My Barometric damper install on eko 60

taxidermist said:

my thoughts on this...... How can you settings stay "tuned" if the wind and temp outside keep changing your draft which in turn creates a suction on primary and secondary chambers. I have read many things on dampers here and on coal sites and figured if Dean Zook has one on his and says it works, they are also using them in europe and econoburn sells them with their units then they must work. Only time will tell, I will try and post a video soon of how the draft changes so easy with a little wind.


Rob

Click to expand...

Rob- are you saying that the readings on your manometer are changing significantly even after installing the barometric damper, or are you saying that the damper itself is changing how much it opens, depending on wind & weather, but that your manometer reading stays pretty similar??

If it is the second (barometric damper varies, reading of draft stays about the same) then that's what you're aiming for.

If it's the first, something isn't acting the way it should.

Your barometric damper install has got me wondering....
Is there a down-side to having a barometric damper?
Suppose you have a chimney fire. Would the damper then become a source of air to fan a chimney fire?

Reason I'm asking is because I have a very tall 3-flue chimney -- 3 stories plus. It draws like crazy. I used to think this was an unadulterated good thing. But now I wonder if maybe I don't have too much of a good thing for my Memco boiler, because it is pradtically impossible to slow the thing down. The boiler draft control is not exactly air-tight (understatement). There's a conventional damper in the stove pipe, which helps. But to get any results, you have to be pretty agressive with it: 10 -- 11 oclock. That gets rid of some of the roaring sound. But there is a very fine line. Cross it, (somewhere past 11 oclock) and the furnace goes quiet, but you get smoke out the joints in the elbow. There is no middle ground.

So maybe a (properly adjusted) barometric damper would cut down on the draft enough to allow the Memco to just burn quietly without all the sound effects. The oil burner on the other side of the chimney has a barometric damper. Is this an indication that maybe I should have one on the wood boiler side?

Hope this doesn't count as a thread hy-jack. If so, my appologies.

Smee said:

Your barometric damper install has got me wondering....
Is there a down-side to having a barometric damper?
Suppose you have a chimney fire. Would the damper then become a source of air to fan a chimney fire?

Reason I'm asking is because I have a very tall 3-flue chimney -- 3 stories plus. It draws like crazy. I used to think this was an unadulterated good thing. But now I wonder if maybe I don't have too much of a good thing for my Memco boiler, because it is pradtically impossible to slow the thing down. The boiler draft control is not exactly air-tight (understatement). There's a conventional damper in the stove pipe, which helps. But to get any results, you have to be pretty agressive with it: 10 -- 11 oclock. That gets rid of some of the roaring sound. But there is a very fine line. Cross it, (somewhere past 11 oclock) and the furnace goes quiet, but you get smoke out the joints in the elbow. There is no middle ground.

So maybe a (properly adjusted) barometric damper would cut down on the draft enough to allow the Memco to just burn quietly without all the sound effects. The oil burner on the other side of the chimney has a barometric damper. Is this an indication that maybe I should have one on the wood boiler side?

Hope this doesn't count as a thread hy-jack. If so, my appologies.

Click to expand...

It definitely sounds like you are experiencing way more draft than you need, which may be reducing your net efficiency at extracting heat from the fire.

I'm not familiar with any of the details of the Memco, but I am assuming it is a conventional, non-gasification boiler, in which case, I'd be hesitant to add a barometric damper. With a gasification boiler, run properly, there should be no creosote in the chimney- and thus no real risk of a chimney fire. You can't necessarily count on that (lack of creosote) with a conventional boiler, though- some of them produce an abundance of creosote.

Try to borrow or make a draft gauge/ manometer, to measure your draft during a burn, and then you'll have a sense of what range your in-- and maybe find out if MEMCO has any suggested draft readings, or advice, pro or con, on ways to regulate draft.

Smee,

I have the same issue (too much draft) on my waterford wood cookstove - no way to hold a fire overnight. I put a BDD on my Tarm (in the basement), but not on the cookstove (in the kitchen). One other possible downside to the BDD is that it's going to suck more warm air out of your room. I'm hoping when I get my fresh air makeup ducted somewhere near the back of the Tarm, that it will feed the BDD some too. As was mentioned, this might not be advisable on a wood burning device that produces a lot of creosote, as I think it would further cool the flue gas.

Went to visit a friend today, and he described the same problem with his wood stove lsat few days -- couldn't shut it down by closing stove air inlet and chimney damper. Stove didn't seem to respond to being strangled -- kept right on burning, although not so vigoursly.

This causes me to wonder -- is there something about the weather? Its been blustery and stormy around here. Late winter; high humidity. For myself, I know I have too much draft. But it was particularly annoying yesterday. If I get a chance to buy a 7-inch T baro damper, I think I might try it, just to see what happens.

About creosote -- it certainly is a potential danger. But with that little window into the stove pipe, I might be able to watch out for it better. We'll see.

Thanks for bringing up the whole Baro damper subject. Might be a good idea.

The New Yorker I have is similar, I think, to the Memco unit you have. New Yorker says to put the barometric damper in. They're pretty specific about wanting the draft less than .04 inches at "most".

Is it "safe"? Is burning wood "safe"? If it was, everybody would likely still be doing it. It's not as "safe" as burning oil, gas, or electric heat.

All oil burners must have a barometric damper, adjusted according to the manufacturers instructions, to be code compliant.

If your solid fuel boiler, regardless of the make and model, has an instruction manual that says, "Install barometric damper.... within x-inches of the boiler... and adjust to no more than .0x inches of draft" you need one to be code compliant.

If you install one, keep the chimney connector pipe clean. Use ACS or some other chemical catalyst to help keep the chimney clean. Clean the chimney regularly, and diligently.

