Has anyone seen or installed a garn unit inside. I am desinging a home and if this were possible would like to do so. From all the pictures I have seen it seems all are outside. I would think you run into a weight issue in the home and the fact of bringing it in. All said, should I design my home around the garn unit?
Indoor GARN installation
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From what I've seen, an attached garage that isn't a garage for code reasons seems to be the best location. I can't imagine putting one in a basement then building around it. Maybe if you have a walkout. You would need a ventilation hood over the loading door as it will likely smoke a bit while loading. Having it inside means you need to at least handle a bunch of wood inside that makes a mess.
I plan on having a walk out basement and thought maybe some double 48"steel doors if I ever had to move it. As far as the outside location is there code for the distance from the house? If possible I would like the unit close to the home.
heaterman
Minister of Fire
I was working with a construction firm this past fall that had a separate room, actually outside the basement but underground, that housed the Garn. It was basically just three walls and a concrete "plank" type covering with access to outside via a walkout. Last I heard the whole project fell through due to the credit fiasco we are living through right now.
I don't think I would ever recommend installing one in a basement unless there was access available in which you could, if the need ever arose, remove the Garn without destruction of a wall or other part of the dwelling. Minimum workable opening would be at least 7'x7'. That would be my major concern. Number two would be the possibility of moisture from a boil event getting into the house. Three would be dealing with excess heat in the summer, maybe even winter should the unit not be insulated well enough to prevent unwanted heat loss.
Lot's of folks have wood boilers of various types in their homes and find ways to deal with much much more smoke than you would ever get from a Garn due to its negative draft.
I don't think I would ever recommend installing one in a basement unless there was access available in which you could, if the need ever arose, remove the Garn without destruction of a wall or other part of the dwelling. Minimum workable opening would be at least 7'x7'. That would be my major concern. Number two would be the possibility of moisture from a boil event getting into the house. Three would be dealing with excess heat in the summer, maybe even winter should the unit not be insulated well enough to prevent unwanted heat loss.
Lot's of folks have wood boilers of various types in their homes and find ways to deal with much much more smoke than you would ever get from a Garn due to its negative draft.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
There are many people on this site with their boilers inside their homes. If you have the room, have the access and have the desire to keep it inside - just do it. I have mine inside and wouldn't have it any other way. I started my boiler tonight in my t-shirt and it's 9 degrees outside. A Garn is a different beast than the rest of our units but by the time you add storage to an EKO or Tarm it really isn't taking up that much more space. You can put that beast wherever you want and you will be happy, in my humble opinion...
Thanks for all of the input. I am not sure what I am going to do. I like the design of the garn. Its a self containted unit and thats what sold me. Also the idea of being able to stay inside. They are both pro's. The size of the unit and potential future problems are the cons. I also have to check on local codes. thanks again
rvtgr8
New Member
Captain,
I am installing a Garn 1500 in my garage. In order to satisfy code and not cause my warranty to be revoked by Garn, I cannot technically put it into a garage nor have a door directly onto my boiler room. The idea here is that people store flammable liquids in their garages, including the gasoline or diesel in the vehicle tanks. On hot days, the vapors from these liquids can pool on the floor of the garage and when it comes into contact with the open flames of the Garn while loading that there will be an explosion. The solution for me was to sacrifice my garage for the convenience of having my Garn inside of my attached boiler room that is just the right size for two large automobiles. I intend to build an unattached garage next year. I have no desire to negate my fire insurance or void my warranty because well...feces occur!
I am installing a Garn 1500 in my garage. In order to satisfy code and not cause my warranty to be revoked by Garn, I cannot technically put it into a garage nor have a door directly onto my boiler room. The idea here is that people store flammable liquids in their garages, including the gasoline or diesel in the vehicle tanks. On hot days, the vapors from these liquids can pool on the floor of the garage and when it comes into contact with the open flames of the Garn while loading that there will be an explosion. The solution for me was to sacrifice my garage for the convenience of having my Garn inside of my attached boiler room that is just the right size for two large automobiles. I intend to build an unattached garage next year. I have no desire to negate my fire insurance or void my warranty because well...feces occur!
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
Cap1 - Something else to consider when having the GARN in the house, or any other wood burner for that matter, is fuel. I really did not want to load wood into my basement, nor store it there. I have very poor access to my basement from outside, which obviously you can avoid building new. However, you will need to bring in up to a half cord of wood a week (perhaps a little less/longer), so consider that in your planning and decision making.
I think the ideal setup would be to have a "GARN barn" adjacent/attached to the outside wall of the house with access via a fire-rated door (if code requires) from inside the house. That way you keep all the wood outside of the basement. Put the unit with the back wall toward the house, and run the supply and returns into the basement for easy indoor access to pumps and controls. No trenching required, either.
Keep us posted on your decision.
I think the ideal setup would be to have a "GARN barn" adjacent/attached to the outside wall of the house with access via a fire-rated door (if code requires) from inside the house. That way you keep all the wood outside of the basement. Put the unit with the back wall toward the house, and run the supply and returns into the basement for easy indoor access to pumps and controls. No trenching required, either.
