Not saving all that much money!

After reading the thread, I'm with firefighterjake and others - seasoned wood is a relative term, and it sounds like yours is less seasoned than more. I found that if I could get a large number of small splits (1 to 2 inch) criss crossed into the stove during the first fire, I could get the stove hotter. Then the next load of small splits would take quicker, burn hotter, and the stove would regain the higher temps (600-750 on my insert)

I am in a similar situation this year, my wood was "summered" vice actually being seasoned for more than one season. I often have to place a stick or two of kindling under a fresh load of wood to raise it up off the coals to get the fire to restart - it lets the air circulate better, and in essence the better air circulation dries out the wood in the firebox quickly. Be careful though, as I have seen mine climb really quick when I placed a few good sized splits into it, raised up on kindling, once the flue and stove were primed.

Getting higher temps on the stove will pay off fourfold in the heat you get into the room - radiant heat output (in a perfect world) is a fourfold product of the change in temp. A 20% increase in absolute temperature (measured in Kelvin, so 400 F increased to 570 F is a 20% Kelvin increase) will get you double the heat output. So, to get more heat out of the wood, burn it hotter - if you can raise the newly added wood above the coal bed with a couple sticks of kindling each time, you may get that heat you are looking for. The stove isn't a perfect emitter, but you get the idea that higher temps give disproportional increase in radiant heat output. A similar result will occur for convective heat as well (different ratios and formulas, but still disproportionate to temp increase). Someone out there will correct me if I'm out to lunch I suspect. :roll:

That has been my trick this winter for dealing with my less than seasoned wood. My next trick will be buying 4 cords (the 4ft x 4ft x 8ft kind, in case there is any question) in February to pile up in my yard for next year.

I concur. Your wood is not fully seasoned. Splitting it lets the fire cook the moisture out faster, but wastes all that energy. Bigger pieces of wood should ignite as easily as small ones. With dry wood, you'll burn half as much wood and have the thermostat up to 75. Or something like that.

yup, it all depends on your situiation..My old not well insulated house would cost me over $3k to heat with just oil..Burning wood now I spend about $600 in oil..I have my own woodlot so I dont have to buy wood!

forby said:

I suppose that my wood may not be perfectly dry, but I have recorded 15-20% on the ends. I didn't really pay attention to the inside readings.

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Take one of those pieces, split it in half and take an inside reading, I bet your meter will be over 30%.

I'll agree with the comments you have already received.

However, comparing to natural gas is probably the hardest comparison today. As I understand, NG prices are down considerably and it's the cheapest "utility" fuel. Most of us are not fortunate enough to have NG as an alternative. So your savings will be less than those of us who only have electricity or propane as an alternative. Especially if you have to buy your wood.

Many people have commented that wood heat is a lifestyle. We do it because we like to get out and get our own wood and we enjoy the woodstove. I sit down in front of the stove to read a book and sit there watching the flames instead of reading, LOL. OTOH, I never spent time watching the heat pump

Ken

Others, with more experience than I, have already talked about the amount of wood you are burning. I want to add some opinion about costs of burning wood. I am in the process of doing all the work necessary to install a new wood stove in my new house late this summer. The ceiling support box is in place and yesterday I talked with a local roofer about cutting a hole in the roof and building a chase around the stainless steel chimney. This coming week I will start laying out the hearth. I figure the total cost of the finished stove installation will be $5,500+/-. I may want or need a splitter, etc.

My house has circulating hot water baseboard heat with a very efficient propane boiler. The propane, which is stored in a buried 1,000 gallon tank, is also used for the stove top, clothes dryer, hot water and the barbecues. I burn about 950 gallons of propane each year. This year will probably be closer to 1,100 gallons.

My wood stove is not intended to be my main source of heat. It is being installed because I like the look and feel of wood heat. If I end up saving a few dollars in propane each year, fine. However looking at it realistically, the total cost of cutting, splitting, purchasing, storing, hauling and just dealing with wood will not save me any money into the forseeable future. But I am going to burn wood because I like its effects.

