True Cost Of Burning Pellets

woodsman23 · Nov 21, 2008

Afton bay st croix= 1600 (on sale almost half off)
pipe= 155.00
hearth= made my own 60.00
pellets 199.00x 4 tons dry creek= 800.00
shed, had one
programmable thermo= 30.00
shop vac, had one
Aggravation to do it all myself -zero, took 1 hr.
i am warmer

swalz · Nov 21, 2008

My stove replaced a very old propane stove that died. I like having the stove and needed something to fill the hole in the ceiling so I went with the pellet stove.

Stove cost $2782
install $425
Vent pipe around $290 did not need thimble or flashing
one Ton of pellets from shop $259 to get started
3 Tons from Pelletsales just under $600 delivered
Shed already had 16x34 holds a lot of pellets, just afraid that it might start to tilt to one side.

total around $3497 for stove and install and $859 for pellets.
Installed December 18th of 2007

kinsmanstoves · Nov 21, 2008

From what my last year customers told me that the money they saved on LP or NG saved enought to pay for the stove their first year. The second year they intend to use the savings to pay for the first and second years pellets. Sounds good to me. LP just delivered was $2.89 a gallon plus sur charge. The breaker on the furnace is shut off and we use LP for hot water. Should last all winter on the one tank.

Eric

Pellet1 · Nov 21, 2008

Enviro EF III Bayi(used)-------$1000
Pipe----------------------------included
Hearth-------------------------included
Installation--------------------self done
WETT Certification-----------------free
Four tons of pellets--------------$1100

Total------------------------------$2100

I was figuring on oil being $1.20 per liter this winter and I would have burned 2700 liters or $3240 worth. Even with the new lower price, I should have only a one year payback. I hope. But, I will now run my oil furnace just to keep the upper floor a bit warmer when necessary. I also recently picked up a really nice modern oil boiler furnace off a guy who went with a heat pump. Got the whole furnace(ready to plug in) for under $500. Of course I did the install myself. Oh, I forgot, I sold my old 35 year old furnace for $200. Now, if my mutual funds would only come back.

cms0553 · Nov 21, 2008

Breckwell P-22 1200.00
vent pipe 250.00
paint for pipe 10.00
3 tons pellets delivered & stacked 705.00 thanks Eric
tile for hearth pad 20.00 on sale at HD
plywood, durarock & oak trim 4 pad 0.00 leftovers from bathroom remodel
programable thermostat 22.00 on sale at HD
drywall filter for old shop vac 10.00 for 2 pack
instalation 0.00 did it myself, i'm cheap or poor you make that call
total 2217.00
last years propane bill 2200.00 for 850 gallons before this years increase
satisfaction from doing it myself a lot
having a choice going forward PRICELESS

staplebox · Nov 21, 2008

You can call me cheap, although if you don't spend money that you don't have I think that is just being poor.

Brand new Englander (1/2 price at Lowes last winter) - $636 with tax
Simpson vent kit (also 1/2 price last winter) - $106
+ 3ft piece ?? $18 (also 1/2 price)
+ 45 elbow $35 - they got me at a different store.
Hearth pad ~$50 - made myself
Install - $20- caulk, RTV, silicone tape etc.
Shiny serving spoon ash scoop - $0 stole from wife
Ash Vac - $0 - won at Yankee swap X-mas party (not real ash vac but it sucks)
2 Tons pellets - $600 (in addition to being cheap I also procrastinate) Hope the price comes down.

I'm also lazy so I won't total the above but - whatever it is you've then got to subtract the time I saved cutting, splitting and stacking less firewood for the wood stove. I then used that time being lazy and procrastinating on other projects so the time is extra valuable.

sydney1963 · Nov 21, 2008

Stove-------------------------------------------------------------- $1400 approx.
Vent Pipe---------------------------------------------------------- $239
Hearth pad (made it myself)------------------------------------ $60
Pellets (includes delivery fee $235 a ton x3)--------------- $764
Self Install ------------------------------------------------------- $0
Ash vac (simple shop vac with dry wall dust filter) -------- $50
Thermostat (could have done without it) --------------------- $60
Fines vac --------------------------------------------------------- $20
Recipricating Saw ----------------------------------------------- $90
---------------------------------------------------------- Total $4322

If I had bought oil for the winter at $2.50 per gallon -- $1750

--------------------------------------------------In The Hole --$2572

Still Love The Feel of Pellet Heat "Priceless"

newpelletstove · Nov 21, 2008

I have a couple of comments.

