Pellet Stoves - NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE?

tinkabranc · Nov 11, 2008

It does sound like you purchased a stove with little research and are
now dissapointed that there is more to it than just flipping a switch.

As the others have mentioned, you have only had the insert for a short
time so you have not had a chance to learn it's "personality" yet.
Give it some time to get used to it and stick around. There are alot of
great people on this forum here to help when needed.

itworks · Nov 11, 2008

I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. I'm sure many members of this forum, based on some of my postings, think I'm a pellet stove basher. Actually, since 2004 when my closest friend said "we're buying pellet stoves" (he's amazingly intelligent, and knows more about home construction, and how to save a dollar more than anyone I have ever met) I've researched them for years and now it makes sense. He was convinced we both needed Harman P68's. We then visited dealers in our area and struck a deal to purchase two of them, and have them installed with all the necessary piping, and 20 bags of NEWP's , at a cost of $2,800 each. I kind of thought I was crazy, but after burning approximately one thousand forty pound bags I'm extremely happy that I bought the stove. Since owning the stove I have always purchased my pellets at the end of the heating season, and have never paid more than $225 a ton delivered into my garage. My stove is located in the lower level of a raised ranch that's approximately 1136 sq ft. I also have a new high efficiency oil heater, and that thermostat is set at 66 degrees. I'm kind of anal, I keep meticulous records, and my average annual oil consumption is approximately 75 gallons. My domestic hot water is supplied by an 80 gallon electric water heater that's connected to a timer which has no effect on my home heating cost. When I compare my costs vs using oil to heat my home, I know I've paid for my stove and more. The family loves the stove. It's like having the ambience of a fireplace running 24/7. I spend about five minuets a day scraping the burn pot, adding a bag of pellets(forgive me I've never screened, cleaned, or massaged any of them), and clean the glass with a damp sponge. Weekly I spend about 20 minutes emptying the ash pan in my flower beds, and vacuuming the stove. At the end of the heating season I spend approximately 2-3 hours cleaning the stove and pipes. My house is warm and comfortable at a very reasonable cost, with what I think is reasonable effort attached. With that said ,I recently started a thread "why would anyone buy a pellet stove today?, and there was some really great replies. I'm really not sure what's going on today, but I certainly wouldn't purchase a stove in this environment and pay around $3-5 thousand to have it installed, and pay $300-400 for a ton of pellets (when available) to heat my home with pellets.

I'm really glad I bought my stove, but realize it's not the right decision for everyone. There's some work involved, space to store the pellets, and planning. I'm pretty sure I have a good stove, but you should realize they're just big space heaters, and won't heat all homes to a comfort level.

Since joining this forum my biggest question is do I really need an outside air vent. Haven't had one since 2004, and everything seems to work fine.

ablejoy · Nov 12, 2008

First Year with my pellet stove I to have been using it for a month. The stove has worked perfect for us and we have yet to fire the furnace. Our propane company dropped us 190 gallons of propane at a cost of $572.00. I have 2 tons of pennington pellets that burn just fine I empty the pot once a day and vacuum the stove once a week. The weather is turning cold now in the 20's ans 30's the house stays at 70 degree on low setting. I am averaging a bag every 2 days. I don't mind cleaning the stove and not firing the main furnace I hope it will pay for its self in 2 yrs or less. Last year propane cost us $2800.00 for 975 gallons 90 % was used for heat.
We paid for install and city permits I have nothing but good things to say about the company that installed my stove and Quadra - Fire

JBlank912 · Nov 12, 2008

I'm still on automatic oil delivery due to a contract issue. We filled up near the end of August. The oil company, based on heat days, will deliver when they think we need 225 gallons or more. They delivered today (3 months after last delivery). 49gal to fill up not 225 gal as they thought it would be. Thats what the pellet stove saved me along with being warmer then with the oil because I'm not afraid of the cost. Saudi Arabia, keep your oil! :coolsmile:

hossthehermit · Nov 12, 2008

Bottom line is, they are not for everyone. Those of you who decide to stay with oil, NG, or whatever, because of the effort involved in burning wood, pellets, corn, rye, switchgrass, or cherry pits, should simply bow down, and admit that those of us who choose to do our part to protect the environment, and eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, even if it means getting off the couch and doing something, are naturally superior. My word, I DO go on, don't I? Basically, if you're too lazy to clean your stove or feed it, stick with your oil monster. It's better than burning down your house.