Keep us posted on your decision.
Thanks again. I think what it really comes down to is that I would rather not go outside to start a fire. I know I can avoid this with another unit and storage. I do have access to two large stainless steel milk tanks. The only draw back here would be the set up. I am afraid I will have problems installing fittings and welding the tanks because they are made of SS. Thats what draws me to the garn. Its already built for me, storage and all. Because I still am desinging i guess i could incorporate some kind of detached room from the basement. I was worried about heat loos if the unit was not in the home, but from what I have seen insulation will solve that problem.
jim, i have thought along the same adjacent garn barn idea, would be convenient without mess in the house, piping, standby losses and pump requirements, probably saving alot!
i believe that the best idea for me is to have an boiler room attached to the house through a hallway this way the unit is indoors but not in the home and I dont have to go outside to feed it. The way the house is going to lay i can build a room off the house. Three of the sides will be covered by the ground and the other will have a door to bring in wood and store it. Just wondering I plan on using radiant heat in the house, does anyone think that adding heat in the boiler room is a good idea? I figure its not much and it will help keep the room warm. it will also help it recover quickly when I am refilling wood loads.
rvtgr8 said:
rvtg8r,
I'll be following your (mis)adventures closely. Your posts are much appreciated. I'm comparing gas'rs and the garn is one of three I'm considering. The "puffing" on the Garn makes it unsuitable for basement installation in my opinion. I too considered the garage, but knew of the hazards, codes be damned. But I have a desire to live long, so I'm still looking for the perfict gas'r.
Cap'n, something to consider is the fact that you won't be tending to a Garn like a regular wood burning stove. If installed properly, you will only have to tend to it 2 - 3 hrs, once a day.
How about painting some eyes, mouth and teeth on the front of the garn. So it looks your feeding a monster.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
deanco66 said:
2-3 hours every day? That seems like a LOT???? I tend my EKO for about 30-45 minutes per day and the includes a cold start and either one or two reloads. Two to three hours seems excessive for a unit with storage...
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
TCaldwell said:
Precisely. :coolsmile:
If I had the land/house configuration to do that, I would have. I have a "second best" solution. I installed my GARN in a shed behind and attached to my garage/barn/woodshop. I eliminated the underground piping run to that building, at least. I ran the piping to the house through the garage (along the ceiling), and only have a ~60' run of underground piping.
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
captaintone said:
Not necessary. The GARN "room" will stay warm from the radiant heat coming off the loading door and draft fan collar/cleanout area.
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
deanco66 said:
NO need to babysit the GARN. I might spend a total of 15 minutes with it in the AM and another 15 minutes in the PM. I burn twice daily based on my water temp needs (I do not have radiant tubing).
As I'm reading this site, another issue that becomes a factor with indoor / outdoor installations is the water / glycol. Water makes for a better heat transfer medium. If theGarn gets installed in a non heated area you have to consider freezing temps.
This reduces the overall efficiency of the out building Garm system as a whole.
This reduces the overall efficiency of the out building Garm system as a whole.
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
Der Fiur Meister said:
Glycol in a GARN is not a fait accompli. I do not run glycol in my GARN. I have an electric coil (3 actually) in my GARN for emergency backup freeze protection, and will be adding 150k Btuh propane fired backup input to the GARN next year. It is a matter of personal choice and useage planning that will determine the need, or lack thereof, for anti-freeze protection.
Jim K in PA said:
You say the loading door will put off heat. I dont know because I dont own one, but from the garn video Mr. Garn prides himself on being able to touch the door because it doesnt get hot. Im sure the unit puts off some kind of heat. and I guess if its enclosed in a room it should stay warm. Another question. Do you think the unit would ever stay warn enough so as I wouldnt have to insulate it? It will be in a concrete or block room.
Jim K in PA
Minister of Fire
captaintone said:
That is the outer door. It is a shell to which is mounted the inner door, and there is an air gap that keeps the outer door cool. Convection across the inner door disk and the air collar around the door opening get plenty warm. My GARN shed is 6x12 and is poorly sealed, and only partially insulated. It is always above 50 degrees in the shed. Sometimes above 70.
did you purposely not insulate the boiler room as much as you could? What I am asking is it there a temp that the unit should stay at or a temp when it would start to lose efficancy?
Cap’n, something to consider is the fact that you won’t be tending to a Garn like a regular wood burning stove. If installed properly, you will only have to tend to it 2 - 3 hrs, once a day.
NO need to babysit the GARN. I might spend a total of 15 minutes with it in the AM and another 15 minutes in the PM. I burn twice daily based on my water temp needs (I do not have radiant tubing).
Thank you Jim! I guess I should've been a little more specific. It is quite easy to tell by watching the Garn video.
NO need to babysit the GARN. I might spend a total of 15 minutes with it in the AM and another 15 minutes in the PM. I burn twice daily based on my water temp needs (I do not have radiant tubing).
Thank you Jim! I guess I should've been a little more specific. It is quite easy to tell by watching the Garn video.
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