Frozen Wood

jwelfeld · Jan 28, 2009

Hi all,

I could use some help (first post long time reader). I purchased a cord of wood from a new wood guy (the guy I have been using just up and disappeared) I needed one more cord to get get me through the rest of the season. They dropped the wood off late and at first look it was pretty good, Oak, Maple and Ash mixture, but once I started stacking it I realized that a lot of it is frozen. I have never dealt with frozen wood so I was wondering what to do with it ? Will It thaw out and be OK ? will there be to much moisture in it ? Can I just leave it stacked and covered (over the top) and wait it out ? It's still below freezing here on alot of days, but should be averaging above freezing pretty soon. I guess I could bring some into my garage to thaw it out. so will it thaw and be OK what should I look for,

This is my first season of burning and it's been great up until this episode. I installed a Regency I2400 insert in my exisiting fireplace over the summer and have cut my oil usage by at least 1/2 this season so far... Love burning, just need to learn how to pick a firewood guy

Thanks in advance...

Joe W

fyrwoodguy · Jan 28, 2009

i try and tell all my new customers to buy twice as much as they need the first year.that way they can buy green wood and burn dry wood.
food for thought if you have room and are going to burn wood every year,and can afford it.

jwelfeld · Jan 28, 2009

I like that idea, but probably cant afford to buy twice. I originally purchased 3 cords and I had about 1/2 already. I had a little over a cord left so I thought I would get one more to get me through.

And I will bring some wood in and let it thaw, also thanks for the tip on splitting. some of does need to be split.

LLigetfa · Jan 28, 2009

I don't understand "frozen". Wood will be at the ambient temperature of where it's stored. If it's freezing cold out, the wood will be frozen. My wood is frozen right now.

How can you tell it's frozen unless you stick a thermometer in it? To me, it all looks the same until I bring it in the house and a bit of frost forms on it from the humidity in the house. If it was wet when it froze it could be coated in ice. Then it depends how wet it was when it froze.

jwelfeld · Jan 28, 2009

Hi,

Yea, I guesss Frozen was the wrong choice of wording. meanng ice on the wood. most likely from wet then cold weather...

Backwoods Savage · Jan 28, 2009

Welcome to the forum Joe.

From that description, it sounds like the wood got rained on (freezing rain) and then it turned cold. That usually won't cause much of a problem but if the wood has been sitting in water, you won't be able to burn it for sure.

I'll also chip in and suggest that you get all of next winter's wood supply on hand no later than April. Get it split and stacked, preferably in the sun but for sure where wind can hit it. Don't cover it (leaving uncovered allows better evaporation of moisture) until late in the fall or early winter before snow sits on it. Then cover the top only. If you will do this you will also find that you burn much less wood and get a lot more heat from it.

Good luck.

Hankovitch · Jan 28, 2009

Hello Frozen Wood Man,
If the wood simply has water on it (from rain or melted snow) - this should not be problematic.
When purchasing wood for burning you needn't ask if it is dry (they will always tell you it is dry!). Just look at the cut ends of the wood pieces. If the wood has what appear to be a multitude of slitsand/or gaps where moisture has come out of the wood and the wood fibers have separated, then it is at least somewhat dry. If the wood appears to be flush (absence of slits, cracks), then the wood is NOT dry, and you will use a lot of energy just to drive off the water before you can burn the 'wood'.
This Summer, cut some wood of your own, split it, weigh it immediately, and record the weight on the ends of several pieces. Dry it for a while - 1 week, 3 weeks, 2 months - and record the weight of the pieces through the Summer. It will be an interesting and revealing experiment.
Let us assume the cord of wood you purchased is wet enough that it still has 400 pounds of water in it. (probably a VERY conservative number for an entire cord of freshly cut wood....freshly cut wood can be up to 80% water, and 'seasoned' or 'dry' wood will typically still contain 15-20% water).
See the link http://www.i4at.org/surv/woodburn.htm
Thought I'd try a fun calculation here to determine how much energy you will use just to drive off the water, and thereafter allow the wood to burn..
To heat water requires 1 BTU per degree per pound. Thus to heat one pound of water in the wood from 32 degrees F to 212 degrees F (to the temperature where the water will begin to boil away) will require 180 BTU per pound of water.
This means that you will use 72,000 BTU for the 400 pounds of water in the wood just to get the water to 212 degrees F.
But the water is still there!
To convert 1 pound of liquid water at 212 degrees F to one pound of steam at 212 degrees F will require 970.4 BTU....really.
For the 400 pounds of water, you will need to use 388,000 BTU to complete driving off the water.
Or, for a cord of wood which still has 400 pounds of water in it, you will utilize 460,000 BTU. This is 460,000 BTU which is NOT available to heat your home!............this is why it is best to dry the wood.