Mr Whitfield · Nov 12, 2008

I've been using a pellet stove for 5 years, had a wood burning insert. I heat my whole house with my whitfield Adv II insert, 1800 sq ft. I have a Gas Heater, but enjoy the looks of a fire burning in my fireplace. Yes its a little work but worth it. I always tell people to look on Craigslist for a good used stove or insert. I would never buy new , you just need to be a little handy..

aquidneckheat · Nov 12, 2008

Hi everyone!

Thank you so much for all your responses to my posting.

A few key points:

1) I realized some maintenance would be involved - My dealer said about 5 minutes per day, and a good cleaning once per week when the ash pans would be full with maybe a "tea cup" of ash. I measured the actual amount of ash and it was 2 cups of ash in 24 hours! If I leave the pellet stove running for 3 days I can't even see the fire.

2) I estimate my actual maintenance time at 15 minutes per day, plus 30 minute thorough cleaning once a week. This is about 1.5 hours to 2 hours per week.

3) Absolutely right that this is just a space heater. Hard as I try I cannot get the heat to move from the front of my ranch to the back of the ranch, so I am only heating 900 square feet (very well).

4) In Rhode Island, the cost of pellets just went up again to about $300 to $325 per ton plus delivery charges. I purchased my first 2 tons 3 months ago for $275 per ton.

5) I agree that if this is a hobby or enjoyable for you, then the maintenance time doesn't count as you actually enjoy maintaining the stove. In my case, I enjoy it a little, but I do have a family and many other responsibilities to take care of, so I cannot afford to spend 15 minutes per day on the stove.

6) St. Croix states explicitly in their manual that you have to do a daily and periodic cleaning for the stove to operate properly. If you don't, you may end up having problems down the road.

7) I completed an analysis of my current heating system (oil furnace, 20 years old) versus the pellet stove cost (including maintenance costs, as my time is valuable), and the total cost to heat my home would be $7,000 for the oil, and $6,000 for the pellet stove. My oil furnace is old, so it is only running at about 35% efficiency. If I switched, it would cost me about $4,000 per year to heat my home. I also included in my analysis if I switched to natural gas, as National Grid is running a special conversion offer in my area, and the estimated cost per year for Natural Gas would only be $2,000 per year. Also, the state of the art system I am considering actually filters the air in the home, and maintains the level of humidity, plus it communicates wirelessly with all of the thermostats in the house. You can also dial it from your cell phone and control it while you are away. It has an EPA estimated efficiency of 85-95%.

I am attaching a chart of my results so you can see a true "apples to apples" comparison of various heating methods. I did my best to compare accurately, as this is a big decision for me and my family.

aquidneckheat · Nov 12, 2008

woodsman23 said:
here is my thoughts on your purchase of a St Croix insert. You thought you would save a bundle, get more heat, it will look great (which it does by the way). You found out is was much more work than you thought ex: "i have to carry in a 40 lb bag every day" WAaaaaaaaa how else do you think the stove is going to get loaded??. Then you go on bashing a excellent stove maker and you have not even used the stove long enough to rate it period. ex: blower is to noisy, paint is falling off control unit looks like its from the 70's cheap metal etc... You also have the worse pellets ever made "Pennington" junk as are PA pellets. Dry creek pellets are made 15 miles from my house and they are hard to get even here but can be found. Daily cleaning of the glass WAAA again it's wood hello. Also the manuals you say are junk are below and are very well done and show you everything you need to know so thats just you not being a happy camper. I understand your dilemma, you thought is was going to be like turning on the gas for the winter and found out things are different and they are. St Croix makes a great stove and nothing about my Afton Bay seems like cheap metal. I start it and leave it and that's all i do UNTIL it's time to clean it once a week. It throws out enough heat for my house and i have had nothing but great compliments on the stove from all my friends and neighbors,heck my neighbors went out and bought the very same stove and we have both been burning for 2 years and have no complants. Below is a pic of your insert, it is a great looking pellet burner if you have everything adjusted right then simply call St Croix and ask them for some help and be surprised they want to help always. If not then Maybe a gas fireplace is the way to go. If i can assist you in any way please PM me and i will help you out. Like some others have said it's not for everyone...

