Hearth remodel project underway ... advice sought

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johnnylump

New Member
Mar 2, 2009
5
Colorado
The presence of a wood-burning stove helped make up our mind to buy our home a few years ago. However, we don't like the surround / hearth, and I'm starting a project to remodel it.

We have what I believe is a Fisher Grandma Bear, possibly a Deluxe version. I have the manual and other supporting documenation, so, if anyone is collecting scans of Fisher manuals, I'll happily offer one up.

In any event, the stove is one the corner of our basement. It is adjacent to the exterior wall on one side and an interior wall on the other. We have used the stove infrequently. It does not heat the house as well as we would expect, but it does help somewhat. It has back-puffed when the dryer is running; we usually correct this by opening a door to the house for a short while.

Here's the photo:

stove_surround_with_measures.jpg


The old surround material on the walls was "z-brick," mounted directly on the on the drywall in some kind of mastic or mortar. I've removed the drywall, as seen in the photo (It didn't go easy). Please note the backerboard pictured isn't mounted, I just propped it there to check its size.

The upper part of the surround, just barely in the picture, is some kind of wood paneling -- possibly flooring! It goes to the ceiling. This will stay in place unless it's a safety problem.

That's also Z-brick on the floor of the raised hearth. It will have to go. I have been able to reach under the hearth; it feels like it is a wooden frame with plywood on top, although it is possible some kind of backerboard is in the mix, as well. Beneath it all is the concrete pad on which the house rests.

It is our intention to place porcelain tiles to make the new surround. I have done tile work in the past, so no worries there.

The simplest plan:
* For the floor, pry off each z-brick and tile over the existing surface.
* Mount backerboard on the walls and tile over them.

Questions:
1) Would placing insulation between the backerboard and the concrete exterior basement wall significantly improve the heating capability of the stove?
2) For reasons I can't discern, the studs on the interior wall have what I think are called "furring strips." These strips extend from the studs and were used to attached the drywall on which the z-brick was mounted. Would they have a fire-safety purpose?

However, we are curious if it is possible to do two things:

1) Remove the raised hearth and drop the stove down to a level flush with the rest of the floor, tiling directly over the concrete pad. We would keep the same setbacks from the wall and carpet.

This seems like it won't create any danger, but I don't want to make any assumptions: I don't know if the raised hearth was originally put in for safety or aesthetics. We'll also probably have to round up an extension for the chimney connector, as well. I don't know if a DIY can handle the extension, or if I'll need a professional.

Question: Is some additional thermal protection necessary between the tiles and pad?

(Why do this? The room is long and narrow, and the raised hearth is rather huge within it. I don't know if this would affect the heating capability, either.)

2) Additionally, we would like learn if it is possible to move the stove closer to the corner, again, to create more space in the room. It probably isn't. I fully understand this may create a danger and certainly don't want to do it if that's the case, but all the promotional photos for the stove seem to put it much closer to the walls.

I have marked the current setbacks in the photo. These are in accordance with what is required by the manual. Is it possible to move it closer to the walls if materials with a sufficiently high r-value are placed as wall materials? Would this also mean removing the wood paneling on the walls above the stove?

I don't know what minimum r-value is recommended for the Fisher Grandma Bear, however.

In any event, there may come a day when we replace this with a more modern stove that is approved for burning on bad air-quality days and can stand closer to the walls. In the meantime, we'd like to improve the attractiveness of the hearth and (hopefully) make it fit within the room a little better.

Thank you for any advice you all can provide.

Regards,
John Lumpkin
 
I'm a big fan of raised hearths. Both of my stoves are on masonry hearths ~12" above the floor. Less bending over to tend the stove. In your case, with a concrete slab for a floor, you could rip out everything that's there, and build up with masonry in whatever shape/size/style will suit you and suit the requirements of the appliance. If it's a slab on grade, you need do nothing, just set the stove in place if you like. Or add any non-combustible decorative material you want under and around the stove.

