newbie pellet stove install questions

sheranjem · Nov 29, 2008

Hey guys, I'm a first time pellet stove owner and we are trying to install our Harman P61A and I had a few small questions, if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
1. Is the vent pipe supposed to be practically up against the back of the stove? We did a mock-up of our vent pipe and you put the collar and then the T piece and the pipe runs up like right next to the stove, is this ok or are we supposed to add another peice to move it out farther?
2. Anyone know about the pellet vent pipe being near our copper water pipes? Do they need to be a specific amount of space apart or are they ok in close proximity?
3. I know you are supposed to use a few elbows as possible but the guy who delivered our stove said if you use more than 2 90 degree elbows you void your warranty, I don't see anything like that in the manual, just to use as few as possible, I can't see us using less than 3 since he said that the T piece counts as well, would prefer to use 4 but could do it with 3 but I don't want to void the warranty.
4. We were given an 'adjustable' piece of vent pipe, I get that you just slide the pipe into the adjustable pice to your desired length but what about using the silicone with these pieces? Just put the silicone inside the adjustable piece? Or is there a better way to connect these two pices?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, we'd like to get this thing up and running ASAP. Thank you so much in advance, our oil bill thanks you too!

sydney1963 · Nov 29, 2008

Hi, here is what mine looks like and a link that describes how much vent pipe you can use and still have your stove work properly. My vent setup adds up to 17 and still seems to work ok but I wouldn't go any higher than that.

You put the silicone on the outside of where the vent pipe twists together. And around the exhaust pipe and adaptor.

http://www.nevelsstoves.com/articles/Venting-your-pellet-stove.htm

First let us understand what we can not do as to the location for the termination of the vent pipe. If your planned termination location falls at any of the below described location, it is critical to select an alternative location. Do not compromise as the safety of your family and others will be at risk. 1. Less then 3 feet above any forced air inlet located within 10 feet 2. Less then 4 feet below or horizontally from, or 1 foot above, any door, window or gravity air inlet into any building. 3. Less then 2 feet from an adjacent building and less than 7 feet above grade when located adjacent next to a public walk way. Mobil home installations must use a spark arrester. 4. Termination should not be located where it might ignite trees, shrubs, dry grasses or be a hazard to children as exhaust gases can reach 500 degrees and cause serious burns if touched. 5. Do not install vent pipe into chimneys shared by other appliances, as you can get a back draft and causing the exhaust from one to the other appliances to come back into the home through the other appliance.

Pellet stoves have to push the exhaust air through the vent pipe with the stove's exhaust fan. With less restriction your pellet stove will breathe easier and burn more efficiently. First let's clarify the word restriction. Restrictions come from several different items.

45 degree elbows
90 degree elbows
Horizontal distance
Vertical distance
Elevation where you live.

A rule of thumb equation we are using has been adopted by most pellet manufactures. The equation is called the sum of Equivalent Vent Length (EVL). All of the above mentioned venting restrictions have been assigned EVL values as follows:

Each 45 degree elbow = 3 EVL
Each 90 degree elbow and Tees with cleanout = 5 EVL
Each foot of horizontal run = 1 EVL
Each foot of Vertical run = 0.5 EVL
Elevations above 3000 ft with an EVL of 7 must adapt to 4 inch vent pipe.

If your installation is below 3000ft, we would need to do some math. The rule of thumb equations is that if the sum of the EVL is 15 or greater, then the pellet vent pipe would be increased to 4 inch diameter pellet vent pipe.

kbd627 · Nov 29, 2008

sydney1963 said:
Hi, here is what mine looks like and a link that describes how much vent pipe you can use and still have your stove work properly. My vent setup adds up to 17 and still seems to work ok but I wouldn't go any higher than that.

You put the silicone on the outside of where the vent pipe twists together. And around the exhaust pipe and adaptor.

http://www.nevelsstoves.com/articles/Venting-your-pellet-stove.htm

First let us understand what we can not do as to the location for the termination of the vent pipe. If your planned termination location falls at any of the below described location, it is critical to select an alternative location. Do not compromise as the safety of your family and others will be at risk. 1. Less then 3 feet above any forced air inlet located within 10 feet 2. Less then 4 feet below or horizontally from, or 1 foot above, any door, window or gravity air inlet into any building. 3. Less then 2 feet from an adjacent building and less than 7 feet above grade when located adjacent next to a public walk way. Mobil home installations must use a spark arrester. 4. Termination should not be located where it might ignite trees, shrubs, dry grasses or be a hazard to children as exhaust gases can reach 500 degrees and cause serious burns if touched. 5. Do not install vent pipe into chimneys shared by other appliances, as you can get a back draft and causing the exhaust from one to the other appliances to come back into the home through the other appliance.

