Any Napoleon 1402 owners?

kbrown · Feb 1, 2009

I am hoping that all the fellow Napoleon 1402 owners can chime in on this... We have been using ours for the past month and now I have some questions. I apologize if any of these have been addressed in past threads, but I couldn't really find any when searching. So, here are my questions:

1. Glass keeps getting dirty. We have been burning hot fires (450F stovetop) and notice that there is still a distinct "V" shape pattern that develops on the glass door where the only clear part is the inside of the 'V'. Seems like I have to clean the door every other day. I can see the air wash when I open the door and small amounts of smoke develop and it is washed straight down. Wondering if it has to do with the placement of the two front firebricks? Those bricks have a cut out that allow them to fit around a metal piece that is in the middle along the front edge. Is it possible they have the wrong bricks? The manual only shows bricks numbered as 1 along the front and do not mention anything about it.

2. What is the correct loading method? north south or east west. (or doesn't it matter?) I watched a video that was suggested on another thread about the general usage of a wood stove and found it very informative, but wondered if there are any specifics to Napoleon. Again, their manual is very vague; I always like to get real world feedback.

3. Are we running it hot enough? Using the Rutland thermometer, we just stick it to the stove top in the middle and it seems to run between 350-450 when it's in the secondary burn after loading it with 5-6 splits. When it gets to 500 or 550 it seems to be too hot and according to the thermometer layout, thats reaching the too hot operational area.

...insert was professionally installed btw.

Well, that's about it for now. I really appreciate any comments from everyone who has been running one of these, even just explaining what someone's normal routine is. I still haven't gotten the guts up to do an overnight burn, but certainly want to once I feel confident that we are using this correctly. The forums have been great in finding information! Love the site!

>correction..the bricks along the front are labeled as "2" in the manual, but still don't represent anything with any type of cutout, just a rectangular brick. Also, the vertical bricks on either side of the door look like the factory took one brick and snapped it in two to create the bricks labeled as 8 & 9. Does anyone else see this in their own setup?

begreen · Feb 1, 2009

Assuming that the wood being burnt is well seasoned, this sounds like the fire is being kept a bit too cool. Try getting the stove hotter. The magnetic thermometer ranges are for when it's mounted on a single-wall flue pipe. They are not as relevant when measuring stove top temps on a steel stove. Try burning with the stove around 5-600 and I think the soot on the glass will burn off.

As for the bricks, can you post a picture or two of what you're seeing in your stove?

esh21167 · Feb 2, 2009

I installed my 1402 in September and recall the manual being unclear concerning the bricks. I placed one tall narrow brick on the left (hinge) side of the door and one shorter narrow one on the right (handle) side. Then there were two of the same size that went across the front with a space between them for the air inlet. There is no brick on the right side above the door latch. I also remember that those four bricks seemed, like you said, broken halves. They had one edge that was very rough and I put that away from the door opening. I'm not sure how your bricks are installed, but if you are blocking the air inlet, I suspect that could interfere with the wash and keep the glass dirty.

I was afraid of that thermometer reading above 450 at first as well. But when I get the insert up to around 550 (thermometer on the top shelf in the middle) and then close the air all the way down, the flame is very lazy, much of the flame is clear, and the wood glows bright red/orange. The secondaries shoot out like crazy under these conditions and the ceramic top baffles are bright red/orange right by the air holes. The only time I get black glass is when I burn with wood very near, or sometimes even touching, the glass and the air cannot "clean" the window.

When you load up for an overnight burn, don't pack the stove too full or leave it unattended with the air wide open for more than about 10-15 minutes. For my first overnight attempt, I loaded wood up against the baffles, left the air open, and came back about 20-25 minutes later. The thermometer was almost at 800! I closed the air completely and the temp dropped to 600 within 10 minutes. Since then I only pile wood up to the top of the door as stated in the manual. Even doing that, I once walked away for about 1/2 hour and again the temp was approaching 750. Now I stay with the insert until it reaches about 600, then damper down for overnight.