Also, you can purchase a unit to test the moisture content of the wood you purchase, if you want to get high-tech.
See this link......and there are many other sources.
http://www.drillspot.com/products/437287/Extech_MO210_Digital_Moisture_Meter

Sincerely,

Hankovitch in SW Wisconsin

fyrwoodguy · Jan 28, 2009

Hankovitch said:
Hello Frozen Wood Man,
If the wood simply has water on it (from rain or melted snow) - this should not be problematic.
When purchasing wood for burning you needn't ask if it is dry (they will always tell you it is dry!). Just look at the cut ends of the wood pieces. If the wood has what appear to be a multitude of slitsand/or gaps where moisture has come out of the wood and the wood fibers have separated, then it is at least somewhat dry. If the wood appears to be flush (absence of slits, cracks), then the wood is NOT dry, and you will use a lot of energy just to drive off the water before you can burn the 'wood'.
This Summer, cut some wood of your own, split it, weigh it immediately, and record the weight on the ends of several pieces. Dry it for a while - 1 week, 3 weeks, 2 months - and record the weight of the pieces through the Summer. It will be an interesting and revealing experiment.
Let us assume the cord of wood you purchased is wet enough that it still has 400 pounds of water in it. (probably a VERY conservative number for an entire cord of freshly cut wood....freshly cut wood can be up to 80% water, and 'seasoned' or 'dry' wood will typically still contain 15-20% water).
See the link http://www.i4at.org/surv/woodburn.htm
Thought I'd try a fun calculation here to determine how much energy you will use just to drive off the water, and thereafter allow the wood to burn..
To heat water requires 1 BTU per degree per pound. Thus to heat one pound of water in the wood from 32 degrees F to 212 degrees F (to the temperature where the water will begin to boil away) will require 180 BTU per pound of water.
This means that you will use 72,000 BTU for the 400 pounds of water in the wood just to get the water to 212 degrees F.
But the water is still there!
To convert 1 pound of liquid water at 212 degrees F to one pound of steam at 212 degrees F will require 970.4 BTU....really.
For the 400 pounds of water, you will need to use 388,000 BTU to complete driving off the water.
Or, for a cord of wood which still has 400 pounds of water in it, you will utilize 460,000 BTU. This is 460,000 BTU which is NOT available to heat your home!............this is why it is best to dry the wood.

Also, you can purchase a unit to test the moisture content of the wood you purchase, if you want to get high-tech.
See this link......and there are many other sources.
http://www.drillspot.com/products/437287/Extech_MO210_Digital_Moisture_Meter

Sincerely,

Hankovitch in SW Wisconsin

:bug: excellent post !

Hunderliggur · Sep 27, 2011

Hankovitch said:
Hello Frozen Wood Man,
...
Thought I'd try a fun calculation here to determine how much energy you will use just to drive off the water, and thereafter allow the wood to burn..
To heat water requires 1 BTU per degree per pound. Thus to heat one pound of water in the wood from 32 degrees F to 212 degrees F (to the temperature where the water will begin to boil away) will require 180 BTU per pound of water.
This means that you will use 72,000 BTU for the 400 pounds of water in the wood just to get the water to 212 degrees F.
But the water is still there!
To convert 1 pound of liquid water at 212 degrees F to one pound of steam at 212 degrees F will require 970.4 BTU....really.
For the 400 pounds of water, you will need to use 388,000 BTU to complete driving off the water.
Or, for a cord of wood which still has 400 pounds of water in it, you will utilize 460,000 BTU. This is 460,000 BTU which is NOT available to heat your home!............this is why it is best to dry the wood.

In addition, it takes 144 BTU/pound H2O to thaw ice. So for the 400 pounds of water we have an additional 144*400= 57,600 BTU of energy required to transform the water, for a total heat loss of about 520K BTU. If I can store my wood to burn in a non-freezing environment, I will automatically save almost 60K BTU/cord even if it is wet. Not to mention the fact that it burns better in my wood gasification boiler when it is not frozen (even better when it is dry!).

Hankovitch · Sep 27, 2011

Hello Orlan,
For those of us up here above the arctic circle (that what my wonderful father says about my wife and I living in Wisconsin while he and my mother live in Mississippi..!!) you make a very important addition to my 'calculation'. Thank you for pointing that out. Do you have images of your Wind Power unit(s)? I am interested. (([email protected])) We live in a long shallow valley, and in fact our location is at one of the worst spots within that valley for WIND. Bottom line is that in our location utilizing wind as a renewable source of energy is not a wise choice. Oh well, we can still ooh-and-aah over other people's installations and be happy for them. We do have 120 acres, but it is 99.9% farmland, no trees to cut......however.....we have a source of $10.00 per cord of kiln-dried wood which is forklift-loaded into our horse trailer in three 4x4x4 "boxes", I drive home and unload them with our Bobcat, and the whole process takes about 45 minutes.....SWEET. And that wood would wind up in a landfill if we did not 'buy' it....and we recycle the nails each Spring for nearly the cost of the wood! Pretty cheap way to heat our Barn-Home using our GARN 2000 WHS.

dannynelson77 · Sep 27, 2011

Wow talking about bringing a thread back to life......you guys realize this is over 2.5 years old??

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Frozen Wood

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