If home heating oil stays under $2 and pellets at $300 per ton I think its cheaper to heat with oil

alexdrozd · Mar 4, 2009

I put this note in another discussion but thought it was relevant here too.

Just remember. Any comparison between 2 heating periods (last year versus this year, or last Jan versus this Jan for example) are totally meaningless unless you are factoring in the degree days. Unless you are using the degree days for the time periods you are analyzing, you results are invalid because it most likely was warmer or colder between the two time frames.

Wet1 · Mar 4, 2009

Also check those oil prices for last year, I suspect you paid more than $2.50-$2.75/gal.

smaxell1 · Mar 4, 2009

chrisasst said:
for me I go through 1 ton of pellets = $250- $300 a month. I went through 300 gallons of oil per month. 300 x $2.00 = cheaper to burn pellets.

I heated my house with ~5 tons of pellets this year. The previous year I used 1100 gallons of oil.

Oil would have to be cheaper than $2/gallon and pellets over $300 per ton for it to be cheaper to heat with oil!

---scott

weatherguy · Mar 4, 2009

I heated my house with ~5 tons of pellets this year. The previous year I used 1100 gallons of oil.

Oil would have to be cheaper than $2/gallon and pellets over $300 per ton for it to be cheaper to heat with oil!

You could even pay $400 a ton and still be ahead....lets hope the pellet dealers dont know this :lol:

newf lover · Mar 5, 2009

trudd, I'm with you. First time in 18 years we can sit in our great room and not freeze our butts off. Used to be 61-63 degrees, now it's 72-74, or hotter if I wanted to turn the temp up. Being comfortable is worth some $$$ to me.

JPCOMP · Mar 5, 2009

HarmanP68 said:
HarmanP68 said:

exoilburner said:

In western Washington state, the break even point on my spreadsheet is: Pellets $245/ton and Furnace oil $209/gal.

The spread sheet is based on the DOE HEATING FUEL COMPARISON CALCULATOR
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

Click to expand...

that oil better be made of gold and deliver itself and cook me dinner for $209 a gallon....
just kidding I know you meant $2.09/gal...wish I could say it was that cheap here...$2.75-$2.90 a gallon upstate NY 2day..places here are saying they are gonna go above $3.00/gallon within a week or 2

Click to expand...

what a difference a week makes..down to $2.49..woot woot..NOT!

I live near you, where the hell are you buying your oil? I just paid $1.99/gal around the same time as your post??

iceman · Mar 5, 2009

many of you can be wrong... factor in electricity.. which isn't that much but it is still there.. also.. most furnaces will keep your house warmer as pellet stoves arent "meant" for a large area(whole house).... if your house isnt insulated well....... then that WOULD (more than likely) make your furnace waste more energy.. if your house is insulated well.... then yo would notice pellets vs oil would be close to the same in total price.. (assuming yor furnace is 10yrs or less old)..
pellet stoves do work and many times we are happy with 1 room at 75 and the rest of the house at 68.. but when its bitterly cold out i am willing to bet that its cheaper to run a furnace for 24 hrs and use2-3.5 gallons of oil (3.5x2bucks =$7) then pushing a stove at 2bags a day which =12 bucks at 300 ton...
that was based on my house which is average insulation... about 110 gallons of oil a month at 2 a gallon vs 1.5 to 2 bags of pellets when its really really cold
even 5 gallons a day is less than 2 bags of pellets at current pricing...
i like my pellet stove but ever since they hit 200+ a ton i often question myself

alexdrozd · Mar 5, 2009

How to make your hot air furnace run like a pellet stove. It works!

Close off all of your supply ducts throughout your house except for the room your pellet stove is in. Crank up the thermostat. The pellet stove room will be blasted hot and the rest of the house will be cool. You'll save money too because the furnace won't use as much fuel to heat one room!

Dr_Drum · Mar 5, 2009

Everyone has a specific situation. It's too hard to really compare person to person. Throw in opinion, or "doing the right thing" arguements, and forget it. My honest comparison is pretty simple. Over the last 10 years I have averaged 100 gals (plus or minus) per month in Jan and Feb. At todays oil price of $1.63, that's $163 per month, call it $200. At $5/bag of pellets burning 1.5 per day for 30 days is $225 not including electricity. My current oil/pellet prices are really more like $1.65/gal vs. $5.95/bag so difference is even greater. Not to mention the labor factor.
Mike -

johnny1720 · Mar 6, 2009

iceman said:
many of you can be wrong... factor in electricity.. which isn't that much but it is still there..

