OK, so how much are you saving with Pellet Stoves?

trogers · Nov 30, 2008

Webmaster said:
True numbers are very hard to get.
The reasons is simple - once people are "invested" in something, they tend to keep a bright outlook. Notice that no one is posting here saying they are going to be $1000 a year BEHIND because they bought a pellet stove! It's the placebo effect. Remember that even among "effective" drugs, the placebo effect "heals" almost as many people as the real drug does!

Yes, space heating (zone heating) does save over central heating, but that does not change if you use an oil, gas, wood or pellet (or even electric) space heater.

The only fair comparison in a general sense is BTU to BTU. That is why buying pellets at the lowest possible price is important.....or, for that matter, whatever fuel you use.

There is no magic and "it just feels right" is always hard to argue with. The really rough calculation is to just move some zeros......

$300 pellets = $3.00 oil, etc.....that leaves a little slop to amortize the stove...but just a little.

LP is being advertised for $1.50 around here - At 92,000 BTU per gallon, that still ends up being slightly more expensive than $250.00 pellets, but maybe not enough to pay for a stove and installation plus day to day labor and service.

As with anything else, "it depends". I always cringe a bit when folks get on here and tell us they save 75% compared to oil, etc. because figures like that are "fish tales". Maybe someone caught a big fish, but we aren't all going to!

Wow, I was talking to a client of mine in Greenfield, MA that paid $2.68 last Tuesday and said it was the best price of 4 dealers that he called. Please share the name of the distributor of the $1.50 per gallon LP in Western MA. I have several friends and clients in the area that use LP and would love to find a good deal, especially savings of over a dollar less per gallon than the Northeast Average Retail Price for the week. My clients are non-profit human services providers, so they can really use any savings that they can find, especially this time of year. Thanks!

As far as the cost of the stove goes, that to me seems to be the major factor effecting overall savings. I get that, but I (I realize that I may be alone here) kind of biew the cost of the stove is kind of a "Sam's Club" fee, meaning that now that I own the stove I have the ability to save money going forward on a specific line item of my budget. I see the pellet stove as a kind of "speculation" on my part. I am betting that the higher than normal pellet cost that we are seeing this fall and early winter is a blip caused by the sudden increase in pellet stove sales. Oil and propane has been up significantly over the past few years compared to the previous 7-8 years. I think what we are seeing right now is the opposite of what is happening with pellets...that is, demand is lower due to the floundering economy. Hopefully, the economy will bounce back over the next few years, but I would bet that oil prices will start the comeback even sooner.

The "feels better" part is an odd phenomenon. We had relatives over for Thanksgiving who had not been here since we got our stove. To a person, they all commented on how "comfortable" the heat was, and I purposely kept it lower than usual, maybe 67-68, to account for the heat of the oven, etc.. There's got to be information somewhere that explains the difference between heat sources, I wish I could find it. I really do think that the heat is better from the stove...

Anyway, these stories are exciting! Judging from these posts, and others that I have been reading, I'm going to operate under the assumtion that not all of us (ok, maybe I have

) could have lost their minds from the pellet stoves uphoria. I'll be keeping my spreadsheet of pellet and LP usage to keep track of my costs.

rmac · Nov 30, 2008

Webmaster said:
True numbers are very hard to get.
The reasons is simple - once people are "invested" in something, they tend to keep a bright outlook. Notice that no one is posting here saying they are going to be $1000 a year BEHIND because they bought a pellet stove! It's the placebo effect. Remember that even among "effective" drugs, the placebo effect "heals" almost as many people as the real drug does!

Yes, space heating (zone heating) does save over central heating, but that does not change if you use an oil, gas, wood or pellet (or even electric) space heater.

The only fair comparison in a general sense is BTU to BTU. That is why buying pellets at the lowest possible price is important.....or, for that matter, whatever fuel you use.

There is no magic and "it just feels right" is always hard to argue with. The really rough calculation is to just move some zeros......

$300 pellets = $3.00 oil, etc.....that leaves a little slop to amortize the stove...but just a little.