____________________________________________

FIRST, everyone here seems to be totalling the cost of a year's pellets with the cost of the stove/install/etc. But pellets are a consumable item, and the other things are one-time costs.

The way to figure out payback is to take the SAVINGS per year (heating with oil minus heating with pellets), divided into total ONE TIME costs (stove, pipe, hearth pads, install, etc.).

For example with me, and using the prices at the time I bought my stove:

SAVINGS: Was using 700 gallons/year of oil at $3.57 = $2500, minus about $1700 for pellets, for a savings of $800.

ONE TIME: I paid about $5,500 (I know - it's high).

So my PAYBACK time is about 8 years ($5,500/$800 is about 8).

____________________________________________

And SECOND, I think Sawduster's cost for a shed made a big difference in his situation. Fortunately, I am able to use my basement.

krooser · Nov 21, 2008

Last year my pellet stove heated my house from November until April for just over $600.00. I paid $1050.00 for my stove (used with one year warranty) and $150.00 for the vent pipe kit. Free installation by me.

My normal heating bill for natural gas in January and February is over $350.00 per month @ 65 degrees. My total gas bill in 2006 for the heating season was over $1200.00 (before pellet heating).

My October, 08 gas bill was just over $10.00.

Tonite, it's 14 deg. outside and 78 inside my kitchen, 74 in the living room and 68 in the bedrooms.... and I'm toasty and happy.

davevassar · Nov 21, 2008

Warmth and comfort are priceless to me. Without my pellet stove, my house would be 68-69 degrees inside. With my pellet stove it's 70-74.

alexdrozd · Nov 21, 2008

newpelletstove guy, refigure your savings with the price of oil each year. I can get oil now for 2.20. At 700 gallons that would be a total of $1,540 for your oil. Payback time is very different now. It just goes to show you have to figure how much you save each year based on that years pricing for both oil and pellets. There is no way to figure out your payback period in the future. It is all based on assumptions and this year the assumptions got reversed.

newpelletstove · Nov 21, 2008

ssman said:
newpelletstove guy, refigure your savings with the price of oil each year. I can get oil now for 2.20. At 700 gallons that would be a total of $1,540 for your oil. Payback time is very different now. It just goes to show you have to figure how much you save each year based on that years pricing for both oil and pellets. There is no way to figure out your payback period in the future. It is all based on assumptions and this year the assumptions got reversed.

ssman, yes that is correct. I was trying to show the right way to figure payback, and for my example I used numbers for when I bought my stove. You are absolutely right, the numbers change every time the price of either oil or pellets change. My point is that folks are confusing CONSUMABLE costs with ONE-TIME costs. We cannot guarantee payback calculations, because they are indeed based on assumptions. However they are still useful calculations one makes when making an investment, using the best information available at the time.

ROI (Return on Investment) means Return (SAVINGS on consumable costs, like oil minus pellets) divided by Investment (the ONE-TIME costs of installation), times 100 percent. So my savings at the time divided by my one-time cost was $800/$5500 x 100% = about 12%. (whoops - about 14.5%)

I was showing concept of calculation, not trying to guarantee payback.

BTW, my oil is 2.79. My pellets are still a tad cheaper than oil on a Btu basis, but not tremendously, at the moment.

lucky13 · Nov 21, 2008

Used Whitfield---------500.00

2 tons pellets----------500.00

Selkirk venting--------120.00

pad---------------------40.00

old fashioned cast iron tea kettle for top of stove---11.99

The warm cozy feeling that it gives the house------priceless

hossthehermit · Nov 21, 2008

newpelletstove said:
ssman said:

newpelletstove guy, refigure your savings with the price of oil each year. I can get oil now for 2.20. At 700 gallons that would be a total of $1,540 for your oil. Payback time is very different now. It just goes to show you have to figure how much you save each year based on that years pricing for both oil and pellets. There is no way to figure out your payback period in the future. It is all based on assumptions and this year the assumptions got reversed.