http://www.stcroixheat.com/prod_inserts_york.htm

http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/York_Insert_Installation_Manual_12-05.pdf
http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/York_Insert_Operation_Manual_12-05.pdf

Hi, if you knew me you would know that I am the last guy in the world to complain about doing work. And the issue is not lack of research, I spent countless hours researching the various stoves. There is very little information on the St. Croix. The Harman's are just not available. I read all I could about the stove, and I read the manual from cover to cover before I started operating my stove. So lack of knowledge, lazyness, etc does not qualify here as a "reason" for my problems.

If I pay someone $3,000 for a piece of equipment, I expect them to hold high standards. In my opinion, St. Croix's technology is very, very crude. If you are happy, that's great. I am not saying that all of the stoves they make are bad. Just that for $3,000, the cost does not justify what you are getting.

My_3_Girls · Nov 12, 2008

I must be missing something.... you understood there would be maint. involved, and you don't have time for it, you did all the research and found that a new, efficient gas furnace would be the least expensive.... and you still installed a pellet stove? I'm not attacking, just trying to understand the choice for pellet over gas? You also acknowlege that the pellet stove doesn't heat the entire area, so you still have to use some sort of central heat.

Xena · Nov 12, 2008

aquidneckheat said:
Hi everyone!

Thank you so much for all your responses to my posting.

A few key points:

1) I realized some maintenance would be involved - My dealer said about 5 minutes per day, and a good cleaning once per week when the ash pans would be full with maybe a "tea cup" of ash. I measured the actual amount of ash and it was 2 cups of ash in 24 hours! If I leave the pellet stove running for 3 days I can't even see the fire.

2) I estimate my actual maintenance time at 15 minutes per day, plus 30 minute thorough cleaning once a week. This is about 1.5 hours to 2 hours per week.

3) Absolutely right that this is just a space heater. Hard as I try I cannot get the heat to move from the front of my ranch to the back of the ranch, so I am only heating 900 square feet (very well).

4) In Rhode Island, the cost of pellets just went up again to about $300 to $325 per ton plus delivery charges. I purchased my first 2 tons 3 months ago for $275 per ton.

5) I agree that if this is a hobby or enjoyable for you, then the maintenance time doesn't count as you actually enjoy maintaining the stove. In my case, I enjoy it a little, but I do have a family and many other responsibilities to take care of, so I cannot afford to spend 15 minutes per day on the stove.

6) St. Croix states explicitly in their manual that you have to do a daily and periodic cleaning for the stove to operate properly. If you don't, you may end up having problems down the road.

7) I completed an analysis of my current heating system (oil furnace, 20 years old) versus the pellet stove cost (including maintenance costs, as my time is valuable), and the total cost to heat my home would be $7,000 for the oil, and $6,000 for the pellet stove.

1- Your ash pan is smaller than the one in my st croix so
I can see how you would have to empty it more frequently.
Like I said, daily I scrape the pot, do a dry wipe down of the glass,
and run the heat exchange scraping tube. Wipe up around the
front of the stove where some ash falls. Takes less than 5 mins.

2- pretty much answer 1 applies here too

3-Some home layouts just aren't great for a stove of any kind.
Sounds as if yours is one of them. These definitely are space heaters
so while they may sometimes do better in an open floor plan, much of
the time these stoves will be used to supplement your main heat source.

4- It's important to buy pellets in early Spring for the better pricing.
Buy too late, you pay big bucks.

5- On a daily basis all you should have to do is scrape the pot once,
give the heat exchange tube scraper a couple a pulls, dry wipe the glass with a soft cloth,
and wipe up the floor in front of the stove. Less than five minutes.
I'm guessing your pellets might have a high ash content which is requiring
more work. If you did your prior research on this forum, you would know that lousy pellets
can add lots of extra work to the maintenance of the stove so an extra 10
minutes over the 5 your dealer mentioned doesn't seem odd to me adding
the fact that you're a newb and haven't had the stove long enough to
get in the groove of the maintenance.
Over time you will get faster at the cleaning. I can pretty much knock it out
in 3 minutes a day if I'm using clean burning pellets. Dirty pellets will require
me to spend more time....often times having to clean the burnpot, etc. several
times a day instead of once.

