Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Ans,
I understand your view, and we all have our personal views on everything.
Here are a few things I considered strictly by what I read and of course am not there or seeing the install.
Every install is different, unless its a suburban development where every home is the same, each install will have its own circumstances.
That said, it impossible for an installer to have a set means of installation that works for ever case. This installer was trying to save the owner some cash.
Maybe he has done stub ins in other instances with say a taller chimney and had no problems due to a good draft. I am not defending the installer, as I don't even believe in stub ins, but it is practiced in areas and appears some have no problems. I had one here prior to me ripping the old POS insert out and replacing along with a full liner.
What no one seams to be asking, is how did it pass inspection the first time? Was there an inspection? And if so, why is not one lynching the inspector? They get paid a fee, and are the end of the line as far as considering it a safe & proper install or not. Seams to me the inspector did not even inspect it the second time around, but merely asked what do you want, fail? Ok its failed. That is hardly an inspection, and he may be partly to blame in the first place if he did an original inspection. What if it was a good install and full liner etc. And without inspection he said you want it to fail? Ok its failed. Is that right practices?
Another point....
Scenario: Ok everyone, I am purchasing a new insert and the dealer is bringing it Friday for install. Got a decent price of $3,000.00 for the whole thing installed liner & all.
If the home owner does not ask & know exactly what the $3,000.00 is buying him, its also partly his fault. Questions like: Is it a full liner to top? Is a lower block off plate installed? Is it insulated?
Etc etc etc. Not just, I purchased a Summit for x amount of dollars and the install is x amount of dollars, I am all set.
If the owner now says ok, what does this labor exactly cover? and Is it a full liner etc. What about a damper block off plate? If not included, how much to install one? Etc Etc.
The installer is more than willing to go back and make things right. How many dealers are actually willing to do that without having to call them 10x before they even come out to look at the problem?
The guy is offering to do a full liner for just the extra cost of material, which would have to be paid in the first place. And it takes more labor to run a full liner than just a stub in. If he is willing to do the full liner for free even though its more labor intensive, and the owner is ok with that. Then by all means go for it. In my book, if the installer is so far showing very good faith and has not given any resistance, after the situation is rectified and if all is right and stove running well, I would keep tabs on the labor performed, the ease or difficulty of the full liner install, which is not as easy as a stub in, the guys attitude and factor all in. If the guy comes, works hard, does it right and treats me right, I'd prolly give him A hundred or couple hundred dollars for the extra work. That is just me though, and we all have our ways ways of doing things.
Figure it this way, how many guys came, unloaded the stove, installed the liner or had to deal with the damper opening etc, 4 hrs you said, but does that include the travel from & to their shop, and them to load the stove on the truck etc? 4 hours may actually been 5 or 6? And if more than 1 guy now you are splitting that labor amount in half or more? Do what you feel is right in your mind.
Me I'd start at $100.00 and possibly do $200.00. His good faith and your good faith. Thats just me.
I understand your view, and we all have our personal views on everything.
Here are a few things I considered strictly by what I read and of course am not there or seeing the install.
Every install is different, unless its a suburban development where every home is the same, each install will have its own circumstances.
That said, it impossible for an installer to have a set means of installation that works for ever case. This installer was trying to save the owner some cash.
Maybe he has done stub ins in other instances with say a taller chimney and had no problems due to a good draft. I am not defending the installer, as I don't even believe in stub ins, but it is practiced in areas and appears some have no problems. I had one here prior to me ripping the old POS insert out and replacing along with a full liner.
What no one seams to be asking, is how did it pass inspection the first time? Was there an inspection? And if so, why is not one lynching the inspector? They get paid a fee, and are the end of the line as far as considering it a safe & proper install or not. Seams to me the inspector did not even inspect it the second time around, but merely asked what do you want, fail? Ok its failed. That is hardly an inspection, and he may be partly to blame in the first place if he did an original inspection. What if it was a good install and full liner etc. And without inspection he said you want it to fail? Ok its failed. Is that right practices?
Another point....
Scenario: Ok everyone, I am purchasing a new insert and the dealer is bringing it Friday for install. Got a decent price of $3,000.00 for the whole thing installed liner & all.
If the home owner does not ask & know exactly what the $3,000.00 is buying him, its also partly his fault. Questions like: Is it a full liner to top? Is a lower block off plate installed? Is it insulated?
Etc etc etc. Not just, I purchased a Summit for x amount of dollars and the install is x amount of dollars, I am all set.
If the owner now says ok, what does this labor exactly cover? and Is it a full liner etc. What about a damper block off plate? If not included, how much to install one? Etc Etc.
The installer is more than willing to go back and make things right. How many dealers are actually willing to do that without having to call them 10x before they even come out to look at the problem?
The guy is offering to do a full liner for just the extra cost of material, which would have to be paid in the first place. And it takes more labor to run a full liner than just a stub in. If he is willing to do the full liner for free even though its more labor intensive, and the owner is ok with that. Then by all means go for it. In my book, if the installer is so far showing very good faith and has not given any resistance, after the situation is rectified and if all is right and stove running well, I would keep tabs on the labor performed, the ease or difficulty of the full liner install, which is not as easy as a stub in, the guys attitude and factor all in. If the guy comes, works hard, does it right and treats me right, I'd prolly give him A hundred or couple hundred dollars for the extra work. That is just me though, and we all have our ways ways of doing things.
Figure it this way, how many guys came, unloaded the stove, installed the liner or had to deal with the damper opening etc, 4 hrs you said, but does that include the travel from & to their shop, and them to load the stove on the truck etc? 4 hours may actually been 5 or 6? And if more than 1 guy now you are splitting that labor amount in half or more? Do what you feel is right in your mind.
Me I'd start at $100.00 and possibly do $200.00. His good faith and your good faith. Thats just me.