Click to expand...

ssman, yes that is correct. I was trying to show the right way to figure payback, and for my example I used numbers for when I bought my stove. You are absolutely right, the numbers change every time the price of either oil or pellets change. My point is that folks are confusing CONSUMABLE costs with ONE-TIME costs. We cannot guarantee payback calculations, because they are indeed based on assumptions. However they are still useful calculations one makes when making an investment, using the best information available at the time.

ROI (Return on Investment) means Return (SAVINGS on consumable costs, like oil minus pellets) divided by Investment (the ONE-TIME costs of installation), times 100 percent. So my savings at the time divided by my one-time cost was $800/$5500 x 100% = about 12%. (whoops - about 14.5%)

I was showing concept of calculation, not trying to guarantee payback.

BTW, my oil is 2.79. My pellets are still a tad cheaper than oil on a Btu basis, but not tremendously, at the moment.

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

newpelletstove · Nov 21, 2008

hossthehermit said:
We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

billybono · Nov 21, 2008

first post

we bought our first house in august 08. came with a englander pvdc and a 1970 international gas furnace that was the size of my fishrite drift boat. thought we could do like the previous owners obviously did, and limp by with the furnace as a secondary, and the pellet stove as the primary.

not this kid

2 tons of pellets- 520 bucks
a new hiel mid efficency gas furnace installed by me on a saturday 550 bucks(cost. job perk)
case of beer to install said furnace 16.99

not having to depend on a pellet stove that i always have to tweak, clean, troubleshoot, fill, and try to move heat around priceless

i do like the stove. i run it when we are home at night, and if we are home on the weekends. and ive enjoyed it comming in after a day of rowing for steelhead in november, and look forward to comming in to it after a day of ice fishing

but would i ever depend on it , or try to use it as a money saving investment

not a chance

thanks for reading

billybono

firewarrior820 · Nov 21, 2008

:ahhh: doesn't gas explode

billybono · Nov 22, 2008

xpellet freakx said:
:ahhh: doesn't gas explode

alone no, in a mixture of oxygen sure.

5 pound natural gas doesnt scare me. id be lying if i told you the 2200 pound main steam lines at some of the power plants i work at didnt

the gas line was a 10 minute job with a portaband, threader , 3 foot of pipe, and a few fittings

its the ductwork that was the pita!

that furnace sure is reliable, though.

free standing pellet stoves were never meant to be primary sources of heat. its 2008

billybono

hossthehermit · Nov 22, 2008

newpelletstove said:
hossthehermit said:

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

Click to expand...

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

As I said, don't take it personal, just sounds like the same old snake oil salesman
"I was trying to show the RIGHT way to figure payback"
I've heard it from salesmen, preachers, politicians,doctors, "Let me show you the TRUE PATH to enlightenment". Do it your way, I'll do it mine.

newpelletstove · Nov 22, 2008

hossthehermit said:
newpelletstove said:

hossthehermit said:

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

Click to expand...

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

Click to expand...

As I said, don't take it personal, just sounds like the same old snake oil salesman
"I was trying to show the RIGHT way to figure payback"
I've heard it from salesmen, preachers, politicians,doctors, "Let me show you the TRUE PATH to enlightenment". Do it your way, I'll do it mine.

Wow, okay hoss, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.

I think I see why I did so well in school and have always held a nice-paying job. I use my mind to try to understand things, and listen when other people have ideas that might help me. Don't take this personally either, but it sounds like rather than looking at whether what I said was correct, you reacted to the fact that I said it was the right way to do it. Lots of folks don't understand financial calculations, so I was trying to help. Helping each other is why we have this forum. If we're all going to do things our own ways, we might as well not have a forum (?)

It seems like so many folks on this forum often respond negatively to each other. I hope we can get better about that.

billybono · Nov 22, 2008

hossthehermit said:
newpelletstove said:

hossthehermit said:

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

Click to expand...

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

Click to expand...

As I said, don't take it personal, just sounds like the same old snake oil salesman
"I was trying to show the RIGHT way to figure payback"
I've heard it from salesmen, preachers, politicians,doctors, "Let me show you the TRUE PATH to enlightenment". Do it your way, I'll do it mine.

i agree with your math. hey some people in this country though it was ok to make 30 grand a year, and buy a 200k home

that doesnt make sense to me either

newpelletstove · Nov 22, 2008

billybono said:
hey some people in this country though it was ok to make 30 grand a year, and buy a 200k home

that doesnt make sense to me either

Yeah that doesn't make sense. Fortunately when I bought a house I knew how to buy within my means.

hossthehermit · Nov 22, 2008

newpelletstove said:
hossthehermit said:

newpelletstove said:

hossthehermit said:

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

Click to expand...