I am no longer a "spring chicken" and am getting "longer in the tooth". Wood burning is one of the two expensive pleasures I allow myself.

forby said:

I do agree about the "experience" of wood burning. It's worth the price. Even the comments from the ladies at the local pub commenting "have you been hitting the gym"!
. . ..

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Hmmm . . . can't say that any ladies ever comment about my physique . . . probably any good that get from working on the wood is cancelled out by all the donuts and Little Debbie snackcakes that I eat during the day working.

Actually, all kidding aside (well some kidding) . . . my wife has said my gut looks a bit smaller . . . maybe it's time for her to have her vision checked.

Since your house is being kept significantly warmer with wood than NG, I'd say you're saving a heck of a lot more than you think...how much extra gas would you have to burn in order to maintain those higher interior temps without the wood stove?

Having skipped a bunch of posts I run the risk of being redundant here, but :

- The more wood you can scrounge, the lower your costs. But remember that nothing is actually free. The wood you don't pay money for is costing you in sweat equity, time and possibly weara nd tear on your vehicle if you haul it yourself.
- Definitely something wrong with your consumption. Being a 20 year old house you may have drafts you're unaware of. Houses can settle alot on 20 years. Might want to have an energy audit done. Check the other things people have suggested for your stove and wood...heck, go buy a couple bundles of dry wood from the supermarket and use that exclusively for a couple days, you ought to see a difference in how long a full load lasts you right there...that way you cna at least eliminate the wood, or focus on it...depends on your results.

Good luck.

If your stove is like an Oslo, it has two plates that lie flat on top of the air tubes. If you stove got too hot, it's possible to literally melt a hole right through them.

I had to replace these plates. If they are damaged or not installed, the stove doesn't put out anything for heat. It goes right up the flue and you'll be pushing wood through it as fast as you can.

So, just a thought that you might want to check and see if there is something wrong with those plates.

I would blame the wood as well. I installed our insert just before Christmas and was fortunate to have a small amount of wood left over from last year. It was sold as seasoned but had been on our back porch for 14 months. It was nice and easy to burn, throw it in seal the door, adjust the air down five minutes later from full open to full closed in one step. Well it was nice while it lasted, now using newer wood delivered this fall. Needs to be split small, you can hear it hissing when you open the door, need to use kindling if it drops to less then 300, helps to reload two splits at at time, often tops out around 400 (rather than cruising at 500-600).

Moisture meter is making a big difference. Anything more than 25% gets loosely stacked in the basement for several weeks. Some of it is over the maximum reading of 45%, I feel like throwing that stuff outside for next year.

Poor wood is a big pain, with lots of work you can make it work.

Kevin.

I'm no expert, but have been burning wood for a long time.

I love the wood fire, I hate spending money and I want to get off the grid as much as possible.

Wood burning is a lifestyle, like the man above posted.

I purely enjoy seeing my NG bill at $30-$45 in February.

In reality, NG is a very reasonable fuel - in terms of cost per BTU - in most areas.

So the savings over NG is not going to be anything special unless one cuts their own wood.

NG never went up as high as oil did.

"I bought 4 cords of “seasoned” wood in July for use this year for $470."

Um, are you sure you're talking the same "cords" as we are? That sounds more like a face cord price than a full cord. Full cords of ostensibly "seasoned" wood in most places are up around $300.

A face cord here is $80 to $100. Delivery and stacking is extra.

I won't buy it as long as it's free and it's always free.

Also another consideration, We installed a new heatpump several years ago. $5000 or so. The saving of wear and tear on heating eqp has to factor into savings also

gyrfalcon said:

"I bought 4 cords of “seasoned” wood in July for use this year for $470."

Um, are you sure you're talking the same "cords" as we are? That sounds more like a face cord price than a full cord. Full cords of ostensibly "seasoned" wood in most places are up around $300.

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Around here, wood is going for $60-80/truckload (probably a half cord). I've seen some full cords advertised as low as $100.

Also another consideration, We installed a new heatpump several years ago. $5000 or so. The saving of wear and tear on heating eqp has to factor into savings also

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Yes. I hate to hear the heat pump grinding away in cold weather. I just paid $800 to replace just the blower motor on the A/C-heat pump. Another outfit wanted $900 just for the motor.