In any case, you need to very carefully observe the manufacturer's required minimum clearances to combustibles in every direction from the appliance. If the manufacturer's instructions allow for the installation of wall protection (heat shielding) to reduce the rear corner clearances, then that's an option. But you always have to keep in mind the required clearances for your stovepipe, as well. Looks like that old stove has an 8" flue. Most modern stoves run 6". Just something to consider for future reference.

What does this stove exhaust into? What's the stovepipe/chimney arrangement? Offsets (direction changes)? Total height? Flue cross-sectional area changes? Your back-puffing problem sounds like a draft problem, which can be caused by a number of things. We really need a more complete description of the entire system to be of meaningful assistance. Rick
 
Hey John- Welcome aboard!

I'm fairly new to the place and I have an old Fisher also. Mine is a smaller model called the Baby Bear. I wish I had a manual for mine so consider yourself lucky there. Stick to their #'s and you'll be good. Here's a couple things you need to look into.

1. Talk to your local building inspector. I did not need a permit, [allot do] but he was kind enough to give me a copy of the "codes" in order to reduce clearances using a non-combustible heat shield on the walls.

2. Call your homeowners insurance. Your current provider may not let you have a stove at all, let alone one of these old Fishers because of them being non-UL or EPA certified. God forbid, if you need to file a claim, you wouldn't want to NOT be covered.

3. That hearth scares me! It has no REAL insulation from the heat from under the stove. The concrete is a much better idea. And you gain floor space when it is not in use as well as the appearance of less room taken up... Just my opinion. There's super cool ideas on this site for hearths.

4. I would disassemble that chimney, pipes and all. These old "smoke dragons" cause allot of creasole build up and they HAVE to be cleaned OFTEN or you WILL have a chimney fire. There is a right way and a wrong way to assemble the chimney. Yours needs to be done the right way!

From the starting point you describe, it seems you will have a cool set up. But as I'm sure you know, better safe than sorry. It would help if you could post the pictures and details of the chimney configuration . I'm hoping some of the guys will chime in and help you also.

Couper
 
Fossil,

Thank you for your response.

It is an 8" (diameter) flue.

The instructions make no mention of heat shielding as an option; despite the photos, they simply recommend the 22" clearance from the walls, which is the current configuration. It sounds like I will have to leave it at that.

As for the rest of the design, the flue bends twice at 45 degree elbows and enters the pictured outside wall horizontally, just above the area captured by the photograph. A metal insulated Pro-Jet chimney trube exits the exterior of the house opposite the flue entry. It immediately angles 90 degrees -- straight up . The chimney goes straight up on the side of our house, and the cap is above the highest point of the rooftop.

Our house is a split level, and the chimney exits the side of the house about three feet off the ground, goes up one story, plus the height of the roof. 20-24 feet, plus 3 vertical feet inside the house? Just an estimate. The diameter of the exterior chimney is 10 inches.

I hope that answers your questions -- I may not have all the terminology correct. Please let me know if I can provide more detail or additional photos. Thanks again for your response.

Regards,
John
 
68 -- Thanks! This manual says it's for multiple bears, including the Baby Bear IV and V. Would you like a scan? It's 20 pages.

Good advice, all. We're clear with the insurance company (Allstate) -- they merely wanted an inspection after we bought the house.

I'll see about posting some chimney pics when it's light.

Regards,
John
 
johnnylump, I sent you a pm.
 
oconnor -- Thanks for that link.

I've scanned the manual as well as a promotional brochure that has color pictures of several Fisher stoves. It might help people identify theirs. As I've had a couple of requests for it already (which I am happily fulfilling), is there a place on hearth.com that I could upload it to?

Will add photos of the flue and chimney later.

Best,
John
 
I would like to know how you removed your brick hearth from your concrete floor, my wifebought a wood stove and measured wrong so now i have to remove the hearth. Can anyone PLEASE HELP me with any info on how to do it?
 
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