LP is being advertised for $1.50 around here - At 92,000 BTU per gallon, that still ends up being slightly more expensive than $250.00 pellets, but maybe not enough to pay for a stove and installation plus day to day labor and service.

As with anything else, "it depends". I always cringe a bit when folks get on here and tell us they save 75% compared to oil, etc. because figures like that are "fish tales". Maybe someone caught a big fish, but we aren't all going to!

LP $1.50...Where???? I'm still paying over $3.00. Last week, the EAI has LP at $2.91 up by you in the New England states (see link). Even at $300/ ton, compared to LP I'm saving a bunch of $.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_propane.html

rowerwet · Dec 1, 2008

Yes my math was wrong, $5.35 a day would be more correct. I bought my pellets at Home Depot for $250/ton with a 10% off coupon, I brought them home in the rental truck from home depot and unstacked, restacked, and rewrapped them to get them off the truck. the truck cost $35 dollars ($25 for first 45 min. then the rest because an accident blocked the end of my road for a while)(I live 3 miles or so from HD) then a few dollars more for plastic wrap to rewrap the pallets, and $3 in gas to refill the tank in the truck. I used the heavy plastic covers that they came with on top of that. So I got my pellets for less than $500 and 6 months no financing no interest from my HD credit card.
My stove and install came to around $10,000 but I can subtract 8k from that as that is how much a new oil burner would have cost me this sumer (my current one is 25+ years old). Most of my install parts came from HD and with one year no intrest, no finance on my HD card, I've got the money I just like to have it a little longer. (actualy my inlaws loaned us 4k on the stove)
I think as soon as the oil prices CHANGE, from our new green administration my payoff will be much sooner.

kbjelka · Dec 1, 2008

itworks said:
rowerwet said:

based on my math,
1 bag of pellets a day,
2 tons of pellets=$535
100 days at 2.85 a day

roughly 2.5 gal of oil a day,
at currently $2.39/gal= $ 5.97 per day
100 days at $597.5

Click to expand...

Your math 2 tons of pellets=$535
Can you really buy a ton of pellets delivered to your home at $267.50, if you could that would equate to HHO@$2.28per gal.
I guess I'm suggesting you review your assumptions. Pellets cost most of us about $300@ton, and oil is currentlly about $2.00 @gal

I purchased 4 tons of Lignetics here in CT this summer. 2 tons @ $260 and 2 @ $240 so I averaged $250 a ton. Granted I picked them up but I don't think those assumptions are far fetched at all. I'd would like to know where you can get oil @ $2.00 a gallon in CT? I paid $2.85 last fill as a new customer.

j00fek · Dec 1, 2008

rowerwet said:
Yes my math was wrong, $5.35 a day would be more correct. I bought my pellets at Home Depot for $250/ton with a 10% off coupon, I brought them home in the rental truck from home depot and unstacked, restacked, and rewrapped them to get them off the truck. the truck cost $35 dollars ($25 for first 45 min. then the rest because an accident blocked the end of my road for a while)(I live 3 miles or so from HD) then a few dollars more for plastic wrap to rewrap the pallets, and $3 in gas to refill the tank in the truck. I used the heavy plastic covers that they came with on top of that. So I got my pellets for less than $500 and 6 months no financing no interest from my HD credit card.
My stove and install came to around $10,000 but I can subtract 8k from that as that is how much a new oil burner would have cost me this sumer (my current one is 25+ years old). Most of my install parts came from HD and with one year no intrest, no finance on my HD card, I've got the money I just like to have it a little longer. (actualy my inlaws loaned us 4k on the stove)
I think as soon as the oil prices CHANGE, from our new green administration my payoff will be much sooner.

how your burn rate on that setup? just checked it out and seems like a nice route to go

trogers · Dec 1, 2008

I'm noticing a common theme...and, that theme is that a lot of folks are claiming great oil and LP prices, but no one else seems to be able to find those prices. Whether it's the $2.00-2.10 oil in CT or the $150.00 LP in Western MA, I guess the pellet stove thing doesn't work out to save you money if you are finding the absolute best deal at the moment. The problem is that most people don't seem to be getting the super deals, they instead seem to be getting the pretty good deals.