I calculated $18.00 per stove to run them 24 hours per day on high for 30 days. I used a Kill-A-Wat meter and multiplied the number of KW's * 16 (which is what I pay).

More frequent Starts and Stops also increased energy usage.

Johnny

bwoy · Mar 10, 2009

Penn State has a good website to compare fuel costs

http://energy.cas.psu.edu/EnergySelector.html

As far as price of pellets go, didn't everyone buy pellet stoves to cut down on green house gases and save the world?

Dr_Drum · Mar 10, 2009

Pyro Gyro said:
Penn State has a good website to compare fuel costs

http://energy.cas.psu.edu/EnergySelector.html

As far as price of pellets go, didn't everyone buy pellet stoves to cut down on green house gases and save the world?

Everyone, . . . . . No.

According to that calculator, my current oil price of $1.65 per gal equals $195 per ton. I paid $250 per ton for my pellets. I don't think I can afford to save the world this year.
Mike -

pellet0708 · Mar 10, 2009

As far as price of pellets go, didn't everyone buy pellet stoves to cut down on green house gases and save the world?[/quote]

Everyone, . . . . . No.

-[/quote]

I'm not worried about green house gasses, it's all about sending the money to the wrong people and the benefits keeping it here. Any way we can reduce the use of oil makes them really nervous over there.

This isnt true for everyone but in my cape, our pellet stove keeps it warmer than our furnace did for less money even if the pellets are more expensive because the heat rises up the stairwell and we never have to run the heat up there and we have it warm for the first time in years. People with long ranch style houses don't have that benefit.
Depends on your house and situation all the way around but regardless... its great to have choices because things WILL get tight again with these oil countries.

exoilburner · Mar 10, 2009

In my neck of the woods local Oil is below $2/gal. Local premium pellets at my stove dealer, 245 ton and have been for 7 months. Switching back to oil heat today until prices make pellets more economical than oil. NICE!........to be able to wait for fuel bargains and store them ahead.

FYI. Like Craig aready said somewhere. The country that is the biggest supplier of oil to the US is Canada. The next biggest supplier is about a tie between Mexico and Saudi Arabia. (according to the US Energy Information Administration)
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_epc0_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

Dang-it! Gonna have to change my user name!

itworks · Mar 11, 2009

Once again I applaud those of you who burn pellets for eco & patriotic reasons, I personally burn pellets to save money. My alternative method of heating is HHO. I've been using oil since Jan 2009 even though I have about 3 1/2 tons of NEWP's in the garage. My oil tank is 1/2 full and I'm hoping to have the opportunity to fill it up with HHO at +/- $2 @gal. Isn't it great to have choces?

MCPO · Mar 11, 2009

iceman said:
many of you can be wrong... factor in electricity.. which isn't that much but it is still there.. also.. most furnaces will keep your house warmer as pellet stoves arent "meant" for a large area(whole house).... if your house isnt insulated well....... then that WOULD (more than likely) make your furnace waste more energy.. if your house is insulated well.... then yo would notice pellets vs oil would be close to the same in total price.. (assuming yor furnace is 10yrs or less old)..
pellet stoves do work and many times we are happy with 1 room at 75 and the rest of the house at 68.. but when its bitterly cold out i am willing to bet that its cheaper to run a furnace for 24 hrs and use2-3.5 gallons of oil (3.5x2bucks =$7) then pushing a stove at 2bags a day which =12 bucks at 300 ton...
that was based on my house which is average insulation... about 110 gallons of oil a month at 2 a gallon vs 1.5 to 2 bags of pellets when its really really cold
even 5 gallons a day is less than 2 bags of pellets at current pricing...
i like my pellet stove but ever since they hit 200+ a ton i often question myself

Everything above is so true. As far as I can calculate I would have done just as well just burning oil this year. Even though oil was higher earlier this year.
The 2 tons of pellets (supplement) that I will end up using will save me 300 gals of oil. Thats damn close to what the bag says (40lbs pellets =2.25 gals oil) The difference is oil is only $1.87 now and pellets are still $6 a bag. It`s costing me $1.31 every time I burn a bag of pellets vs oil.