6- If you've done the other maintenance daily, the only thing that
you may need to do weekly or twice a month is vac out the ash traps.
I do that once a month when I shut the stove off for a full cleanout,
but again, crappy pellets will force you to do this more often. Been
there done that so I know it can be a pita.

7- Yep, it isn't all about saving money but if you overpaid for the pellets
now that oil has dropped in price well then I can see your frustration.

insuranceman1 · Nov 12, 2008

My_3_Girls said:
I must be missing something.... you understood there would be maint. involved, and you don't have time for it, you did all the research and found that a new, efficient gas furnace would be the least expensive.... and you still installed a pellet stove? I'm not attacking, just trying to understand the choice for pellet over gas? You also acknowlege that the pellet stove doesn't heat the entire area, so you still have to use some sort of central heat.

That is exactly what I was going to say. If you read it and researched it then why are you complaning about the work that you knew was going to be involved anyway.

Souzafone · Nov 12, 2008

Ok, I understand you're frustrated a bit, but really, we're talking about burning leftover scraps of wood and sawdust that's been compressed, not refined petroleum products, fuel from a piplined network that many have no access to (like me), or electricity. I don't understand why a lot of people want to complicate the simple act of burning wood, I'm grateful for the auger, blower and thermostat. Part of the appeal of a stove is the simplicity.
As far as your chart, I don't see it as apples to apples. You have no maintenance for electric heat, you're charging yourself a lot of labor to maintain your pellet stove, and oil furnace #1 has no equipment cost. If these figures are true, and the price of gas remains low, anything other than gas is foolish from a money standpoint.
I maintain that for some effort, and buying premium pellets from the correct sources at the correct time has been my cheapest option for the last few years, and the foreseeable future. There are a lot of things I won't buy at a big box store, pellets is one of them. Besides an inferior product, they are handled way too much, that is why you get too many fines. If you spend thousands of dollars from anyone, shouldn't you check them out first? If you buy a car from a dealer using price as your only purchasing basis, should you be surprised when their service department is sub par?

breklaw · Nov 12, 2008

Wow! Hi guys, I am Bill, a Central MA newbie to this forum, and I've had my 25-PDVC/55-SHP10 , build date 9/03, since 04. I purchased it from Lowes ($375) as it was being returned in a pickup truck, and actually spoke to the guy returning it, who was trading it in for a bigger stove- he was trying to heat 2800 feet with it, and it didn't do the job. I have a 100 year old 1800 foot house, 2 stories, and if my oil burner comes on once a season for anything but hot water, it is because I have told it to. My main living area on the first floor stays in the 70's, and my bedrooms and baths upstairs are in the 60's. Even when it is 5 degrees outside. I have never heard of sifting, WTF??? I burn whatever peletts I can find, but like the LG brand. I am saving those for colder weather, burning what I bought piecemeal waiting for my 3 ton delivery, which I am going to move into the garage shortly. As far as maintanance, I scrape the burn pot daily, add pellets AM and PM, and do a weekly cleaning with my shiop vac. I actually feel like I am helping out the environment, burning stuff that years ago rotted away in the woods, giving off the same amount of emisions, slowly over time- now it is heating my home. Very warmly, thank you. My oil comapny returned my check for a service contract after my first winter, saying I didn't buy enough oil. Peterson Oil in Worcester MA SUCKS! I have recently, since this summer, been getting 5 gals of deisel and using that for HW. I will get the minimum 100 gal delivery when the price bottoms, which looks soon. Pellet stoves are NOT for everyone! They are an interactive device. If I have a date, I may clean the glass. Or, if I feel like having the ambiance. Right now, you can't tell my stove is running. I do have a question in all this- I am unhappy about the soot on my roof, after these years of burning about 4 ton/yr. I am thinking of going up another section, but by the calcs done using the forum I am already at 22 feet using 3". The formula says to go to 4" if you are over 15'. Does that mean I should adapt to 4" and add a 4" section, and a new cap? Or should I have gone 4" the whole way? I also noticed one of my supports at the top, that run to the roof, is missing a screw to the pipe. I tried to get the cap off to drop down a cleaning brush, but I need 3 hands to hold the pipe while I unscrew the cap. Going out to buy a strap wrench, hopefully that will help. Are the supports simply EMT hammered flat at the ends? I will need to add support IF I go up another 3 feet. What are your thoughts on this? My stove burns very well, a couple of 3" scraper fulls of ash pushed to the sides every day, and rarely having to use my MAP torch to light it again. 3 seasons on this leftover handheld tank of MAP on my pushbutton torch. Oh, my setting are Low Fire Feed 2, Low Burn Air 7, and Air On Thermostat 2. Oh, and who would have thought you have to carry the pellets? What is up w/ that?