I think you're right that the N/S versus E/W is a general woodburning topic, but I've found that to get things going from nothing or if there are only a few coals that N/S gets the fire going more quickly because the air moves through the spaces between the logs. E/W seems to burn slower as that first log slows the air flow. Usually, I'll stagger the logs like a jenga stack, and often load some diagonally also. (Good for those I've cut too long).

Hope this helps.

carl1979 · Feb 2, 2009

Hi, I have the same Napoleon stove and thermostat and have been burning 24/7 for the past few months

(Glass keeps getting dirty. We have been burning hot fires (450F stove top]

450 is not very hot I try to keep mine in the 600 and 700 range as much as I can, it regularly climbs to 800 and 900 before backing down. from what I've read on this forum you need to get to 1400 degrees before you might damage something
The other thing you want to check is that your baffles are pushed all the way back. the air flow doe'st work right .When there not and that also cause's smoke to spill into the room when you open the stove door

[What is the correct loading method? north south or east west. (or doest’t it matter]

north south is a faster hotter burn for maximum heat in the shortest time . east west for slower less hot burns example overnight fires when you want to have coals left to start the morning fire.

I don't think the firebricks will fit in any way other then the correct way I don't think that's a problem just run it hotter and don't hesitate to run it overnight its completely safe . and a wonderful heat producer.

torgo · Feb 2, 2009

I've had my 1402 for 2 months. I do notice it likes to run hot with a good size load and the glass stays cleaner. I get a slight haze on the glass if I put a smaller load in. The manual suggests 500- 600 flue temps but you can not get a flue temp on that insert. Most of my wood is cut too long for a W/E load but I was not happy the way it burned. I just burn N/S. The bricks sound right. I have them the same way.

kbrown · Feb 2, 2009

Thanks so much for the advice, it's exactly what I have come to expect from this site! I do agree now that we are not running hot enough. As for the thermometer, what would be the suggested one to use? It does seem funny that flue temps are listed in a manual for an insert...you can't get to the flue! Anyone try using one of those non-contact laser ones? I noticed one on sale at my local Harbor Freight store that has an upper limit of 980F and considered this as it would be interesting to measure both the insert as well as areas around it. Our wood is well seasoned; mix of oak, maple, and ash with bits of birch. I will certainly try to post a couple of pics of the front bricks once I figure out how to do that here. Thanks again for all the helpful advice. This site is priceless.

chachdave · Feb 10, 2009

First year with my Napoleon 1402 and love it. My wife is so jealous. I got a wood rack on side of garage that holds about 2 cords of wood and its covered. The rest of my wood was stacked in front yard uncovered. I started with the uncovered wood and the door got a little dirty. When I got to the wood that was covered the glass stayed a lot cleaner. I'm going to be doubling the size of wood shed this summer. I like to put 2 or 3 pieces of wood east/west depending on there size, then on top 2 or 3 going north/south. You want the top row to be north/south so the logs don't fall against the door. You want to make sure the chimney cap is not restricting the air flow too.

jjhof0306 · Feb 10, 2009

Burn the stove hotter. I don't back down on the primary air until it hits at least 500, usually 550, and on a cold night I'll let her go to 600-650. The soot will burn off. You might get a whitish film on the window. I don't bother cleaning it any longer as I can see the flame well enough to see how the fire is doing.

You need to burn it hot to keep the stovepipe clean. I did my chimney for the first time on Sunday and had hardly any creosote.

The bricks were a pain in the butt to install. I had my baffles backward for about a month.

On a really cold night with sub zero temps, I wish I had gone with the NC30. Otherwise, this stove keeps it nice and toasty in our poorly insulated 1500 +/- cape. I'm happy with the Napoleon.

