My pipes are frozen

For a period in my life I lived in accommodations provided by the company I work for and there were many problems with frozen water pipes. Although most areas of the pipes were well insulated I found that they would most frequently freeze at locations where the pipes came out of the ground, where there was a shut off valve or where there was a elbow in the line.

organic said:

No hot or cold water to our bathroom shower. The temperature has been as low 0 over the last couple of days. I am not sure if they are frozen in the wall or in crawl space below. I had an open vent in the crawl space that I plugged up and insulated today. I now have the floor radiant heat on 70 in the bathroom and I put an electric space heater in the crawl space below the bathroom. It is 35 degrees in the crawl space now.

The piping is all PEX so hopefully it holds up. I shut both the cold an hot water feeds to shower until it thaws out. The hot water to sink was frozen as well but hast since thawed. Now I am just waiting for this Arctic pressure system to pass. We should get up to 29 tomorrow.

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About 2 weeks ago my heating system copper pipe froze and burst on the 2nd floor about 1/2 hr. before I got home from work.. Made quite a mess with all that hot water running down the walls etc.. The pipe jogged out into the void on a gambrel on th 2nd floor and back in, a length of about 5' (yes it was insulated and there for 20+ yrs.).. The plumber ran it inside and I asked if pex would have done that and he said it can also burst.. I am getting him back to add isolation valves to my 2 heating zones so I can shut off a zone and prevent a flood yet maintain my tankless hot water system..

Good Luck!

Ray

For those with forced hot water (hydronic) - check out the ThermGuard unit (just do a search on ThermGuard). Turns on the circ pump for a programmed amount of time. mine is set for one minute every 3 hours. Cost about $70, installed in 10 - 15 minutes. Works.

rickw said:

For those with forced hot water (hydronic) - check out the ThermGuard unit (just do a search on ThermGuard). Turns on the circ pump for a programmed amount of time. mine is set for one minute every 3 hours. Cost about $70, installed in 10 - 15 minutes. Works.

Click to expand...

Not a bad idea Rick I just want to get to the root cause.. Where in eastern Mass. are u located?

Ray

organic said:

No hot or cold water to our bathroom shower. The temperature has been as low 0 over the last couple of days. I am not sure if they are frozen in the wall or in crawl space below. I had an open vent in the crawl space that I plugged up and insulated today. I now have the floor radiant heat on 70 in the bathroom and I put an electric space heater in the crawl space below the bathroom. It is 35 degrees in the crawl space now.

The piping is all PEX so hopefully it holds up. I shut both the cold an hot water feeds to shower until it thaws out. The hot water to sink was frozen as well but hast since thawed. Now I am just waiting for this Arctic pressure system to pass. We should get up to 29 tomorrow.

Click to expand...

I would assume the PEX won't burst. It has a some expansion to it. I would also imagine it isn't frozen in the wall, if you have no domestic plumbing in an outside wall, which you shouldn't. Certainly a no-no in the Arctic. As mentioned, throw some heat in your crawl space, its gotta be there.

Frostbit said:

organic said:

No hot or cold water to our bathroom shower. The temperature has been as low 0 over the last couple of days. I am not sure if they are frozen in the wall or in crawl space below. I had an open vent in the crawl space that I plugged up and insulated today. I now have the floor radiant heat on 70 in the bathroom and I put an electric space heater in the crawl space below the bathroom. It is 35 degrees in the crawl space now.

The piping is all PEX so hopefully it holds up. I shut both the cold an hot water feeds to shower until it thaws out. The hot water to sink was frozen as well but hast since thawed. Now I am just waiting for this Arctic pressure system to pass. We should get up to 29 tomorrow.

Click to expand...

I would assume the PEX won't burst. It has a some expansion to it. I would also imagine it isn't frozen in the wall, if you have no domestic plumbing in an outside wall, which you shouldn't. Certainly a no-no in the Arctic. As mentioned, throw some heat in your crawl space, its gotta be there.

Click to expand...

All you ever wanted to know about PEX: http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html

Ray

If the sink and shower are a long distance from the hot water tank and they're both fed from the same lines, you might consider a small recirc pump under the sink. They draw a tiny amount of water from the hot line and pump it into the cold line so that you don't have to wait so long for the hot water to run hot. Aside from the initial cash outlay, they are pretty much cost neutral since the amount of water you would otherwise run into the drain waiting for it to get hot draws about the same amount of hot water out of the tank. The unit shuts off when it senses warm water so that the cold water line doesn't get too warm.

pex should hold up well
You should insulate the crawl space. Lately we spray foam the foundation walls of the crawl. makes the whole space nice and warm

good luck

Whatever you do, don't do what the guy in Attleboro, MA did the other day. Apparently he fired up a propane heater in his basement to thaw out the pipes. He ended up combusting the hardwood floors above and burning his house down.

Next time if you can find the froze up section,use a good blowdryer,the misses won't mind.It won't harm the pipes.
Rusty

When I lived 30 miles from the Canada border, I used electric heat tape on the difficult to protect water pipes. I used ones with built-in thermostats to turn on when it got cold. Never had a repeat problem.