Ken

mayhem said:

Since your house is being kept significantly warmer with wood than NG, I'd say you're saving a heck of a lot more than you think...how much extra gas would you have to burn in order to maintain those higher interior temps without the wood stove?
- The more wood you can scrounge, the lower your costs. But remember that nothing is actually free. The wood you don't pay money for is costing you in sweat equity, time and possibly weara nd tear on your vehicle if you haul it yourself.
- Definitely something wrong with your consumption. Being a 20 year old house you may have drafts you're unaware of. Houses can settle alot on 20 years. Might want to have an energy audit done. Check the other things people have suggested for your stove and wood...heck, go buy a couple bundles of dry wood from the supermarket and use that exclusively for a couple days, you ought to see a difference in how long a full load lasts you right there...that way you cna at least eliminate the wood, or focus on it...depends on your results.Good luck.

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Forby, try all of the above advice, especially the quality and seasoning of your wood.

From Ken: check the Oslo out completely: be sure the air control operates fully on and fully down. The "cat box" can easily be unbolted to see the simple mechanism. Powered graphite on the surfaces.

Check the top plate and tubes: in place, secure, and undamaged.

P.S. Don't underestimate physique ! Look at Jake .

When you start the fires give the wood a chance to get burning, get the top temperature to at least 500 F....then damp the air.

Finally: we burn mixed hardwoods like Sealcove and most in coastal Maine. "Soft" hardwoods like Red Maple and Paper Birch burn faster ( less BTUs/pound ); the Red oak ( a "hard", dense, heavy ) hardwood we save for lower temps and longer heating fires when it gets to the singles and below. There are few of them in our coastal woodlot ( Sealcove's fault !! ). Oaks never really season completely because of the density. You need to burn them "over" soft, faster burning species to get them coaling. Try what others have suggested: even get those free pallets to break up for great kindling. Or ask for softwood scraps at construction sites. Most pallets are very well kiln dried 'seasoned' oak that you can pickup at most box stores such as WalMart. Never buy those silly plastic wraps of wood

The Oslo has been a super wood heater ( except for the ash spilling front door ). Give it time. NG is probably the only fossil that comes close to the BTU to BTU cost of buying good firewood. We use LP for the tankless water, cooking, the dryer, and a space heater for 1/2 the house when out of town for more than a day. LP is a mafia cowboy $$$$. We've never used more than 200 gallons/year ( we are D.I.N.K.s .)
Have you checked the efficiency and usage of your gas appliances ?

Enjoy the wood heat.

Edthedawg said:

Kinda surprised nobody mentioned this, but... what would your gas bills be like if you heated to current temps (73 you said?) with just gas? Probably a heckuva lot higher than your $1350/season @ 67. I certain't couldn't predict w/ any accuracy, but if you had to run 20% more gas (a vastly conservative estimate, I'm guessing) then your comparative expense is more like $1620, and your comparative savings just jumped considerably.

And not for nothin', but using less petroleum / NG / propane - all sounds like a good idea to me, even if the costs don't necessarily balance out all the time.

You are in your first year of burning a big stove pretty hard - so the wood consumption this season has to be considered your baseline. You can only improve in future years as you master your craft

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Also, I suspect that if you compared heating dgree days this year compared to last, you'd find they are up substantially from last year. Also, heating degree days I don't believe take into account the wind factor which might have even further increased this years heating needs. Using less NG also reduces your CO2 footprint, always a beneficial aspect of wood burning.

jpl1nh said:

You are in your first year of burning a big stove pretty hard - so the wood consumption this season has to be considered your baseline. You can only improve in future years as you master your craft

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Also, I suspect that if you compared heating dgree days this year compared to last, you'd find they are up substantially from last year. Also, heating degree days I don't believe take into account the wind factor which might have even further increased this years heating needs. Using less NG also reduces your CO2 footprint, always a beneficial aspect of wood burning.[/quote]

Right: the longest, windiest, coldest for the longest ( many "-ests" ) late fall/early winter since we built here in 1999 . Wind has a lot to do with your heating demands. There have also been more blowdowns here than in any other 3 month period for us--usually shallow rooted spruce and fir.