Crude Is Rude

I'm on propane, so it's not a question for me...I'll burn pellets. But, I have to say that even if propane was a little cheaper than propane I would still burn out of principle. I've had it with oil (last house) and propane (new house).

For me, it's either Propane or pellets. I have often wondered why gas is preferred in the west over oil, but oh, well.

My relationship with my LPG supplier is a Love/Hate thing. They love it when I pay my bill, but they seem to hate me when it comes to tank-filling time. I have run out more times than I care to remember.

Heating my home with pellets costs about half as much as heating with the magic gas. Even if the costs were equal, I would still prefer pellets, as I can buy a ton when I am able, or I can buy a few bags for a few dollars. The LPG company isn't going to send a truck out here for a $20 gas sale. They are open M-F, 8-4. If I run out on a weekend, I can go buy some exchange tanks. Nobody here fills tanks on the weekend. The last 5-gal exchange tank I bought was $23. That tank will run my furnace for a day.

5 bags of pellets for $25 will heat my home for a week.

There are drawbacks to pellets. These mostly relate to transport, storage and maintenance. My old pickup truck has run afoul of the smog police and can't be registered. This means I have to haul smaller loads in the minivan. No big deal, as there is no price break when buying 10 bags vs. 100.

I have to load/unload the bags and store them, and I have to fill the stove as well as clean it regularly. I am willing to do that to save $200+ per month.

krooser said:

I really feel sorry for you folks out east who are forced to heat with oil... not much for alternatives except pellets or wood.

I'll continue to heat with pellets as my house is now WARM which is harder to do with my natural gas furnace... my forced air system really would need a complete new hot and cold air duct system to be efficient.

Our pellet prices here are also considerably cheaper than what you guys have to pay so I get a little price break in addition to a warm house.

Click to expand...

You might want to think seriously about upgrading your gas furnace to a more efficient one if your pellet stove warms your house better . I mean whats the value in a house with a substandard central heating system? It just has to diminish the value of the house , especially for resale.

I was planning on burning natural gas instead of pellets this year until I got my November gas bill. The market price for NG is around $6 a therm, but I was billed for $9. I guess my gas provider bought futures this summer in anticipation of record high prices this winter. Now I'm stuck, use futured NG or pellets (the cheapest in my area is $199 a ton). Those who buy heating oil monthly aren't in this dilema.

Check that. $299 a ton. Sorry.

itworks said:

..... while I watch the 1st place NY Jets, with Brett Farve calling the plays defeat The Denver Broncos.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm. You MUST have been thinking about the NY GIANTS defeating the Redskins, 'cause last time I looked, the Jets got their A** handed to them by Denver. I imagine it actually WAS kinda cold in your house watching that debacle.

itworks said:

HHO@$2.00 per gal equates to about a ton of pellets delivered to the home at a cost of $235. Yeah I know we're can't get pellets at that price, and many of you will probably say that the price of oil will rise. But lets just say for the next 6-12 months HHO stays at this price, do you think that pellet prices will fall below $235@ton, or do some mills just go out of business because they can't compete, or do pellet users just say "don't care of HHO is cheaper I'll burn pellets"?

Click to expand...

If mills go under,it's cause of the greedy ^%%^$$^ out there. I would still buy pellets, furnaces are'nt fun to watch when your drunk.

I agree, retailer's greed will kill the lumberjack that laid the golden stove. And once the manufacturers go under, the prices will not fall, or be be competitive. Pellet stoves will become a luxury item with an occasional bag thrown in for ambiance.

pelletpoor said:

I was planning on burning natural gas instead of pellets this year until I got my November gas bill. The market price for NG is around $6 a therm, but I was billed for $9. I guess my gas provider bought futures this summer in anticipation of record high prices this winter. Now I'm stuck, use futured NG or pellets (the cheapest in my area is $199 a ton). Those who buy heating oil monthly aren't in this dilema.

Click to expand...

This is unbelieveable isn`t it?
Here we been knocking those crooked oil folks all last year over the rediculous price increases and now we have our own greedy folks raising the price of NG (40%) in one fell swoop here in my area.
Pellets and stove prices are higher than they should be too.

The heat from my St. Croix feels better than the forced air lp. We have a salt box with a split level basement / family room.
Now I can watch TV without a blanket. It heat radiates through the floors. The forced air does not heat the objects around it as well.
Makes the old ladys nose dry.

Two years ago when there was supposed to be a pellet shortage, I went to Home Depot in April to pick up a few bags.
They had 60-80 tons sitting outside. You had to dig to find a dry bag.

The retailers will get stuck with a bunch of pellets again this year. Or they will stop ordering in February and leave the
12 bag a weekers hanging in March.

Did the pellet pigs cause this ??

While pellets are conveniant and environmentally friendly, IMHO, since I live in the woods with lots of wood available and all the storage space I ever need, I must say that for me having to buy pellets just doesn't stack up to a free fuel source. Plus wood stoves just burn prettier. Not everyone is so fortunate or of the same mind and adding an adequate chimney, the work, etc makes pellets a reasonable alternative for many. In the East, we're a long ways away from natural gas sources and near ocean ports. I think that's the main reason oil heat is so prevelant here. With prices of all petroleum based fuels dropping through the floor, I do think it will dampen the markets for wood fuels and create some tough times for pellet manufactures. Hopefully they weather these times because I think we all know that sometime relativley soon petro fuel price are going to go back up again. And we still have the CO2 issue to deal with.

"Hopefully they weather these times because I think we all know that sometime relativley soon petro fuel price are going to go back up again. And we still have the CO2 issue to deal with."