tinkabranc · Nov 12, 2008

breklaw said:
Wow! Hi guys, I am Bill, a Central MA newbie to this forum, What is up w/ that?

if you post your questions in a new topic, you will get more exposure.

webbie · Nov 12, 2008

Souzafone said:
Ok, I understand you're frustrated a bit, but really, we're talking about burning leftover scraps of wood and sawdust that's been compressed, not refined petroleum products, fuel from a piplined network that many have no access to (like me), or electricity. If you buy a car from a dealer using price as your only purchasing basis, should you be surprised when their service department is sub par?

I think maybe a lot of us are missing the point.

The hype surrounding pellets and pellets stoves has been so strong that it is difficult for most people to make an informed decision. This has been so since pellet stoves came onto the scene. As an honest dealer, I always had to correct my customers when they came in and told me a ton of pellets created more heat than a cord of oak wood. Back then I made up the "nuclear pellets" thing.

The technology is being pushed by dealers and manufacturers as being perfected...it is not. The fuel is being pushed by the trade groups and makers as fitting within certain standards...it does not. The pellet supply and price has been pushed as being adequate...it is not. The service and parts backup is pushed by the industry as being good - it is often not.

I could go on, but the fact is that the user experience does not measure up (in many cases) to expectations. Some people don't complain about this stuff...or complain very little. They have enough to work (like work, raise a family, etc.).

But I am glad that Aquidneck brought up these points from a user point of view because it shows that our industry is not nearly "there" yet. A lot of improvement is needed if the industry is not going to simply boom and bust. It's one thing for a DIY expert to be happy with their stove, quite another for Joe and Peggy three-pack to be so....especially after they have invested 3-5K.

welshcob · Nov 12, 2008

But I am glad that Aquidneck brought up these points from a user point of view because it shows that our industry is not nearly “there” yet. A lot of improvement is needed if the industry is not going to simply boom and bust. It’s one thing for a DIY expert to be happy with their stove, quite another for Joe and Peggy three-pack to be so....especially after they have invested 3-5K.

I think you're right about the hype. One thing I have noticed from reading this forum is that in general the most enthusiastic pellet users seem to be the newbies - those of us who shelled out the $3-4k and are busy learning how to run our stoves. Guess we're still in the honeymoon phase. More experienced pellet-people seem much more aware of the limitations (space heating, maintenance etc) Also I think the brand of stove seems to have a powerful impact on the owners' level of satisfaction.

pelletfan · Nov 12, 2008

A lot of the problem, IMHO, seems to be the dealer and the pellets, etc. - in other words, the entire customer experience was lacking

AGREE - That's one of the biggest problems in this particular industry.

Don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of dealers out there which do not have a clue at all what customer service is all about.
Speaking from my own experience!

Further enhanced through the ignorance of some Customers of not knowing what they are getting into it, when buying a Wood Pellet Stove.

When reading in this forum, one can see that a majority of Pellet Stove Users enjoy their product, while others are really scrambling.

When using any kind of Wood burning Stove, one has to take the time to learn/educate yourself what the product is all about.