LONDONDERRY · Feb 10, 2009

Your not running the stove hot enought I have the same stove and the way I operate it is during the morning I build a hot fire let it reach 650 to let the flue liner warm up, then I let the wood coal down then keep adding wodd to it. I work all day, which I'm at right now. So my wife keeps the stove running all day at 600. The only issue is you almost have to been home all day to keep the temp that high. When i get home I like the stove to run between 600-650. Thne 30 minutes before we head off to bed I load the stove up with wood, wait until the temp climbs to upper 600's and then watch and wait until the temp drops and go to be. Oh and we run the stove all the time with the dampener fully open. This helps with minimizing creosote buildup.

jjhof0306 · Feb 10, 2009

Londonderry - do you find when you're constantly adding wood that the coal bed gets thick? My wife tends to add a few splits at a time. I don't complain because she's actually better at keeping the house consistently warm than I am (I tend to let it burn in cycles). The problem is when I'm ready to go to bed, there's a thick coal bed in the stove and I can't load it as full as I like for an overnight burn.

acesover · Feb 11, 2009

your glass is getting dirty because your woood is not seasond. the temps are fine and i load my stove both ways youll learn when you should just experiment with it you get differnt burn times and heat. after you clean ylour glass try to find some really seasond wood and see what happens. good luck with it

kbrown · Feb 11, 2009

My wife too is mostly the keeper of the stove. I will start the fire in the morning, get a good bed of coals and by then she will be up and load it for the day. I have noticed that loading N/S with larger splits does begin the burn the creosote off the glass. The wood is a combination of well seasoned oak and mostly ash from trees that had died 2 years ago thanks to the ash bug in Michigan. Still need to upload a pic of the bricks for everyone to examine just to make sure they are the correct ones. Looking in the manual, I found another model that has two bricks with a notch out of them, but those where shown in the back of the firebox. Ours have opposing notches and are along the front. Wondering if the factory put 2 of the wrong ones in my stove? How hot is the home when running at 600 all the time?

acesover · Feb 11, 2009

main room stays between 68-74 mostly in the 70s rest of the house and upstairs stays warm 66 or so out side temps really have allot to do with the rest of the house though.

kbrown · Aug 14, 2009

BeGreen said:
Assuming that the wood being burnt is well seasoned, this sounds like the fire is being kept a bit too cool. Try getting the stove hotter. The magnetic thermometer ranges are for when it's mounted on a single-wall flue pipe. They are not as relevant when measuring stove top temps on a steel stove. Try burning with the stove around 5-600 and I think the soot on the glass will burn off.

As for the bricks, can you post a picture or two of what you're seeing in your stove?

Ok, so it took almost 6 months to get back to this topic for me but hey, I was busy with the wood piles! Here are some pics taken during this time period when I had originally began this post. Hope you can see by what I mean with the bricks along the front edge and sides, along with the glass being dirty. As for the wood, it was very well seasoned oak - 4+ years as I had gotten it from a moving sale where they had it very well stacked and dry and we had it another 3 years before burning it.

i3bpvh · Aug 15, 2009

I'm looking at this getting a 1402 this fall, and just wonding what you all think of it. Are you happy with the performance, seen any major issues? thanks

chachdave · Aug 15, 2009

Heatit your bricks do not look right. I think the 2 bricks in front should be the ones that go on back wall in between metal baffle. You should not have any gaps on back wall between top baffle fibers and bricks. The baffle fibers on top should be push as far back and I got a 1 inch gap at front of stove, no gap in back. I installed mine last fall but I think the brick in front were a different texture than the rest. Also I had to trim alittle off one of the cut bricks for it to fit, but just a hair. I take a pic if you want but try rearranging the bricks.

kbrown · Aug 15, 2009

i3bpvh said:
I'm looking at this getting a 1402 this fall, and just wonding what you all think of it. Are you happy with the performance, seen any major issues? thanks