Granted, some people are going to like their pellet stoves better just because they are "shiny and new", but it seems like for the most part people are finding fuel savings. Note that I didn't say bottom line savings because there is a cost for the stove and installation.

rowerwet · Dec 1, 2008

My burn rate was about 1 bag a day. It didn't seem to mater if it was cold or hot out it still took almost a bag a day in the fall just to keep the water up to temp 175*, I turned the water temp down 5* at a time over a few days, and it still used almost a bag a day even at 160*. Also at 160* I got a "river" of creosote running down from the burn pot into the ash tray. It got cold the last week when I used up my pellets in the hopper (it holds 11 bags) so I put the water temp back at 175 and turned the fan speeds and feed rates back down (had to keep them up to keep the fire from dieing out or smoking to much) and it still used about a bag a day. The hopper is not sloped enough so you will end up with about a bag to a half bag of pellets not feeding into the auger. On the iburncorn forum they recomend waxing the hoper.
I have stopped burning pellets for now as I have the most incredible price on oil ever... FREE!
I am an airplane mechanic and it costs my employer $85/gal to get waste fuel disposed of. FAA rules require any fuel removed from an aircraft to be put in a clean empty fuel tank or truck and be filtered again when it is put back in the aircraft. My employer doesn't have such a system! Instead we pump what ever we can into other aircraft in the fleet and the rest goes into old barrels from deicer fluid or whatever. I know someone will jump in and say that jetA will burn to hot in my furnace ( I don't care it is old and failing anyway) and two years ago one of our mechanics had his oil company go belly up and leave him out his prebuy money and with no oil. He started using jet-A and hasn't had any problems. Since then a Bunch of us started adding jet-A to our tanks without any problems, I ran it 60 oil/ 40 jet (highly refined kerosene) last winter with no problems. All sumer long I was bringing home jet 20 or 5 gal at time, now I have almost 300. once I burn that or my furnace dies I will be full time pellets.

krooser · Dec 1, 2008

rowerwet said:
My burn rate was about 1 bag a day. It didn't seem to mater if it was cold or hot out it still took almost a bag a day in the fall just to keep the water up to temp 175*, I turned the water temp down 5* at a time over a few days, and it still used almost a bag a day even at 160*. Also at 160* I got a "river" of creosote running down from the burn pot into the ash tray. It got cold the last week when I used up my pellets in the hopper (it holds 11 bags) so I put the water temp back at 175 and turned the fan speeds and feed rates back down (had to keep them up to keep the fire from dieing out or smoking to much) and it still used about a bag a day. The hopper is not sloped enough so you will end up with about a bag to a half bag of pellets not feeding into the auger. On the iburncorn forum they recomend waxing the hoper.
I have stopped burning pellets for now as I have the most incredible price on oil ever... FREE!
I am an airplane mechanic and it costs my employer $85/gal to get waste fuel disposed of. FAA rules require any fuel removed from an aircraft to be put in a clean empty fuel tank or truck and be filtered again when it is put back in the aircraft. My employer doesn't have such a system! Instead we pump what ever we can into other aircraft in the fleet and the rest goes into old barrels from deicer fluid or whatever. I know someone will jump in and say that jetA will burn to hot in my furnace ( I don't care it is old and failing anyway) and two years ago one of our mechanics had his oil company go belly up and leave him out his prebuy money and with no oil. He started using jet-A and hasn't had any problems. Since then a Bunch of us started adding jet-A to our tanks without any problems, I ran it 60 oil/ 40 jet (highly refined kerosene) last winter with no problems. All sumer long I was bringing home jet 20 or 5 gal at time, now I have almost 300. once I burn that or my furnace dies I will be full time pellets.

