glazed creosote

LONDONDERRY · Nov 10, 2008

I have a Napolane Insert, with a partial installed linear in the fireplace which I've been using since October. So yesterday I go on the roof, and took off the chimney cap and looked down and saw the flue tiles covered in a black glazed creosote (stage 1 from what I've read). I swept out the chimney but there was no build up. In fact the brushes did nothing to remove the glazing. Its not thick, as I can scratch it off with my fingernail to see the tile underneath. So after I saw this I thought I read somewhere on this site that this is a bad sign. So I went out and bought one of those expensive cleaning logs. Before I used it I ran the stove hot to 550-600 and then after the wood burnt out and the temp went down to 450 I placed the log on top.
So a few questions if I might
1. Is the glazed creosote normal. I know creosote is and will form but I have not used this stove everyday for the last month or so.
2. If this is not normal what is my solution to clean out the glazed creosote? Or if I fully line the chimney will this prevent it. BTW my flue tile size is 6-1/4 x 9-1/2

Frank

Adios Pantalones · Nov 10, 2008

It doesn't sound like enough to worry about. It builds up a bit more early season when you don't have extended hot fires burning.

The log is supposed to make creosote more flakey so that it sweeps easier, but I would just keep burning if your wood is dry.

LONDONDERRY · Nov 11, 2008

So last night a paid a visit to the local hardward store and purchased a liquid that is supposed to be sprayed on the inner walls of the stove insert and the wood. I also purchased a 2lb tub of granulated mix that cuts down on the creosote buildup. In addition I dropped by a local stove shop and explained my situation and basically they said I need to run the stove at 500-600 F. This being my first time using a wood stove, I'm a bit intimiated about buring too hot, and keep the temp at 350-400 tops; which the stove shop said is way to low and will promote the glazed creosote. So last night I borrowed from my work a temp. meter with a thermocouple and ran it to 550-575 and sprayed each piece of wood with that mystery liquid and added the granulated "stuff". It seems that "stuff" is 38% TSP, which is intersting. I also noted that I'm paying too much attention to the Rutland magnetic thermeter. In comparison with the meter its( magnetic thermo.) reading 50-75 degrees hotter than what thermocpuple is saying. Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks
Frank

Brian VT · Nov 11, 2008

My Rutland reads 50-100 hotter too. Let her rip.
Watch what's coming out of your chimney. It should be clear (no smoke, except with a fresh load).

Jags · Nov 11, 2008

Your stove shop is leading you in the proper direction. 350-400F being the hottest that you run is not enough. At least once per burning day you should obtain the temps that the stove shop suggested. This will have a tendency to "clean" out the system a little. Easy on the tigers milk also. Some of that stuff does works, but I wouldn't get crazy with it either.

LONDONDERRY · Nov 11, 2008

Jags said:
Your stove shop is leading you in the proper direction. 350-400F being the hottest that you run is not enough. At least once per burning day you should obtain the temps that the stove shop suggested. This will have a tendency to "clean" out the system a little. Easy on the tigers milk also. Some of that stuff does works, but I wouldn't get crazy with it either.

When I got on my roof and looked down everything was glazed over, so this week I want to use the powder and spray to loosen up the glazing to sweep it down. Afterwards, I'll just use it once or twice a week. I guess I'm just a bit nervous and plus a neighbor down the street had a chimney fire last year, that I saw. Not a pretty scene. Any how thank for the tips

Jags · Nov 11, 2008

LONDONDERRY said:
Jags said:

Your stove shop is leading you in the proper direction. 350-400F being the hottest that you run is not enough. At least once per burning day you should obtain the temps that the stove shop suggested. This will have a tendency to "clean" out the system a little. Easy on the tigers milk also. Some of that stuff does works, but I wouldn't get crazy with it either.

Click to expand...

When I got on my roof and looked down everything was glazed over, so this week I want to use the powder and spray to loosen up the glazing to sweep it down. Afterwards, I'll just use it once or twice a week. I guess I'm just a bit nervous and plus a neighbor down the street had a chimney fire last year, that I saw. Not a pretty scene. Any how thank for the tips

I understand your concerns, but you stated above that is was a very thin layer that could be scraped off (I assume with a fingernail or something). This is not the highly flammable stuff that is dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its good either, but at that thickness, you probably have NO chance of it starting on fire. Just not enough fuel there.