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

Click to expand...

As I said, don't take it personal, just sounds like the same old snake oil salesman
"I was trying to show the RIGHT way to figure payback"
I've heard it from salesmen, preachers, politicians,doctors, "Let me show you the TRUE PATH to enlightenment". Do it your way, I'll do it mine.

Click to expand...

Wow, okay hoss, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.

I think I see why I did so well in school and have always held a nice-paying job. I use my mind to try to understand things, and listen when other people have ideas that might help me. Don't take this personally either, but it sounds like rather than looking at whether what I said was correct, you reacted to the fact that I said it was the right way to do it. Lots of folks don't understand financial calculations, so I was trying to help. Helping each other is why we have this forum. If we're all going to do things our own ways, we might as well not have a forum (?

It seems like so many folks on this forum often respond negatively to each other. I hope we can get better about that.[/quo

Guess you're just better than me (hossthehermit hangs his his head in shame and crawls away to a dark dank dungeon with no heat)

yoscratch · Nov 22, 2008

I agree with the way newpellet figures it. I am too lazy to look up all the numbers but my alternative is to heat with propane. this cost me about $2000 for the winter roughly. 4 tons of pellets cost me $920. I was burning corn 50/50 when it was $2.00 a bushel but its a hassle and in the high $3's now (its more of a hassle than its worth). my payback is about 4 yrs. I still use a setback thermostat and run it kinda cool in my house. but it is winter so deal with it. put on a flannel shirt or sweater or sweatshirt. It encourages my wife to cuddle up with me too so that is a bonus.

newpelletstove · Nov 22, 2008

hossthehermit said:
newpelletstove said:

hossthehermit said:

newpelletstove said:

hossthehermit said:

We're some lucky to have somebody smart to explain the right way to do this. Kinda like all them fellers down there on Wall Street explaining why the taxpayers need to give them some more money, 'cause they did so well with all that we already gave 'em. Nothing personal, newpelletstove, just my opinion

Click to expand...

I don't get it, hoss. How is my explanation anything like Wall Street fellers ?

Click to expand...

As I said, don't take it personal, just sounds like the same old snake oil salesman
"I was trying to show the RIGHT way to figure payback"
I've heard it from salesmen, preachers, politicians,doctors, "Let me show you the TRUE PATH to enlightenment". Do it your way, I'll do it mine.

Click to expand...

Wow, okay hoss, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.

I think I see why I did so well in school and have always held a nice-paying job. I use my mind to try to understand things, and listen when other people have ideas that might help me. Don't take this personally either, but it sounds like rather than looking at whether what I said was correct, you reacted to the fact that I said it was the right way to do it. Lots of folks don't understand financial calculations, so I was trying to help. Helping each other is why we have this forum. If we're all going to do things our own ways, we might as well not have a forum (?)

It seems like so many folks on this forum often respond negatively to each other. I hope we can get better about that.[/quote

Seems that in your first post, you were heating your entire 3000+ sq. ft. with the Harman. Later post indicates that it's only tied into ducts on the first floor, and it's an even heat because the gas (oil) furnace constantly cycles on and off. Glad to hear that you were a star pupil, and that you're rich, but that does not mean that you are RIGHT, and when "financial calculations" involve the factors of "Will I buy food, OR fill my prescriptions, OR buy heat this month" it becomes an entirely different world than the one that you live in (today). Enjoy it while you can.

Click to expand...

hoss, you must have gotten me confused with someone else - I don't have 3000 sq ft, and am not tied into ducts, etc. Please take another look.

I said "right way" only when another poster seemed to misunderstand what I was saying - I was trying to show how to calculate ROI. I said "right" to clarify my post. My first post didn't say that. It could be that because I pay attention to things like how to calculate finances, and listen to others who might be able to help, that I CAN afford food and the other things I need. As a friend, let me say that we can all use some help sometimes.

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