Best EPA drafting Stove for Masonry Chimney

I have searched for days online and spoken with two local dealers at length, trying to discover the best new stove choice for my existing chimney if I do *not* want to install 6" stainless steel liner. The dealers opinions (and/or lack thereof) vary so considerably that I am not confident yet when considering spending $2000 on a new stove. I am now here hoping to glean any insight from those who may have experience venting into a chimney instead of perfectly sized 6" SS pipe.

Some background details:

20 year old Basement entry on slab traditional framed home - R40 in ceiling and R20 walls - double glazed windows.
1200 sq ft main floor down where the wood burner and cold air intake is.
1250 sq ft upstairs vaulted ceiling
Straight up appx 30' central chimney built to code with 6"X10" tile flue

I've had a 20+ year old mid size air tight stove (Cascade Triumph running well but with short burn times and too much pollution) Stove enters chimney via single wall pipe into masonry thimble.

With the vaulted ceilings upstairs, approximately 20' of the 30' chimney is inside the home with the remainder in the attic and above the roof line. Each year I get some glazing in the top 10' of the chimney and I clean and inspect it thoroughly myself and have done so for over 10 years. The wood stove has been backup to hot water Nat Gas hydronic heating system (separate vent in same chimney) in floor down and in registers up, but that is on the verge of changing modestly.

I am looking to buy a new, sturdy EPA stove to A) cut down on pollution B) provide longer burn times and more even heat using less fuel and C) the new stove (or the old stove if I can't find a suitable new stove that will draft well) will also have a custom *external* water jacket placed on it's rear or side end, that will pre-heat my hydronic heating water (yes, it will be professionally done with pressure relief valves, extra storage tank, backup circ pump and all essential overflow protections. It will be external, not internal in the firebox so it should not radically affect the burning)

Drafting has never been an issue with my chimney and my old faithful smallish stove, as long as I use well seasoned wood and get it and the chimney warm before dampening it down, but I 'hear' the new stoves may prove difficult on anything other than pure 6" pipe ad not even sure I can get 6" pipe down my flue if I needed to.

So far I like the two local large size stove choices of Regency 3100 or the Pacific Energy Summit, but not even the dealers are much help with info on their performance on a 6"x10" flue, saying only that if I encountered problems, I would more than likely have to go with a 5 1/2 inch flue liner if things don't work out, but then that could also be an issue as it might be too small - {this is where I started rolling my eyes}!

Does anyone here have any experience running either of these stoves or any new EPA stove for that matter, on an existing 6"X10" vertical chimney?

Is a larger EPA stove better for a larger flue size and higher chimney? I don't want to be roasted out of the house but longer burn time and not having to add wood every 3 hours like my old beater stove, is important to me.

Anyone have experience with EPA stoves on regular chimney flues? Can they work well? Can you dampen them down and still get a good clean burn?

Thanks very much in advance for any and all feedback

Thanks for the fast feedback and nice welcome!

Bluefrier - is your stove rated for 6" and you are doing fine with 5 1/2"? Does it make any difference the height of the chimney when undersizing a flue?

Uptrapper - that's good to hear - Just had a look at your Harmon stove - very nice! 3 cu ft box seems to be close in size to the Pac Energy Summit. Score one for an existing flue working.

Stoveguy2esw - I'm not sure of the general rule on flue size to chimney height ... is it the higher the chimney the more critical the flue size ...or is it the higher the chimney, the more drafting power and hence more flexible flue size?

Hogwildz - Not sure what you mean by the "added cross section"? Ya, I originally started looking for a complete wood boiler but the wife wants something aesthetically pleasing to replace the existing wood stove and it will be tough to hide a monster boiler anywhere else in the house, and also, I haven't seen a wood boiler under $6,000 that has any 'green' burning capacity. Any links to alternative wood boilers for bargain prices?

Worst case scenario and I have to get a SS flue liner down the road, does squeezing a 6" by making it slightly oval, into my 6x10 flue, cause issues with drafting? I can see how it would cause issues with brushing.

Thanks again ...

lol - good point - I think I can hide the jacket pretty well out of sight, so she will have to be ;-)

According to my local stove dealer, Regency Stoves (among others) evidently did supply an external bolt on side mounted Water Jacket some time back, but someone somewhere didn't set one up right, a small explosion occured and Water Jackets were removed from the market.