However having an alternative heat supply is always good insurance so I`m not gonna complain.
I drank a ton of bourbon, wine, and beer this winter, ate out a lot and blew a lot of dough on other useless stuff so what`s the sense of getting anal over a couple hundred bucks one way or the other?

exoilburner · Mar 12, 2009

[quote author="Gio" date="1236827207"]

...............Everything above is so true. As far as I can calculate I would have done just as well just burning oil this year. Even though oil was higher earlier this year.
The 2 tons of pellets (supplement) that I will end up using will save me 300 gals of oil. Thats damn close to what the bag says (40lbs pellets =2.25 gals oil) The difference is oil is only $1.87 now and pellets are still $6 a bag. It`s costing me $1.31 every time I burn a bag of pellets vs oil......................

The last time oil got down to $2.00/gal here was Feb. of 2005.

8 months ago it peaked at $4.56/gal. Then the economy tanked.

BDPVT · Mar 12, 2009

Ok, time for a reality check. Who honestly believes that oil will stay under $2.00 per gallon for the entire heating season? When I purchased my pellets last year for $199/ton fuel oil was going for $4.69/gal. Oil prices dropped very slowly all season and are currently at $2.09/gal around here. Think about the actual cost if you had been heating with oil all winter. It's great that oil is so cheap now that the season is over and we don't need to buy it!
It is impossible to predict future energy prices especially in this economy, but one thing for certain is we will continue to see wild price swings in a very volatile market. I for one like the security of locking down my energy budget and I can do that when I purchase pellets at a fixed cost for the entire season. There is a huge risk relying on market prices. It is also very important to have alternatives so we can take advantage of the best option out there. I will continue to buy pellets at the best price I can find and supplement with oil if and when it is a better value....just like last year.

MCPO · Mar 12, 2009

BDPVT said:
Ok, time for a reality check. Who honestly believes that oil will stay under $2.00 per gallon for the entire heating season? When I purchased my pellets last year for $199/ton fuel oil was going for $4.69/gal. Oil prices dropped very slowly all season and are currently at $2.09/gal around here. Think about the actual cost if you had been heating with oil all winter. It's great that oil is so cheap now that the season is over and we don't need to buy it!
It is impossible to predict future energy prices especially in this economy, but one thing for certain is we will continue to see wild price swings in a very volatile market. I for one like the security of locking down my energy budget and I can do that when I purchase pellets at a fixed cost for the entire season. There is a huge risk relying on market prices. It is also very important to have alternatives so we can take advantage of the best option out there. I will continue to buy pellets at the best price I can find and supplement with oil if and when it is a better value....just like last year.

Basically mostly true above but last year where I am pellets were selling for $300 in June if and when they were available.
Some folks never got theirs till the fall season or later. You were fortunate to be in an area where they are cheaper.
So I can ask the same question, who honestly believes that pellets will stay at $300 a ton?
Sure, one advantage is that you can pre buy your pellets and stock your next seasons heat supply but what about the following year if oil rises ? You can rest assured if oil spikes again , pellet prices will definitely follow.
This is exactly what many are facing now and choosing to burn oil instead.
Pellets might lag a bit behind the oil price increases but anyone thinking about spending $3K+ for a pellet stove+ installation and a years supply of pellets really has to take a long hard look at it.
The pellet supply situation last year didn`t make for much of a secure feeling either.

exoilburner · Mar 12, 2009

Around here HHoil increased 40% in 2008 ($325/gal to $4.56/gal). Pellets increased 11% in 2008 ($221/ton to $245/ton). HHoil caused a bit of wallet-pucker for me.

Have to agree with Gio; currently there's probably no $$ payoff to adding a pellet burning device at these fuel prices unless you were replacing a dead existing heating appliance. Maybe in the future.

I track historical fuel price data on the US Energy Information Agency web site. An interesting thing I have noticed is that since they started tracking pellet prices the cost of a BTU of oil heat has never been cheaper than the cost of a BTU of pellet heat until now. And before the big 2008 price spike, pellet BTU prices were averaging about half of HHoil BTU prices.

If home heating oil stays under $2 and pellets at $300 per ton I think its cheaper to heat with oil

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