to wake up n load it, It sucks but i did it for 4 years i didnt even need an alarm clock. Loaded it at 10 pm, woke up anywhere from 2 to 4 am n reload again. Good luck seems you are doin everything rite just the nature of that animal. I know the dealer I got mine from preached 10 to 12 hr burn times like to know what kinda clock they use.. Good luck
 
Up here in the NE, if the oak was only cut down 1 1/2 years ago & only split this spring, I really, really, really doubt it is seasoned enough. I have oak that was split over 1 1/2 years ago that is not ready yet. This has been stacked under an open tent like structure since it was split. This is in the just North of Boston area. I'm pretty sure you also had all the wet weather we had this year.
Al
Al
 
prO, I am nearing the end of the learning curve for my new PE Spectrum and my initial learning experiences were similar to yours. The most efficient (sweet spot) air position on this stove once the fire is fully burning is: turn the air fully "off" then open it about 1/8. This position will vary a teensy bit depending upon the amount of wood, size of wood, species of wood, rounds or splits, etc. When burning large rounds I move the air control to a "center" position for 5 - 10 minutes before stepping it down to 1/8 open.

You'll get it right. It might take just a little more time than you expected.

John_M
 
SE Mass with standing dead oak cut/split 1 1/2 yrs ago and it's almost ready (very shady yard)

I burn in my fireplace so I go through 1 t o 1 1/2 cord. Of the 2 1/2 cord of oak and maple I cut at the same time only about 3/4 cord of the smaller splits are ready (plus some mystery wood that I had to butcher with a maul to split - I'll be giddy to burn that stuff as payback for a sore back!)

Check the wood and make sure it is really dry - grab a couple of bundles of grocery store wood for a $10 test.

Aaron
 
lobsta1 said:
Up here in the NE, if the oak was only cut down 1 1/2 years ago & only split this spring, I really, really, really doubt it is seasoned enough. I have oak that was split over 1 1/2 years ago that is not ready yet. This has been stacked under an open tent like structure since it was split. This is in the just North of Boston area. I'm pretty sure you also had all the wet weather we had this year.
Al
Al
I also highly doubt that oak is anywhere close to being dry. Resplit a few pieces and check them with a moisture meter. I'll bet the oak is >30%. I live in the same area and my oak takes a LOT longer than 6 months to dry once split... and it hardly dries at all until it's split. You might have other issues, but I'd start with the basics... gotta have dry wood!
 
Just echoing what other Avalon owners have said. My Olympic would practically go out if I shut the air all the way down. Keep experimenting with the air controls until you find the sweet spot in between a hot 4 hour burn and a smoky smolder.
 
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