Years ago a friend of mine used to get me free jet fuel from the national Guard flight wing he was attached to.... they had a similar deal with used fuel. I used it in a salamander heater in my shop. Did burn hotter but no more kerosene stink...

alexei27 · Dec 1, 2008

We thought long and hard about the savings. The cost of the stove, vent, pellets, and hearth pad comes to just under $3000. I did the install myself. Pellets were $850 for 3 tons.

We fill the 275 gal tank 3 times in a winter. At todays prices (~2.49/gal)...thats right around $2600. When oil was $4 a gal, I would have paid it off in the first year. Now I figure I'll have paid it off next year.

Lets assume the stove lasts me 20 years...thats $107 a year for the investment....plus the $850 for pellets. Lets add on $50 a year for maintenance??. So the stove costs me 1057 a year. So I figure as of next year...I will save approximately $1500 a year over oil.

Obviously if heating oil drops to $20 or below the savings gets pushed back further. Now...its 7am and I just got done working a crazy night shift writing aviation forecasts...so my math may be a little shaky!!

MCPO · Dec 1, 2008

I think I`m saving zilch, well maybe a little bit.
I`m heating my finished basement and some heat rising to the first floor with pellets but to be honest I think my oil furnace would do better for the same but I`m hell bent on burning my pellet supply this winter and doing the math come April 30th , the day I installed the stove. At that point I can calculate more accurately any savings but so far it doesn`t look like there will be any.
Personally I think some folks are only fooling themselves or at least living with less heat in the outlying areas of their homes..

whippingwater · Dec 1, 2008

I've burned 1500 gallons of LP each year for the 7 years we've been in this house. Can't get the useage down no matter what I do. (Six sliding glass doors on the north side may have something to do with that.) The LP prebuy was $2.48 a gallon plus tax if you own the tank which I do. Current price for LP is $2.19 + tax. I paid $170 a ton in May for 5 ton delivered. I expect to need another 3 ton at about $200 a ton to make the winter. This is for central heat with 4 zones and DHW.

LP @ 2.48 x 1500 x .06 tax = $3943.20
LP @ 2.19 x 1500 x .06 tax = $3482.10
5 ton@ $850+3 ton@ $200 = $1450.00

At the best price I can get LP and if it stays at that price all year I'm still saving $2000.00. At this rate I'll get payback in 5 year for the Tarm Multiheat 4.0 with a 20 year warranty. (I purchased it used 1 year and installed myself so yes it is less than you would get from a dealer.)

trogers · Dec 1, 2008

Gio said:
I think I`m saving zilch, well maybe a little bit.
I`m heating my finished basement and some heat rising to the first floor with pellets but to be honest I think my oil furnace would do better for the same but I`m hell bent on burning my pellet supply this winter and doing the math come April 30th , the day I installed the stove. At that point I can calculate more accurately any savings but so far it doesn`t look like there will be any.
Personally I think some folks are only fooling themselves or at least living with less heat in the outlying areas of their homes..

It does seem that a lot of posters that have stoves in the basement report less savings and not as much heat benefit. I was talking to a builder friend of mine and he mentioned that any kind of stove in the basement loses heat due to the cold cement walls "sucking it up". I wonder if that's true.

I for one can say confidently that I am not living with any less heat. In fact, my downstairs (Stove is on the 1st floor) is on average 3-5 degrees higher than it was using propane. Granted, my floor plan is very open so that probably helps. Also, with the help of a fan in the stairwell blowing low and down the stairs I am able to keep the bedrooms at 66 degrees at night, which we find fairly comfortable for sleeping. The one down side is that the twon rooms over our garage upstairs don't get the heat transfer that the bedrooms do. We simply run the upstairs furnace at night, which goes on a lot less due to the heat rising up from below, to heat the whole upsatirs when we are up. But, as I said earlier, we haven't used our dowstairs furnace at all this year, and our upstairs furnace is not going on nearly as much as in years past.

Gio, are you using fans to distubute air upstairs?

Mod178 · Dec 2, 2008

Hi, i am new to this sight and new to the pellet stove that I got 3 months ago.