Pellet stoves have to push the exhaust air through the vent pipe with the stove's exhaust fan. With less restriction your pellet stove will breathe easier and burn more efficiently. First let's clarify the word restriction. Restrictions come from several different items.

45 degree elbows
90 degree elbows
Horizontal distance
Vertical distance
Elevation where you live.

A rule of thumb equation we are using has been adopted by most pellet manufactures. The equation is called the sum of Equivalent Vent Length (EVL). All of the above mentioned venting restrictions have been assigned EVL values as follows:

Each 45 degree elbow = 3 EVL
Each 90 degree elbow and Tees with cleanout = 5 EVL
Each foot of horizontal run = 1 EVL
Each foot of Vertical run = 0.5 EVL
Elevations above 3000 ft with an EVL of 7 must adapt to 4 inch vent pipe.

If your installation is below 3000ft, we would need to do some math. The rule of thumb equations is that if the sum of the EVL is 15 or greater, then the pellet vent pipe would be increased to 4 inch diameter pellet vent pipe.

How many of those posts include your pics? We all love seeing your stove and pipe !!!

sydney1963 · Nov 29, 2008

huh? Just trying to help. I think pictures for new folks help.

firewarrior820 · Nov 29, 2008

kbd627 said:
sydney1963 said:

Hi, here is what mine looks like and a link that describes how much vent pipe you can use and still have your stove work properly. My vent setup adds up to 17 and still seems to work ok but I wouldn't go any higher than that.

You put the silicone on the outside of where the vent pipe twists together. And around the exhaust pipe and adaptor.

http://www.nevelsstoves.com/articles/Venting-your-pellet-stove.htm

First let us understand what we can not do as to the location for the termination of the vent pipe. If your planned termination location falls at any of the below described location, it is critical to select an alternative location. Do not compromise as the safety of your family and others will be at risk. 1. Less then 3 feet above any forced air inlet located within 10 feet 2. Less then 4 feet below or horizontally from, or 1 foot above, any door, window or gravity air inlet into any building. 3. Less then 2 feet from an adjacent building and less than 7 feet above grade when located adjacent next to a public walk way. Mobil home installations must use a spark arrester. 4. Termination should not be located where it might ignite trees, shrubs, dry grasses or be a hazard to children as exhaust gases can reach 500 degrees and cause serious burns if touched. 5. Do not install vent pipe into chimneys shared by other appliances, as you can get a back draft and causing the exhaust from one to the other appliances to come back into the home through the other appliance.

Pellet stoves have to push the exhaust air through the vent pipe with the stove's exhaust fan. With less restriction your pellet stove will breathe easier and burn more efficiently. First let's clarify the word restriction. Restrictions come from several different items.

45 degree elbows
90 degree elbows
Horizontal distance
Vertical distance
Elevation where you live.

A rule of thumb equation we are using has been adopted by most pellet manufactures. The equation is called the sum of Equivalent Vent Length (EVL). All of the above mentioned venting restrictions have been assigned EVL values as follows:

Each 45 degree elbow = 3 EVL
Each 90 degree elbow and Tees with cleanout = 5 EVL
Each foot of horizontal run = 1 EVL
Each foot of Vertical run = 0.5 EVL
Elevations above 3000 ft with an EVL of 7 must adapt to 4 inch vent pipe.

If your installation is below 3000ft, we would need to do some math. The rule of thumb equations is that if the sum of the EVL is 15 or greater, then the pellet vent pipe would be increased to 4 inch diameter pellet vent pipe.

Click to expand...