Your burning methods so far are more than likely your culprit. With those corrected, your creosote issues may disappear by themselves. Taking a little precautionary measures (like you plan) will help, but you may be fighting a battle that doesn't have to be fought. Be one with your stove.....Uuuummmmmm. ;-)

ansehnlich1 · Nov 11, 2008

ok, here's my story.

outside brick 2 foot square chimney with a 7x7 inch inside diameter rectangular clay flue running about 22 feet up.

was on roof one day last year and OMG, glazed creosote, panic!

haha, well, I got a couple good ole chimney sweeps that I know, they come over, crawl up there, and tell me to keep doin' what I'm doin' and call em in the summer to sweep it.

top tile or two, shiny stuff, thin, no problem.

these guys told me they've done chimney's that they couldn't even get a brush down through 'em.

get a good million candlepower light and shine down there, see if the stuff further down is crispy black and/or grey.

also, BURN HOT ONCE A DAY AT LEAST....600 to 650 degrees for 15 or 20 minutes!

LONDONDERRY · Nov 11, 2008

I understand your concerns, but you stated above that is was a very thin layer that could be scraped off (I assume with a fingernail or something). This is not the highly flammable stuff that is dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its good either, but at that thickness, you probably have NO chance of it starting on fire. Just not enough fuel there.

Your burning methods so far are more than likely your culprit. With those corrected, your creosote issues may disappear by themselves. Taking a little precautionary measures (like you plan) will help, but you may be fighting a battle that doesn't have to be fought. Be one with your stove.....Uuuummmmmm. ;-)[/quote]

Thanks. Like I mentioned before and agree with you I was burn way to low. The main reason was I was paying to much attention to the Overfiring and Cresote ranges on magnetic thermometer. Another big issue sort of related is the house gets to cooking hot, though the weather outside is not as cold. For example last night it was 80 degrees and it makes we want to place the a/c back in the window

Jags · Nov 11, 2008

LONDONDERRY said:
Thanks. Like I mentioned before and agree with you I was burn way to low. The main reason was I was paying to much attention to the Overfiring and Cresote ranges on magnetic thermometer. Another big issue sort of related is the house gets to cooking hot, though the weather outside is not as cold. For example last night it was 80 degrees and it makes we want to place the a/c back in the window

Yeah, that comes into play as well. Thats where mastering small, hot, quick burning fires come into play. Warm up the stove and house and let it coast back down with the small load of coals. Shoulder season is pretty much the toughest time to be a wood burner. I go through many times the kindling during the shoulder season than I do during the REAL heating season.

firefighterjake · Nov 13, 2008

LONDONDERRY said:
Jags said:

Your stove shop is leading you in the proper direction. 350-400F being the hottest that you run is not enough. At least once per burning day you should obtain the temps that the stove shop suggested. This will have a tendency to "clean" out the system a little. Easy on the tigers milk also. Some of that stuff does works, but I wouldn't get crazy with it either.

Click to expand...

When I got on my roof and looked down everything was glazed over, so this week I want to use the powder and spray to loosen up the glazing to sweep it down. Afterwards, I'll just use it once or twice a week. I guess I'm just a bit nervous and plus a neighbor down the street had a chimney fire last year, that I saw. Not a pretty scene. Any how thank for the tips

I'm not saying that you shouldn't worry about checking and cleaning your chimney on a regular basis . . . but trust me on this one . . . most of the chimney fires that I have personally responded to were not started by a thin layer of creosote build-up on the interior . . . as ansehnlich1 mentioned most of these fires were in chimneys totally blocked by creosote . . . sometimes so bad that we have had to use steel weights on a chain to break through the layer.

So what I'm trying to say is that checking and cleaning a chimney is a good habit to get into . . . a general rule of thumb is to clean it out when there is a quarter inch or so of creosote build-up . . . or do as I am doing (being the anal retentive type) and check/clean it every month.

As for the super hi-winder chemicals and magic pixie dust solutions . . . I'm not completely sold on them myself . . . they may work . . . but I'm thinking the best long-term solution and easiest solution is to burn seasoned wood and use the stove in the manner it was designed to work.

BrotherBart · Nov 13, 2008

With clay tile chimneys like yours the sprays like Anti-Creo-Sote do work to break down the glaze creosote so that it can be swept out of the chimney. Used it for over twenty years with the old insert for exactly that purpose. The best thing to do in the long run is put in the full length liner but for now the stuff does work when used as directed.

I wouldn't use the chemicals with a stainless full length liner just because I think the jury is still out on whether it corrodes them or not.

Brian VT · Nov 13, 2008

My Simpson Duratech manual says not to use chemicals.

LONDONDERRY · Nov 14, 2008

BrotherBart said:
With clay tile chimneys like yours the sprays like Anti-Creo-Sote do work to break down the glaze creosote so that it can be swept out of the chimney. Used it for over twenty years with the old insert for exactly that purpose. The best thing to do in the long run is put in the full length liner but for now the stuff does work when used as directed.

I wouldn't use the chemicals with a stainless full length liner just because I think the jury is still out on whether it corrodes them or not.

If you know what the ingredients in ACS, I can ask some of the chemist at my company if its corrosive or not. Is the stuff in ACS the same as whats in the Imperial brand name?