It starts from the Customer's side goes to the Dealer and then ends again at the Customer when using the Wood/Pellet burning Stove.

gw2kpro · Nov 12, 2008

Man, that is a bad experience out of the gate.

I agree that the pellet stove industry has a long ways to go in the service end of things; many dealers still have the "wood stove" mindset for service and seem baffled by service required for these things. That's why I chose to cut the "dealer" out of my purchase altogether. Yep, I'm completely on my own for service, not unlike many people up here who paid dealer markup.

I'm surprised that when you were researching your stove, you didn't notice the "primitive construction" "cheap metal" and "control unit from the 1970's" apparently inherent with your unit. Were you shown a different model than the one you bought? Whether you are buying a dishwasher, car, TV, or pellet stove you should know what you are getting if you're going to pay thousands fo dollars for it.

I agree that your experience was awful but it isn't common to everyone. I spend about 1 hour total per week on pellet stove cleaning.

Yes, I have to carry my pellets to the stove, I think we all do.

Sifting pellets is optional and IMHO completely unnecessary unless you have family memebers sensitive to dust. SOoe people disagree and prefer to sift, that's their prerogative and they have their own reasons.

bungalobob · Nov 12, 2008

But the big question is, when all is said and done, are you going to stick it out? Or is there a pellet stove for sale in Rhode Island?

aquidneckheat · Nov 12, 2008

Hi guys,

I understand that it seems difficult to believe and I admit I was a bit naive about the whole pellet stove "lifestyle" thing. But honestly, I did a lot of research. The St. Croix looked good when I saw it, but when I started using it I noticed all of the defects. It just seems to be one of these things that until you take it out for a "test ride" you don't know how good the car really is, or if what's under the hood will perform like in the show room.

Also, I am not complaining about having to lift a 40 lb bag of pellets to the stove. I saw that as a small sacrifice. My issue is more with the fact that the pellet stove blows a heck of a lot of ash inside the combustion chamber, and in just 12 hours the amount of ash inside is incredible. I just cleaned my stove again this morning, yep, took me 30 minutes to do so because everything was clogged up with ash and half burned pellets. I read the manual again, just in case I was doing something wrong, and it tells you to adjust the damper if you get too much build up and smoldering pellets. I did that. The stove performed worse. The whole thing is like a 1955 Chevy, a beautiful toy to mess around with and fine tune, but more of a hobby than a real heating system for a home.

As far as the comparisons, my current oil furnace came with the home, so cost for equipment there is zero. Secondly, multiply 2 hours per week for 20 weeks of winter, and you have a full work week of time invested in maintaining the stove. You could earn about $1,000 in that time if you are a contractor. So you have to take that into account as an "ownership cost".

The industry really needs to develop the technology and service better. My recommendations:

1) Improve the unit's control --> Make it smarter and self adjusting so the combustion mixture of air is perfect to the fuel burned.
2) Add an automatic cleaning system to vacuum away the ash and unburned pellets into an easy to dump out receptacle.
3) Don't overpromise - if it can only heat 900 square feet, the only claim that and not more. There should be an independent institute, testing and certifying these pellet stoves and the pellets themselves. (By the way, many of the pellets I have bought say PFI certified, are they lying? Because they were terrible, or else the machine itself is terrible. I just can't tell.
4) Whenever someone buyst a new stove, sign them up for a supply arrangement where high quality pellets are delivered to them on a regular basis. This should be standard, so there are no issues and the customer is happy.

As for me, I have made up my mind to return my stove. I can't tell if the problem is with the stove or with the pellets. As I cannot find good pellets, and apparently this is an ongoing problem with supply, I just won't take the risk of keeping equipment I am unhappy with.

Thanks for all of your feedback. Good luck with your stoves, and I am glad to see that no everyone is as unhappy as me. I hope this thread serves to educated everyone who is a newbie before they purchase a pellet stove so they know what they are getting into and what to look out for.

crausch · Nov 12, 2008

I like your suggestions. It's a shame it worked out this way for you. I agree with you that hopefully this will help other new to this technology. I say the following with the same hopes that other newbies will heed.

