30% tax credits on new stoves

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semipro

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,341
SW Virginia
New tax credits on stoves were published on Feb 20th as part of the stimulus package. The credit is 30% up to a maxium of $1500.

It includes stove which burns biomass fuel to heat a home or heat water with a thermal efficiency rating of "at least 75% as measured using a lower heating value."

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits

I've been looking for a good used stove but may buy a new one now!
 
Great, yes, now let's see what units will qualify. I emailed Hearthstone on this two months ago with no response. Here is their webpage addressing it:

http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/customer-resources/epa-certification

Here's a link to the latest EPA certified stoves and I didn't see any wood stoves that have a "default efficiency" of 75 or more.

http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

Now, I do not know if that is the same measure used for the qualifying tax credit, or how closely they may be correlated. Hopefully the manufacturers will get this straightened out quickly to help dealers move product.

MarkG
 
Am I reading that information right: Those of us who put a stove into service in 2008 do not qualify?

-SF
 
SlyFerret said:
Am I reading that information right: Those of us who put a stove into service in 2008 do not qualify?

-SF
Click to expand...

Correct.
 
Good year for me.. $8,000 credit for my new log cabin and now 30% off my new stove! I know this stimulus doesnt hit everyone, but its doing just great for me this year. Big help in a big way.
 
Retired Guy said:
I may look into the Geitner tax credit.
Click to expand...

I am having my tax return prepared by the firm of Geitner and Barry this year.
 
So are there any wood stoves that actually qualify for this? Even the cat stoves are only rated at 72%...
 
I talked to my local stove dealer about this. He has a bit of New England based skepticism/cynicism (not that anyone from NE would have that... ;-P ), and tells me "follow the money". He figures that the pellet stove manufacturers are behind the legislation, hence the rating @ 75% and above. He figures it might all shake loose in the long run but will take some time. No worries, though, 2009 taxes are due for 13 months or so.

I'm also trying to find out about the credit for replacing windows. I've replaced about 32 of the 40 (!!!) windows in the house so far and the tax credit would really help with that last heat sponge. Again, the dealers weren't ready for the legislation and my window guy says it will be some time before they figure it out.
 
Semipro said:
New tax credits on stoves were published on Feb 20th as part of the stimulus package. The credit is 30% up to a maxium of $1500.

It includes stove which burns biomass fuel to heat a home or heat water with a thermal efficiency rating of "at least 75% as measured using a lower heating value."

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits

I've been looking for a good used stove but may buy a new one now!
Click to expand...

What the heck does that mean, "as measured using a lower heating value"? Anybody know?
 
Write your congresscritters. I just got done doing my senators and my congressman, asking them to look into this and to submit legislation this year to have the limit lowered to 70. I also pointed out very strongly that a look through the EPA list makes it unambiguously clear that the legislation was written under the influence of the pellet stove industry to set the cut-off so that pellet stoves would qualify and no woodstove would.

DON'T TAKE THIS LYING DOWN!

There also sure ought to be a lot of noise about this from the wood stove manfucaturers. Are they trying to do anything about this or not? I'm furious. I need a bigger stove, and this tax credit would enable me to get one. Without it, I'll have to wait a least a year or more to be able to afford it.
 
Wet1 said:
So are there any wood stoves that actually qualify for this? Even the cat stoves are only rated at 72%...
Click to expand...

The HS equinox is rated at 78% Is this the the rateing the G man wants to see ? Could i be getting stimulated ? I could use some stimulation .
 
wellbuilt home said:
Wet1 said:
So are there any wood stoves that actually qualify for this? Even the cat stoves are only rated at 72%...
Click to expand...

The HS equinox is rated at 78% Is this the the rateing the G man wants to see ? Could i be getting stimulated ? I could use some stimulation .
Click to expand...

Huh? It's something way down like 63 on the EPA list.
 
wellbuilt home said:
Wet1 said:
So are there any wood stoves that actually qualify for this? Even the cat stoves are only rated at 72%...
Click to expand...

The HS equinox is rated at 78% Is this the the rateing the G man wants to see ? Could i be getting stimulated ? I could use some stimulation .
Click to expand...

Only if you install a pellet stove inside that V-8 monster of yours.
 
wellbuilt home said:
Wet1 said:
So are there any wood stoves that actually qualify for this? Even the cat stoves are only rated at 72%...
Click to expand...

The HS equinox is rated at 78% Is this the the rateing the G man wants to see ? Could i be getting stimulated ? I could use some stimulation .
Click to expand...
I suspect that's either the manufacturers or a third party claim, not the government's. The EPA has it classified as 63%. Even the cat stoves are only rated to 72% according to the EPA, despite some companies such as BK having third party claims at 82.5% for the same stove.

I'm feeling pretty shafted since I bought a pellet stove during 2008 and I'm looking at a new wood stove for this year. :(
 
When I visited Woodstock last week they said that they were in contact with the EPA to get them to raise the effiency ratings on the stoves so they would meet the 75% rating. So the manufacterers are looking into this.
 
gyrfalcon said:
Semipro said:
New tax credits on stoves were published on Feb 20th as part of the stimulus package. The credit is 30% up to a maxium of $1500.