Love this insert. We began looking around September 2008 and although it wasn't long before we made our decision, we spent almost every available hour researching and looking at the other available types. What helped us was the fact that it has dual blowers, front mounted. This makes any future repair easy to get to without the need to pull the insert out. Second, it has a nice top surface that is just big enough to put a pot of water on for humidity or other uses. The firebox is good size and single control damper works good. If you read my past posts, you could surmise that I am not happy with the air wash system, but I suspect that is because the bricks were put in wrong by the installers. The heat output is exactly what the manufacturer claims; good dry wood and you easily reach secondary burn and high output. The only major issue for us was the wait for the stove itself due to such high demand. We ended up cancelling the original order from a local shop because they kept getting their orders pushed back. We found an online distributor in Indiana that had them in stock and we got it within 3 days from order. My advice is to order it as soon as possible and see how long back orders are; don't know if there is still a wait but I suspect there is. Although we bought the stove in 2008, we didn't buy the door until Jan 1 2009 and therefore we can take the tax break since the IRS code reads "placed in service" in 2009. Can't have a stove in service without a door! This stove can easily heat our home and although it's not a monster by other standards, I suspect that we haven't even come close to really letting it show us what it can do. For the price, I feel it's good quality and will provide years of reliable service to us.

kbrown · Aug 15, 2009

Chachdave, I agree and will be looking at that. I am thinking that ours are wrong. So in your unit the front bricks do not have the cut outs as ours do? If possible a pic of the front edge would be helpful.

JoeyD · Aug 16, 2009

I have an 1100c which has a different but similar set up. It looks to me like the bricks you have in front should be in the # 4 position as per the manual. My installer set mine up wrong also. Luckily I only burnt 3 small summertime fires before I realised his mistake. To his credit the manual isn't as clear as it could be.

begreen · Aug 16, 2009

JoeyD said:
I have an 1100c which has a different but similar set up. It looks to me like the bricks you have in front should be in the # 4 position as per the manual. My installer set mine up wrong also. Luckily I only burnt 3 small summertime fires before I realised his mistake. To his credit the manual isn't as clear as it could be.

Here's a 1402 brick layout diagram:

Squiner · Aug 16, 2009

I just installed my 1402 yesterday and had my first break in burn...I was roasting at 90 deg in my house

.

Anyways, thanks for starting this topic. I had my brick installed incorrectly as well and just fixed them a few minutes ago. They bricks with the notch come from the factory in the front. I think this is why everyone gets confused, and since the manual does not show bricks with notches. I had notched bricks facing outward in the front with the odd sized bricks (8&9

inside the notches. Now that they are at the top back, with the notches there to allow for the secondary air tube, I makes more sense now. Also, with the notched bricks in the front, they were too tall and that may account for the dirty glass people complain about.

Thanks!
Jim

Squiner · Aug 16, 2009

Quick question, how should the baffle be installed? Should it be pulled forward all the way or pushed all the way back so there is a gap in the front?

Jim

JoeyD · Aug 16, 2009

My 1100c manual says at least 1" gap in the front.

chachdave · Aug 17, 2009

Here are the pics of my insert brick layout. The front bricks are below metal door opening. I think I also put them in wrong last fall, must be all that excitement of just getting it ready for first light up.
The 1402 is a great heater, very happy with purchase. Gonna give it a good cleaning when on vacation in 2 weeks. New owner's also should get a kettle for top makes room feel twice as hot. Beware of cast iron kettle's that are not painted on inside. Got mine at TSC for around 10 bucks. Gotta do a little touch up paint on top of stove from rusty water from kettle, also will paint inside of kettle.

Now if it will just get cold. I got 6 cords of seasoned fuel.

ControlFreak · Aug 17, 2009

Heatit,

One thing that I noticed immediately is the absence of a coalbed. Before you load up the stove with logs, you should have a well established bed of coals that covers the bottom. Then lay the splits in there with the pointed edges pressed into the coalbed. You don't want flat sides laying on top of the coals and smothering them.

Dan

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