I bought my pellets and paid $185 dollars for 1 ton. I have now started mixing corn with my pellets that I paid $31 dollars for 520 poounds of corn. I am mixing 60 percent corn and 40 percent pellets.

I am on a waiting list from a local farm store here for 1 more ton of pellets that are now $199 per ton. (Man there hard to get).

Last year I had 2 to 3 months that I paid $430 dollars a month fot propane. For the $220 dollars I have spent this year I have been heating my house for about 6 weeks or so and have enough for about 2 to 3 weeks left. (May need some more corn to make it htat long but have enought pellets if continue mixing.)

I have my stove in the basement and it is heating my whole house. I do have some fans running to push the air up the steeps to help heat the upstairs. 69deg. in the morning and 74 in the after noon upstairs.

About 2000sq. feet total house. 30 to 40 deg. outside.

I think my savings are going to be good,

joe_pinehill · Dec 2, 2008

When I did the math in September, in round numbers I came up with a break even in about 3 years for the Stove+pellets versus Propane.

After only a week, its clear the added value is a much cozier house. Its just a lot more comfortable.

Every now and then you buy something youve been putting off, and think god I wish I had bought one years ago.

trogers · Dec 2, 2008

I absolutley wish that I had bought one when I built my house a few years ago, but more than that...I wish that I didn't go with LP for heat! I was on NG in my last house and didn't do enought research into the true cost of LP. Also, if I ever build again, I'll consider radiant floor heating with a pellet boiler. I have been in house with radiant heating and the difference is amazing, but the pellet stove comes in a very close second.

rowerwet · Dec 2, 2008

Gio said:
Personally I think some folks are only fooling themselves or at least living with less heat in the outlying areas of their homes..

That's the nice thing about a pellet boiler, it ties into my FHW baseboard system so no reduced heat anywhere, in fact my basement is warmer due to the plumbing for the HX circulator loop staying at about 175*. In my 200 yr old house that heat comes right up through the floor. The only down side, I can't sit and watch the fire like the hot air types can.

Jim H. · Dec 2, 2008

we just got our 1st electric bill to compare last year vs. this year for electric. we saved 30 bucks there alone (house all electric). we had a propane firelplace upstairs and a propane stove (like a smaller version of the xxv). we filled up the tank on that 2 times and really barely ran them! Never enough to feel really warm. the pellet stove we have is downstairs (bilevel). heat comes up the open stairs real well. also did a register where the heat gets trapped on the wall away from the pellet stove because of a beam running the length of the ceiling. downstairs is 75 or so and now easily gets to 70 upstairs in the living room dining room and kitchen. the bedrooms stay around 65 or so. so far averaging the propane into the equation we easily will save 150 a month for approximately 6 months. the temps in eastern pa were pretty cold last month in the 20's and teens alot! so breakeven in 4 years or less!

dbjc364 · Dec 2, 2008

For 4 years,we had been wanting to get away from using oil-somehow. If it wasn't the number of gallons used- then it was high price per gallon that we were always going around & around with.We figured we'd have to finance to do it.Toyota flunked our 4x4{mint condition on the outside}truck- with a bad frame{unknown to us}, as the truck was running fine.I adored that truck-it was paid off,and hated to give it up. For the whole inconvienence episode,we were compensated with a "windfall profit" as the salesman called it. My man was persistent in moving away from oil with the pellet stove set-up.His persistence paid off-and I listened to him, and kept my fingers crossed. This meant I had to look at pink panther insulation walls for a much longer time, had to walk on an Advantech OSB floor for even longer.There goes my click laminate floor, and my downstairs bubblebath soak.The whole set-up, stove-taxes-installation-pad-pellets for the first year, was paid for by Toyota,so there was no "investment" here, as it wasn't out of our own pocket.We did the math- kept track of every cent-just as if it was out of our own pocket.Starting next year-it will be.The only cost to us was the gas to go get the pellets,as they also bought us an older decent running truck.Talk about a higher power intervention.I am sitting in the dining room with 6 inch insulation in the walls-2 rooms away from the stove.My feet are actually warm-its 34* outside.My dining room temp says 68*.The living room temp is 70* where the stove is.I never got that with oil-no matter how many times I clicked on that thermastat-which was constantly.I was {am}nervous about moving away from oil being so dependent on it most of my life,but my room temperature gauges dont lie,my feet dont lie,the number crunches dont lie. We are now financing the additional insulation exspense to make sure the pellet stove does what it does best-and thats heat.I'm glad he was so persistent,even if I have to look at the pink panther-the good stuff will come later.At least in this house-no one will ever convince me its all in my head... :roll:

MCPO · Dec 2, 2008

NH Pellet Head said:
Gio said:

I think I`m saving zilch, well maybe a little bit.
I`m heating my finished basement and some heat rising to the first floor with pellets but to be honest I think my oil furnace would do better for the same but I`m hell bent on burning my pellet supply this winter and doing the math come April 30th , the day I installed the stove. At that point I can calculate more accurately any savings but so far it doesn`t look like there will be any.
Personally I think some folks are only fooling themselves or at least living with less heat in the outlying areas of their homes..

Click to expand...

It does seem that a lot of posters that have stoves in the basement report less savings and not as much heat benefit. I was talking to a builder friend of mine and he mentioned that any kind of stove in the basement loses heat due to the cold cement walls "sucking it up". I wonder if that's true.

I for one can say confidently that I am not living with any less heat. In fact, my downstairs (Stove is on the 1st floor) is on average 3-5 degrees higher than it was using propane. Granted, my floor plan is very open so that probably helps. Also, with the help of a fan in the stairwell blowing low and down the stairs I am able to keep the bedrooms at 66 degrees at night, which we find fairly comfortable for sleeping. The one down side is that the twon rooms over our garage upstairs don't get the heat transfer that the bedrooms do. We simply run the upstairs furnace at night, which goes on a lot less due to the heat rising up from below, to heat the whole upsatirs when we are up. But, as I said earlier, we haven't used our dowstairs furnace at all this year, and our upstairs furnace is not going on nearly as much as in years past.

Gio, are you using fans to distubute air upstairs?

I`m only using a small muffin fan to send some heat up but to be honest I only have the stove at #1 setting (lowest) and it keeps the whole finished basement at 73 degrees. (600 sq ft) Since we use the finished basement most of the time we don`t want to overheat it just to send more heat upstairs.
I guess it would heat most of the upstairs if I moved it upstairs but I would then have a cold basement unless I turn on the basement zoned oil baseboard heat.

wak1954 · Dec 2, 2008

Back in May we needed to get more K1 in the tank for our Monitor heaters and Monitor hot water heater. We also have an antique cookstove that was converted to K1 years ago. When I called for oil, they said that the price was $4.86 a gallon, but they hadn't been able to get any for 3 weeks and didn't know when they would be receiving any.That was scary. Not only did we not know what the cost would be, but availability was a big concern. We found a new supplier at $4.86 a gallon, but knew that we had to look for alternatives.
Friends at work had pellet stoves and seemed very happy with their performance, so I bought one on Ebay for $1052.00 and pellets at $290.00 aton delivered. I hooked up the stove myself, and we were in business.
Now K1 is readily available at $2.79 a gallon and all pellets in this area are $6.00 a bag, with no pallet discount. I believe that the cost of burning pellets is more than that of burning K1 oil, but I sleep much better at night now, knowing that I have a choice, and will not go cold.

tinkabranc · Dec 2, 2008

So far, running the stove vs. the furnace has saved me quite a bit of $$ with
both my NG and electric bills. Can't beat the type of heat either.

It has also saved my hubby from getting his arm ripped off and beaten to death
with it because he was constantly turning up the furnace thermostat before we
got the stove.

If the pellet prices next year continue to rise, my savings comparison will
may get alot slimmer but I won't give up the stove.

OK, so how much are you saving with Pellet Stoves?

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