It wouldn't surprise me if there has been a concerted effort by the NatGas and Heating oil industries to remove wood hot water jackets from the entire marketplace. A self sufficient consumer is way too dangerous to bottom lines. wink wink - nudge nudge.

Here in BC, there were major incentives some years back to switch homes over to NatGas appliances. Many populated cities have since banned wood stoves and even though NatGas used to be delivered by our own public utility and western Canada is a significant producer, our entire NatGas utility is now owned by a Texas company .... and we all pay way more $$$$ for it than ever :-(

From my cold dead hands they'll have to pry away my wood stove!

great feedback ... happy I stumbled on this site.

Chipsoflyin ... what stove are you using and how high is your 12x12 chimney?

Todd ... at first glance I see your stove has a catalytic converter. I've heard they are more fussy than non-cat stoves when it comes to flue size. Can anyone confirm this?

As far as an external water jacket extracting too much heat, while I don't yet have any practical experience with this, here is an interesting article claiming their solution (50' coil inside a metal panel smothered in a plaster of paris) only used radiant heat and didn't affect firebox temps.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1984-01-01/Add-Water-Heater-To-Stove.aspx

I'm near the Fraser Valley in mountains, so we're about half way between interior weather and coast weather. I'll check out your Country Flame stove further ... thanks Annette.

Karl - Our central brick chimney has always been a very pleasing source of radiant heat for the house. With the wood stove downstairs, the chimney once warm (in Spring and Fall the furnace never comes on), also radiates warmth into the main living area upstairs for hours. I'm guessing putting a liner in the chimney will diminish some of its radiant heat storage capacity in the bricks, and focus the heat downstairs in the wood stove. This may not be a bad thing especially if we gain heat for our hydronic pipes through a water jacket, but the pleasant chimney warmth holds some nostalgic value that I would like to preserve if at all possible.

Goldenearringz - lol - I stand corrected .... "From my HOT dead hands, they’ll have to pry away my wood stove!"

Chipsoflyin - I'm wondering if it is to your advantage running a small stove hot, instead of a large stove dampened down, that makes your system work so well in such as large chimney? You seem to be breaking some of the rules yet succeeding quite nicely.

Stoveguy2esw - thanks for that thorough explanation.

Todd - "A lot depends on the stove" - yes, I think you've pegged it. I need more ratings on how well specific stoves suck wind ;-)
Nice looking stove that Woodstock Fireview - unfortunately our Cdn $ is low again, so I'm trying to shop closer to home for now.

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Recently found this for anyone else who wants some general Chimney details
... "What Makes a Good Chimney"
http://www.woodstove.com/pages/good_chimney.html

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Now that you've all helped me better understand chimney/stove relationships, my remaining decision seems to be based on how much individual stoves can 'suck wind' - it seems I definitely want to get one that errs on the side of generous moving air capacity, to have the best shot at using my existing chimney.

Any more specific stove air/wind capacity ideas greatly appreciated. After watching my neighbours Regency in action, I suspect I might have to leave the door open more than I would like with that particular stove.

his starting method for his large Regency was lazier than I'm used to. He put in some kindling on paper, closed the door and opened the seemingly minuscule draft (I always have to start my non EPA stove with door cracked open - opening my drafts up full just won't cut it). The fire started decently, then he placed a 1/4 log on the fire and in about 10 minutes throttled down the draft half way. The fire grew gradually but never let it thunder like my old beast can. He has a 6" liner on an appx 22' chimney. He had some soot on the window so I am thinking he maybe should be getting it hotter, faster, before throttling it down.

So my concern is whether or not being able to do this sort of lazy start (which may not be best as his sooty window suggested) is a demonstration of drafting ability on a 6" flue, or something that could work on my chimney also? With my non-epa stove, I *must light fires and leave the door open for a good 15 to 20 minutes in order to get the chimney and stove hot, before even thinking of shutting the door and adjusting down the damper. If I was to use his method on my stove, the fire would die. In the event his ability to start the stove and run it on low demonstrates a better draft with his flue than I could achieve, then I am concerned I may have to keep the door of a similar stove open regularly, in order to just achieve a basic, slow steady burn.

Interesting read at woodstoves.org - thanks