Not sure we "know" they'll go back up. Merril Lynch analyst said Thursday that crude could drop below $25/barrell in 2009, and gas could be below $1.

As for C02...I don't believe it's an issue at all. It will be MADE an issue in Jan, but that's a whole different matter.


Jim

jpl1nh said:

While pellets are conveniant and environmentally friendly, IMHO, since I live in the woods with lots of wood available and all the storage space I ever need, I must say that for me having to buy pellets just doesn't stack up to a free fuel source. Plus wood stoves just burn prettier. Not everyone is so fortunate or of the same mind and adding an adequate chimney, the work, etc makes pellets a reasonable alternative for many. In the East, we're a long ways away from natural gas sources and near ocean ports. I think that's the main reason oil heat is so prevelant here. With prices of all petroleum based fuels dropping through the floor, I do think it will dampen the markets for wood fuels and create some tough times for pellet manufactures. Hopefully they weather these times because I think we all know that sometime relativley soon petro fuel price are going to go back up again. And we still have the CO2 issue to deal with.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm It seems as if I have heard this from someone on a cool fall night in the woods up a rugged mountain trail. ( the guy I bought my stove from said the same exact thing)

I dont have the availability of wood. My oil man is a moron, who's let me house run dry more than once ( I didnt think you would burn that much). Ive got a 1951 American Standard Steam boiler that I now no longer depend on.
The BEST benefit to my stove, is that my wife has the living room so freaking hot, she cant stay awake on the couch watching TV for more than 5 minutes without falling asleep. A quick check on the email, a breeze by here and VOILA the remote's all mine.

To me the pellet stove is an alternative to a wood stove, space and less mess making it more attractive in THIS house. The way its running and the family falling in love with it was the final sell for me. THey'll have to pay ME to run my furnace again, even if oil is 1.91 a gallon here right now

We are well on our way to heating the house this Winter on 3 tons.
To heat with oil it would take about 700 gal + 200 gal for hot water. (Annually and a guess on hot water usage)

3 tons@ $314/ton delivered= $942
700 gal @ $1.30/gal= $910 (Don't think it will get this low???)
700 gal @ $2.50/gal= $1750 (Current price here)

Yup, sticking with pellets until Spring

last year we used 145 gals. of oil for heat from sept to mid [email protected]/gal=$333.50
so far pellets 40 [email protected] per=$200.00
i quess i found the super pellets :bug:

Last year I burned 2000 gallons of oil and my house was only 65* F. This year I'm only burning pellets and I'm on track to only burn 3 tons of pellets. My house is now 85* F burning pellets, compared to the frosty 65* F of last year. 2000 gal. of oil would cost me $10,000 (2000 gal. x $5) and my pellets only cost me $900, so I plan on saving $9,100 this year heating my house with pellets. Oh, and it's a different kind of heat too (much better).


The BS runs fast and deep in this forum at times...

Wet1 said:

Last year I burned 2000 gallons of oil and my house was only 65* F. This year I'm only burning pellets and I'm on track to only burn 3 tons of pellets. My house is now 85* F burning pellets, compared to the frosty 65* F of last year. 2000 gal. of oil would cost me $10,000 (2000 gal. x $5) and my pellets only cost me $900, so I plan on saving $9,100 this year heating my house with pellets. Oh, and it's a different kind of heat too (much better).


The BS runs fast and deep in this forum at times...

Click to expand...

I hear you Wet 1!
Ya just gotta love some of the stories posted here. Some exaggerations have no limits.

itworks said:

lessoil said:

We are well on our way to heating the house this Winter on 3 tons.
To heat with oil it would take about 700 gal + 200 gal for hot water. (Annually and a guess on hot water usage)

3 tons@ $314/ton delivered= $942
700 gal @ $1.30/gal= $910 (Don't think it will get this low???)
700 gal @ $2.50/gal= $1750 (Current price here)

Yup, sticking with pellets until Spring

Click to expand...

It seems you found the world's greatest pellets. By your math, 3 tons(150 bags) of pellets is equivalent 700 gals of HHO. That means one 40 lb bag of pellets is equivalent to 4.67 gals of HHO. Either your assumptions need editing, or would you please share with us the brand name of these SUPER pellets your using so that the rest of us can begin to save big $$$'s like you.

Click to expand...

The rest of the story....
No We do not have SUPER PELLETS, but we do have a small Cape. 24X32
We are heating the 1st and 2nd floor (about 1540 sq ft).

Fact: Today it was about 25F all day and we were able to maintain 72F downstairs and 64-66 upstairs with
the stove set on 1.(Stove Mode) When it was 8F last week we had to set the stove on 2.5 to maintain 72-73.

Fact: Last year we burned 695 gal and the year before 900 gal. (Colder and before adding another R19 to crawl space)

Like I said I guessed at the amount used annually for hot water. Maybe it should be 150 gal or 100??
That would easily add another ton for heat if we only used 100 gal for hot water.
We have a 40 gal BoilerMate for domestic hot water.

So, I did learn a valuable lesson:
Do Not Speculate on tons to be burned, only report on tons burned.

Just did an inventory. We have 170 bags left out of 200. I also burned another 6
bags prior to receiving the 4 tons. So we have burned 36 bags ($216) since mid October.

this member has a super harman ,i got get me one of these stoves,,,,,


Just got the p68 installed 1 week ago after waiting until placing the order in Aug. This thing is absolutely great! Lots of heat, simple operation, and minimal maintenance. At first I was afraid that it wouldn’t heat the whole house and therefore, wouldn’t provide a money saving solution to our oil furnace but the p68 can reach just about every inch of the 3 story house with 2000 sq ft. I have the stove in the finished basement and have tried to keep it running all of the time. It really is very practical.