It includes stove which burns biomass fuel to heat a home or heat water with a thermal efficiency rating of "at least 75% as measured using a lower heating value."

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits

I've been looking for a good used stove but may buy a new one now!
Click to expand...

What the heck does that mean, "as measured using a lower heating value"? Anybody know?
Click to expand...

I believe the EPA does their standardized testing on both a high and a low burn. The low burn is almost always more efficient than the high burn testing, so that works in our favor given the criteria outlined in the energy star doc.

I've talked to a couple players in the wood stove business, the general consensus is the documentation is not finalized yet. Most believe that many wood stoves will be included in this, but that we will have to wait a little while for more details to trickle down. I was told the info should be out and finalized in April and certainly before May. Obviously any stove purchased before this point (after 1/1/09) will qualify for this credit if it is ultimately determined to be eligible.

The thinking is that almost all cat stoves should qualify as they are over 75% at low burn. The counter concern is that the cats will degrade and fail in time, which will cause these stove to drastically lose their efficiency if the owner doesn't replace the cat. The cat manufacturers are saying that's BS because they can prove their historic sales of replacement cats fits the estimated number of stoves in service given the standard assumed cat replacement frequency of 6 to 10 years. I understand many of the stove manufacturers are working heavily on getting their products included (and understandably so).

I don't know what's going to happen here. I'm likely going to go ahead and purchase a new stove, which will have a cat. I guess the safe bet is to assume no wood stoves will qualify. If any wood stove does qualify, it will be a cat stove, so I guess I'll go ahead and purchase knowing that I might find out later down the road that I could be getting this credit... if not, oh well.
 
Wet1 said:
gyrfalcon said:
I just got done doing my senators and my congressman...
Click to expand...
Well I guess that's one way of getting what you want. :cheese:
Click to expand...

Heh. Naughty, naughty! (Might even be worth it, except Bernie Sanders is one of them. I love woodstoves, but there's a limit.)
 
Wet1 said:
I believe the EPA does their standardized testing on both a high and a low burn. The low burn is almost always more efficient than the high burn testing, so that works in our favor given the criteria outlined in the energy star doc.

I've talked to a couple players in the wood stove business, the general consensus is the documentation is not finalized yet. Most believe that many wood stoves will be included in this, but that we will have to wait a little while for more details to trickle down. I was told the info should be out and finalized in April and certainly before May. Obviously any stove purchased before this point (after 1/1/09) will qualify for this credit if it is ultimately determined to be eligible.

The thinking is that almost all cat stoves should qualify as they are over 75% at low burn. The counter concern is that the cats will degrade and fail in time, which will cause these stove to drastically lose their efficiency if the owner doesn't replace the cat. The cat manufacturers are saying that's BS because they can prove their historic sales of replacement cats fits the estimated number of stoves in service given the standard assumed cat replacement frequency of 6 to 10 years. I understand many of the stove manufacturers are working heavily on getting their products included (and understandably so).

I don't know what's going to happen here. I'm likely going to go ahead and purchase a new stove, which will have a cat. I guess the safe bet is to assume no wood stoves will qualify. If any wood stove does qualify, it will be a cat stove, so I guess I'll go ahead and purchase knowing that I might find out later down the road that I could be getting this credit... if not, oh well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explainer and the encouraging info. If the "documentation isn't finished yet," whose documentation, do you know? Are we talking EPA or somebody else? Are the current EPA efficiency ratings at high burn? Do they have low burn data they're going to roll out that will end up showing the cat stoves, at least, above that magic 75 mark?

Who the heck wrote this section of the egislation anyway? Does anybody know?

I sure wish the stove manufacturers would make some public comments about all this. They ought to be marshalling customer help in pushing for these things to be decided as soon and as inclusively as possible.

That 30 percent tax credit will definitely mean the difference between my being able to afford a new stove for next winter or continue to fight with an "understoved" situation for at least another year.
 
Where are you guys even seeing EPA measured efficiency numbers for ANY woodstove? I have searched the internet and can't find anything, the EPA documents I have found only list the default rates. Manufacturer claims are worthless. Perhaps pellet stoves can get away with their 78% untested default rates, but woodstoves certainly aren't going to be able to pull that off. The legislation might have an interesting side effect - companies would finally have a financial incentive to have their efficiency ratings actually measured/published by the EPA for the first time ever. This is something I always thought would be good for consumers.
 
tradergordo said:
Where are you guys even seeing EPA measured efficiency numbers for ANY woodstove? I have searched the internet and can't find anything, the EPA documents I have found only list the default rates. Manufacturer claims are worthless. Perhaps pellet stoves can get away with their 78% untested default rates, but woodstoves certainly aren't going to be able to pull that off. The legislation might have an interesting side effect - companies would finally have a financial incentive to have their efficiency ratings actually measured/published by the EPA for the first time ever. This is something I always thought would be good for consumers.
Click to expand...

OK, what's a "default rate"? I have no idea what that means. I've just been assuming the EPA numbers linked to in this thread were what was going to be used for purpose of this legislation, since they're the only ones there are. You're saying they're totally meaningless? If so and the legislation requires waiting for real numbers to be measured, certified and published by EPA, it ain't gonna happen any time this year or probably even the next.
 
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