I went through the process of not having one, then installing one. So far, I like the results. Conventional water jacket boiler design. I like burning coal in it, but nights like tonight when there is little to no idle time, I am putting pieces of trees into it. It's running mostly all the time, no idling for long periods. Is it without risk? No.

However... the risk is mitigated by the fact that I am less likely to have a chimney fire with the damper in place.

Why?

1. Less "dirty" smoke than before. Without the damper, the fire was burning in a vacuum, even when the combustion blower was running. Belched black, thick, smoke the entire time there was a wood fire in it. Prone to "puffbacks" and coal gas explosions.... dirty fire... took a long time to come up to temperature. Now, once the fire gets established after loading, there is little smoke out of the chimney. Stack velocity is through the roof so little stagnation happens in the chimney. It shoots up the chimney with the draft and doesn't stay around long enough to be deposited in the chimney. Without the damper, it was kind of hanging around in there... bound to get more deposits if it's just farting around all the way up the chimney.

2. The smoke and gasses are hanging around in the boiler longer, allowing them to burn more completely, and heating the boiler up faster.

3. I asked myself and others the same question... and decided based on my situation, my choice was "when" I had a chimney fire without the damper, versus "if" I had a chimney fire with one.

4. Watch your stack temperatures, draft, and combustion air control, if you put one in. Keeping the stack temperatures below autoignition temperature for creosote and not having flame extension into the stack reduce the chances of a chimney fire drastically. Because of the damper allowing room air into the gas stream before it enters the chimney, I'd be completely stunned to see a chimney fire unless I allowed a large accumulation of creosote deposits to accumulate in the connector pipe and adjusted the combustion air too high and overheated the pipe. A chimney pipe fire appears to be virtually the only way I'll get fire into the chimney.

Smee said:

Your barometric damper install has got me wondering....
Is there a down-side to having a barometric damper?
Suppose you have a chimney fire. Would the damper then become a source of air to fan a chimney fire?

Reason I'm asking is because I have a very tall 3-flue chimney -- 3 stories plus. It draws like crazy. I used to think this was an unadulterated good thing. But now I wonder if maybe I don't have too much of a good thing for my Memco boiler, because it is pradtically impossible to slow the thing down. The boiler draft control is not exactly air-tight (understatement). There's a conventional damper in the stove pipe, which helps. But to get any results, you have to be pretty agressive with it: 10 -- 11 oclock. That gets rid of some of the roaring sound. But there is a very fine line. Cross it, (somewhere past 11 oclock) and the furnace goes quiet, but you get smoke out the joints in the elbow. There is no middle ground.

So maybe a (properly adjusted) barometric damper would cut down on the draft enough to allow the Memco to just burn quietly without all the sound effects. The oil burner on the other side of the chimney has a barometric damper. Is this an indication that maybe I should have one on the wood boiler side?

Hope this doesn't count as a thread hy-jack. If so, my appologies.

Click to expand...

Haven't been able to locate a 7-inch barometric dampter "T" yet. This morning I was watching flame through a sheetmetal screw-hole, as the draft drew it all the way into the chimney. Not a very healthy situation -- especially in late winter. However, the chimney cleanout is close to the boiler. I found that by opening the cleanout door 1 or two fingers worth, I could accomplish something similar to the Baro-damper, and drasticly reduce the draft so the stove stoped roaring and rumbling, and the flame was no longer drawn into the chimney. Remarkable effect on the fire -- much better behaved.

So I'll get a Baro-damper hopefully next time I go to the big city (Calais). Thanks for your comments -- particulary about keeping flame out of the chimney.

Did that myself for a few weeks once I saw the system wasn't great without one. Works, but doesn't remain constant as a BD would as it cannot self adjust.

I cut one into a six inch radiused T. Gives the back side of the damper some "breathing room" away from the stream and a small reserve of "fresh air" on the back side. I am fairly certain it's reduced some of the "odor" from puffbacks some people complain about and keeps more of the junk off the back of the flap.

Smee said:

Haven't been able to locate a 7-inch barometric dampter "T" yet. This morning I was watching flame through a sheetmetal screw-hole, as the draft drew it all the way into the chimney. Not a very healthy situation -- especially in late winter. However, the chimney cleanout is close to the boiler. I found that by opening the cleanout door 1 or two fingers worth, I could accomplish something similar to the Baro-damper, and drasticly reduce the draft so the stove stoped roaring and rumbling, and the flame was no longer drawn into the chimney. Remarkable effect on the fire -- much better behaved.

So I'll get a Baro-damper hopefully next time I go to the big city (Calais). Thanks for your comments -- particulary about keeping flame out of the chimney.

Click to expand...

Smee said:

Haven't been able to locate a 7-inch barometric dampter "T" yet. This morning I was watching flame through a sheetmetal screw-hole, as the draft drew it all the way into the chimney. Not a very healthy situation -- especially in late winter. However, the chimney cleanout is close to the boiler. I found that by opening the cleanout door 1 or two fingers worth, I could accomplish something similar to the Baro-damper, and drasticly reduce the draft so the stove stoped roaring and rumbling, and the flame was no longer drawn into the chimney. Remarkable effect on the fire -- much better behaved.

So I'll get a Baro-damper hopefully next time I go to the big city (Calais). Thanks for your comments -- particulary about keeping flame out of the chimney.

Click to expand...

Smee- FYI, the Field Controls barometric dampers come with a nifty accessory that will make its own Tee for a pipe the same size as the damper you order. You just make an opening in the flue pipe and then this "snout" attaches on to form the Tee for the damper. So if you get a 7" Field Controls "RC" (standard model)damper, you'll be all set with the Tee and won't need a separate tee fitting. You can probably order the whole thing from Patriot-Supply.com and they ship quickly, in my experience.