BrotherBart · Nov 14, 2008

LONDONDERRY said:
If you know what the ingredients in ACS, I can ask some of the chemist at my company if its corrosive or not. Is the stuff in ACS the same as whats in the Imperial brand name?

None of them give their recipe but TSP appears to be a major ingredient in all of them.

colebrookman · Nov 14, 2008

firefighterjake said:
LONDONDERRY said:

Jags said:

Your stove shop is leading you in the proper direction. 350-400F being the hottest that you run is not enough. At least once per burning day you should obtain the temps that the stove shop suggested. This will have a tendency to "clean" out the system a little. Easy on the tigers milk also. Some of that stuff does works, but I wouldn't get crazy with it either.

Click to expand...

When I got on my roof and looked down everything was glazed over, so this week I want to use the powder and spray to loosen up the glazing to sweep it down. Afterwards, I'll just use it once or twice a week. I guess I'm just a bit nervous and plus a neighbor down the street had a chimney fire last year, that I saw. Not a pretty scene. Any how thank for the tips

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that you shouldn't worry about checking and cleaning your chimney on a regular basis . . . but trust me on this one . . . most of the chimney fires that I have personally responded to were not started by a thin layer of creosote build-up on the interior . . . as ansehnlich1 mentioned most of these fires were in chimneys totally blocked by creosote . . . sometimes so bad that we have had to use steel weights on a chain to break through the layer.

So what I'm trying to say is that checking and cleaning a chimney is a good habit to get into . . . a general rule of thumb is to clean it out when there is a quarter inch or so of creosote build-up . . . or do as I am doing (being the anal retentive type) and check/clean it every month.

As for the super hi-winder chemicals and magic pixie dust solutions . . . I'm not completely sold on them myself . . . they may work . . . but I'm thinking the best long-term solution and easiest solution is to burn seasoned wood and use the stove in the manner it was designed to work.

We had a chimney fire recently because the homeowner would leave for work and close the draft for fear of over firing. My dept. uses the old large torpedo window weights on a chain and we could barely bust through the creosote. Owners said it was cleaned last Feb. The fire cracked the tile and cement block and they need a whole new chimney because it was so hot. Burn hot at least once a day and check your chimney often until you're comfortable with your burning practices. Be safe.
Ed

Rob From Wisconsin · Nov 14, 2008

I'm so glad that a thread has been generated about this, and I don't have to start one !!!

We have a flue w/ a corrugated liner going up through the center of our house.
Well, I finally made it up to the roof to remove the cap & inspect the very top
of our chimney. I was surprised to find a moderate layer of very hard & glazed "stuff"
lining the upper couple of feet of our flue. Beneath that, it was like "night & day" - the
flue was surpisingly clean - very little build-up. Fearing that the build-up is creosote, I
proceeded to spray creosote sprays directly on the build-up, along w/ spraying liberally
on my wood loads. Did this for a week. I went back up on the roof w/ my brush in hand,
ready to attack what I believe would we much easier to remove..........

MY MISTAKE !!!

!

The consistency hadn't changed even a little.....hard like cement !!!

My brush wouldn't even put a dent in it.

I'm beginning to wonder if it even is creosote, or something "sprayed" on the upper feet of my liner.
Maybe I'm "all wet" on my theory & more work needs to be done (use a jackhammer).

colebrookman · Nov 14, 2008

Top couple of feet run the coldest, hence creosote. Not the end of the world but good to keep it to a minimum. Maybe try scratching horizontal lines in the creosote before spraying. Let it soak in then a hot fire should help. Others may have ideas, my chimney has a flue tile and runs great without a cap. Be safe.
Ed

Todd · Nov 14, 2008

LONDONDERRY said:
The main reason was I was paying to much attention to the Overfiring and Cresote ranges on magnetic thermometer.

These thermometers are designed to be read on a single wall stove pipe not stove tops. 500-700 on a stove top is just fine, but the same temps on a stove pipe is too hot. The surface temp of single wall pipe is double internally. I like to monitor both.

LONDONDERRY · Nov 18, 2008

Todd said:
LONDONDERRY said:

The main reason was I was paying to much attention to the Overfiring and Cresote ranges on magnetic thermometer.

Click to expand...

These thermometers are designed to be read on a single wall stove pipe not stove tops. 500-700 on a stove top is just fine, but the same temps on a stove pipe is too hot. The surface temp of single wall pipe is double internally. I like to monitor both.

Thats why I'm now using a temp meter with a thermocouple, much more acurrate than that dumb bi-metal gage. Last night we go the top surface of the insert above 550f. I realize the pipe will be hotter, but I haven't had a chance to place the 2nd thermocouple to the pipe because it to hot to properly mount it.

glazed creosote

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