How many of those posts include your pics? We all love seeing your stove and pipe

heres mine :red:

sheranjem · Nov 30, 2008

I agree, pictures do help a lot when people are new trying to figure stuff out, especially when the stuff can cause real harm if not done correctly. For our stove, the back of it juts out from the middle of the stove to the top but is in farther at the bottom, where the collar and t connect, this makes the pipe basically up against the back of the stove since we need to go up about 4 feet before we go out, does anyone know if that is ok? I'm also a little concerned about being near the water pipes, I'm sure that the pipe itself gets very hot when the stove is burning so I don't know if it is safe to have it close to the copper pipes and I haven't been able to find anything mentioning this situation. Our stove is in the basement and so the pipes run overhead the length of the room on the wall we need to go out. If I can get some opinions on this issue we could do the venting with just the T and 1 elbow, which would be ideal, I just want to make sure it is safe. By the way, thanks for helping and sharing your setups guys.

imacman · Nov 30, 2008

sheranjem said:
I agree, pictures do help a lot when people are new trying to figure stuff out, .....

and also when we try to help people with their installs. It would help A LOT if you could mock-up your stove and pipe, and take some pics of it, plus pics of the general room area where the stove will be. I'm sure you will get a lot more helpful responses from that.

gerald · Jan 9, 2011

It seems as the link to nevelsstoves.com has been changed to
http://nevelsstoves.com/pellet-stove-venting.html

I agree that pictures really do help

Jerry

checkthisout · Jan 9, 2011

Improved post below.

checkthisout · Jan 9, 2011

This forum is weird. You cannot delete a post and it created a new post after I went in and edited another post

checkthisout · Jan 9, 2011

sheranjem said:
Hey guys, I'm a first time pellet stove owner and we are trying to install our Harman P61A and I had a few small questions, if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
1. Is the vent pipe supposed to be practically up against the back of the stove? We did a mock-up of our vent pipe and you put the collar and then the T piece and the pipe runs up like right next to the stove, is this ok or are we supposed to add another peice to move it out farther?!

I cannot find a clearance for the pipe to the back of the stove. Page 11 of the install manual nearly shows the pipe nearly touching the hopper I assume your current setup is ok.

sheranjem said:
2. Anyone know about the pellet vent pipe being near our copper water pipes? Do they need to be a specific amount of space apart or are they ok in close proximity?

Vent clearance is set by the vent manufacturer and specific model of vent from that you chose. This ranges from 1-3". If your water pipes are not combustible I.E. metal, then the clearance is zero.

sheranjem said:
3. I know you are supposed to use a few elbows as possible but the guy who delivered our stove said if you use more than 2 90 degree elbows you void your warranty, I don't see anything like that in the manual, just to use as few as possible, I can't see us using less than 3 since he said that the T piece counts as well, would prefer to use 4 but could do it with 3 but I don't want to void the warranty.

Direct from your install manual: "The longer the
vent pipe and more elbows used in the system, the
greater the flow resistance. Because of these facts we
recommend using as few elbows as possible and 15
feet or less of vent pipe. The maximum horizontal run
should not exceed 48â€. If more than 15 feet of pipe
is needed, the interior diameter should be increased
from 3â€ to 4â€ because a larger pipe causes less flow
resistance. Be sure to use approved pellet vent pipe
wall and ceiling pass-through fittings to go through
combustible walls and ceilings."

Looks like they want you to use as few elbows and as little pipe as possible but they also reccomend this:

"Vent Configurations:
To reduce probability of reverse drafting during shut-down conditions, Hearth & Home Technologies
strongly recommends:
â€¢ Installing the pellet vent with a minimum vertical run of five feet, preferably terminating above the roof line."

sheranjem said:
4. We were given an 'adjustable' piece of vent pipe, I get that you just slide the pipe into the adjustable pice to your desired length but what about using the silicone with these pieces? Just put the silicone inside the adjustable piece? Or is there a better way to connect these two pices?!

You need to refer to the install manual from the vent manufacturer. Adjustable pipe typically requires 3 screws. The best way to seal this is to reach down inside the pipe after it is screwed together and seal the inner liner by swabbing silicone on the inside of the pipe at the joint. If the adjustable portion is installed on a vertical run and you have decent overlap, I wouldn't put any silicone on it to start. But again, see what the vent manufacturer says.

sheranjem said:
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, we'd like to get this thing up and running ASAP. Thank you so much in advance, our oil bill thanks you too!

You're welcome and that's a Cadillac stove you have sitting there. Don't drive yourself bonkers pondering the ambiguities but DO take your time and ask lots of questions. You should have been provided an installation and setup manual. You can go through and highlight the important install data. If you weren't provided one, here is the link

http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P61A.pdf[/quote]

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