Anyway, we later moved south by another 30 miles, where it is warmer. ;>)

raybonz said:

organic said:

No hot or cold water to our bathroom shower. The temperature has been as low 0 over the last couple of days. I am not sure if they are frozen in the wall or in crawl space below. I had an open vent in the crawl space that I plugged up and insulated today. I now have the floor radiant heat on 70 in the bathroom and I put an electric space heater in the crawl space below the bathroom. It is 35 degrees in the crawl space now.

The piping is all PEX so hopefully it holds up. I shut both the cold an hot water feeds to shower until it thaws out. The hot water to sink was frozen as well but hast since thawed. Now I am just waiting for this Arctic pressure system to pass. We should get up to 29 tomorrow.

Click to expand...

About 2 weeks ago my heating system copper pipe froze and burst on the 2nd floor about 1/2 hr. before I got home from work.. Made quite a mess with all that hot water running down the walls etc.. The pipe jogged out into the void on a gambrel on th 2nd floor and back in, a length of about 5' (yes it was insulated and there for 20+ yrs.).. The plumber ran it inside and I asked if pex would have done that and he said it can also burst.. I am getting him back to add isolation valves to my 2 heating zones so I can shut off a zone and prevent a flood yet maintain my tankless hot water system..

Good Luck!

Ray

Click to expand...

Just happened to me yesterday - Three story colonial and the third floor is not used much (play room) in the winter. The temperature was set for 50° but the door was left open letting heat from the second floor rise so the heat didn't run much. One side of the room has the heating pipe running through the eave and it froze - had to cut out better than 20' of pipe to get all of the splits. Spent eight hours crawling around in the eave to run and sweat the pipe.

I need to look into a thermostat that will run the zone for a few minutes an hour before it happens again.

On the bright side, the pellet stove barely worked up a sweat to keep the family room (over a garage) toasty warm.

Aaron

Taunton, Ma

Aaron Pasteris said:

Just happened to me yesterday - Three story colonial and the third floor is not used much (play room) in the winter. The temperature was set for 50° but the door was left open letting heat from the second floor rise so the heat didn't run much. One side of the room has the heating pipe running through the eave and it froze - had to cut out better than 20' of pipe to get all of the splits. Spent eight hours crawling around in the eave to run and sweat the pipe.

I need to look into a thermostat that will run the zone for a few minutes an hour before it happens again.

On the bright side, the pellet stove barely worked up a sweat to keep the family room (over a garage) toasty warm.

Aaron

Taunton, Ma

Click to expand...

Try a ThermGuard to run the zone a few minutes an hour.

www.bearmountaindesign.com

You can search the forum to find how well it works!

Cheers,
John

The bear mountain device looks like it would do the trick.

I try to put one together from my junk box - even if I need to order parts, it would only be abut $20 to replicate
(I am not implying they are gouging just I don't need to pay the design costs)

Aaron

A hairdryer can work really well. I have heat tape on mine, it really helps.

LLigetfa said:

If the sink and shower are a long distance from the hot water tank and they're both fed from the same lines, you might consider a small recirc pump under the sink. They draw a tiny amount of water from the hot line and pump it into the cold line so that you don't have to wait so long for the hot water to run hot. Aside from the initial cash outlay, they are pretty much cost neutral since the amount of water you would otherwise run into the drain waiting for it to get hot draws about the same amount of hot water out of the tank. The unit shuts off when it senses warm water so that the cold water line doesn't get too warm.

Click to expand...

I vote for the above mentioned unit very efficient and added benefit of instant hot water, as a plumber in CT. I just had some major freeze ups this week end and the damage that accrues can be horrendous. Fast action in a frozen pipe situation is important hair dryers are ok when kept in your hand and under a watchful eye, I sometimes use my torch but a old house with furry friend's running in and out of walls with dryer lint, ,scraps of clothes wood shavings anything that make their nest can ignite with a quick lick of a open flame. Copper can be thawed with a pipe thawing machine (low voltage high amperage current pasted through the pipes (very nice to keep from opening walls and ceilings) Pex has to be thawed by heating the area that has the frozen pipe in it. Sometimes I think it helps when a pipe ruptures it wakes the owner up to fix that area that froze and keep it from happening again. Of course a power outage doesn't help, or running out of oil. 30 yrs ago I worked 3 winters in a row with freeze ups form wood stove and Kero Sun heater syndrome "how did it freeze its 75` in here" Well your Hearts at 98.6` but your little toe can get frost bite so the other unit that's mentioned would really help. To end this post "don't save on oil only to pay the Plumber"

If you have a vacuum cleaner that blows, blowing air into the wall is much safer than heat guns and torches but it does take longer.

I went through my plumbing and eliminated all possibilities for frozen pipes unless my house freezes up. I now have no pipes in exterior walls and they are all as far in from the foundation as possible. My well is in my attached garage and I have a shut off and low point drain to all my hose bibs. I use no heat trace.

I wouldn't use heat tape. It's awesome stuff in the lab, but I have heard of some brands causing house fires. I personally wouldn't be able to sleep with that stuff snugged away heating up inside my walls, but I guess I'm a wooss anyway

My pipes freeze in runs through the walls where a slight air leak turns the space into a freezer box. I have fixed this a couple times with Great Stuff foam.

My pipes are all in my basement, not in the walls. *edit* (the heat taped pipes)