My avenue when I was looking for a stove was spend a lot of time doing searches on the internet. Went to several dealers of different stove brands and discussed the stoves with the people. Once purchased, I admit I was not knowledgible at all on the pellets. I just thought they would be like bying gas for car (pretty much the same everywhere). So, I immediately read the scoop on the pages at the PFI, WDPellet.com, read news releases at pellet manufacturers sites, did more industry searches, and I still look all the time for fresh news on pellets, Biomess in general and the industry.

It has become somewhat of a hobby. IMO, the more knowledge I have, the better I'll understand how my stove works, what to expect out of pellet fuels. These are not just plug-n-play units and I was aware of this prior to my purchase. Now that I understand the controls on my stove, and how the whole burning process takes place, the intimidation is gone and maintaining my stove so far seems simple.

They are not for everyone or every situation as it appears that you have realized for your needs. I wish you best no matter how you move forward. The main goal is to be warm in the winter. :coolsmirk:

MCPO · Nov 12, 2008

aquidneckheat said:
Hi guys,

My issue is more with the fact that the pellet stove blows a heck of a lot of ash inside the combustion chamber, and in just 12 hours the amount of ash inside is incredible. I just cleaned my stove again this morning, yep, took me 30 minutes to do so because everything was clogged up with ash and half burned pellets. I read the manual again, just in case I was doing something wrong, and it tells you to adjust the damper if you get too much build up and smoldering pellets. I did that. The stove performed worse. The whole thing is like a 1955 Chevy, a beautiful toy to mess around with and fine tune, but more of a hobby than a real heating system for a home.

As far as the comparisons, my current oil furnace came with the home, so cost for equipment there is zero. Secondly, multiply 2 hours per week for 20 weeks of winter, and you have a full work week of time invested in maintaining the stove. You could earn about $1,000 in that time if you are a contractor. So you have to take that into account as an "ownership cost".

The industry really needs to develop the technology and service better. My recommendations:

1) Improve the unit's control --> Make it smarter and self adjusting so the combustion mixture of air is perfect to the fuel burned.
2) Add an automatic cleaning system to vacuum away the ash and unburned pellets into an easy to dump out receptacle.
3) Don't overpromise - if it can only heat 900 square feet, the only claim that and not more. There should be an independent institute, testing and certifying these pellet stoves and the pellets themselves. (By the way, many of the pellets I have bought say PFI certified, are they lying? Because they were terrible, or else the machine itself is terrible. I just can't tell.
4) Whenever someone buyst a new stove, sign them up for a supply arrangement where high quality pellets are delivered to them on a regular basis. This should be standard, so there are no issues and the customer is happy.

As for me, I have made up my mind to return my stove. I can't tell if the problem is with the stove or with the pellets. As I cannot find good pellets, and apparently this is an ongoing problem with supply, I just won't take the risk of keeping equipment I am unhappy with.

Thanks for all of your feedback. Good luck with your stoves, and I am glad to see that no everyone is as unhappy as me. I hope this thread serves to educated everyone who is a newbie before they purchase a pellet stove so they know what they are getting into and what to look out for.

Wow! You mean you ae going to get a credit or money returned? If so, congrats!
Hey, I agree that pellet burning isn`t all peaches and cream but it seems few things if any went right with your situation.
But with regards to your suggestions, my Harman P38 does in fact automatically regulate the air and pellet ratio for what appears to be excellent combustion across the heat range with minimum ash and glass that stays clean.
I just emptied my 1/3 full ash pan after maybe 13-15 bags . Your self cleaning suggestion is gonna be a rather near impossible one to improve upon though.
Lastly, we are all pretty much at the mercy of the pellet industry for qualityand quantity.
Service is another problem.
Good luck with whatever you end up with.

pelletfan · Nov 12, 2008

The industry really needs to develop the technology and service better. My recommendations:

1) Improve the unit’s control --> Make it smarter and self adjusting so the combustion mixture of air is perfect to the fuel burned.
2) Add an automatic cleaning system to vacuum away the ash and unburned pellets into an easy to dump out receptacle.
3) Don’t over-promise - if it can only heat 900 square feet, the only claim that and not more. There should be an independent institute, testing and certifying these pellet stoves and the pellets themselves. (By the way, many of the pellets I have bought say PFI certified, are they lying? Because they were terrible, or else the machine itself is terrible. I just can’t tell.
4) Whenever someone buyst a new stove, sign them up for a supply arrangement where high quality pellets are delivered to them on a regular basis. This should be standard, so there are no issues and the customer is happy.

Standard feature with European models like Rika and others don't know about others too much.
Cleaning system - it's a case of manufacturers design and users preference one can argue about it.
Over-promised Sales tactics - every one tries to sell to make money - take everything with a grain of Salt
As far as I know almost all Pellet Stoves are tested. What works for you may not work in another home - different layout/construction of home.
With your last point I don't agree at all. Don't want to end up like with my Oil Contract where the AVG Price per Gallon is .90Cents higher than market price.
I you like it, that is your personal choice or convenience.

But I still accept your opinion/facts, as I almost bought the same stove and walked away from it. Had a real bad sales experience.
I mentioned this in one of my posts on this board.

cac4 · Nov 12, 2008

aquidneckheat said:
Hi guys,

I understand that it seems difficult to believe and I admit I was a bit naive about the whole pellet stove "lifestyle" thing. But honestly, I did a lot of research.

apparently, not enough.

aquidneckheat said:
... My recommendations:

1) Improve the unit's control --> Make it smarter and self adjusting so the combustion mixture of air is perfect to the fuel burned.

Harman does that

aquidneckheat said:
2) Add an automatic cleaning system to vacuum away the ash and unburned pellets into an easy to dump out receptacle.

again...harman

aquidneckheat said:
3) Don't overpromise - if it can only heat 900 square feet, the only claim that and not more.

no square footage claim can be anything other than a wild-assed guess, without considering your particular house and its characteristics.

but honestly, on this last issue, it doesn't sound to me like your stove is operating properly, at all. yeah, some stoves need more fussing than others, but your description of your situation sounds way over the top. It shouldn't be that way, unless the stove is broken, or you've got some seriously crappy pellets. Both of those things can be corrected. But...

aquidneckheat said:
As for me, I have made up my mind to return my stove. I can't tell if the problem is with the stove or with the pellets. As I cannot find good pellets, and apparently this is an ongoing problem with supply, I just won't take the risk of keeping equipment I am unhappy with.

Guess we'll never find out, then.

Seems to me that you're too impetuous for this. You leaped in too fast, and bought a stove that wouldn't likely meet your needs. That might not be so bad, if we could get it to at least work properly...you adjusted the damper a little, and that didn't help, so now its going back. Can't find any pellets. Why not? I did. not exactly what I wanted...exactly when I wanted them. And I paid a high price for them, but I got 'em. 3 different kinds. They're out there. NEXT YEAR, I'll get exactly what I want, for cheap-cheap, now that I'm "in the loop". Not tomorrow, though. And not next week. Oh, and it looks now like I'm not going to be saving "all that money", either. Oil prices have come down. I knew that could happen. So it'll take a little longer to pay for itself. It will. This is a long term endeavor. The short supply of pellets is not.

MCPO · Nov 12, 2008

[q

Seems to me that you're too impetuous for this. You leaped in too fast, and bought a stove that wouldn't likely meet your needs. That might not be so bad, if we could get it to at least work properly...you adjusted the damper a little, and that didn't help, so now its going back. Can't find any pellets. Why not? I did. not exactly what I wanted...exactly when I wanted them. And I paid a high price for them, but I got 'em. 3 different kinds. They're out there. NEXT YEAR, I'll get exactly what I want, for cheap-cheap, now that I'm "in the loop". Not tomorrow, though. And not next week. Oh, and it looks now like I'm not going to be saving "all that money", either. Oil prices have come down. I knew that could happen. So it'll take a little longer to pay for itself. It will. This is a long term endeavor. The short supply of pellets is not.[/quote]

Chuck,
None of us know for sure if this pellet shortage is temporary or not any more than we know what the price will be next year.
We can hope but that`s all.
The increase in pellet useage for all the additional new stoves put into service this past year coupled with the short supply of cheap wood by products could keep the price of pellets high even in a declining economy due to the demand .

Pellet Stoves - NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE?

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