Harman P38 hard to light

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rap69ri

rap69ri

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2008
734
Middle of RI
I have a Harman P38 that does not like to start. It usually takes about 30-45 minutes and many handfulls of pellets along with 1/3 bottle of gel to get it finally running. It looks like there is too much air blowing through the burnpot that puts the fire out and keeps the stove from heating up to start feeding pellets soon enough. I have tried turning the draft down, up and in between. has anyone seen this before.

Thanks,

Rick
 
Here`s what worked for me after the same problem.
I adjusted the trim pot (low draft adjustment) on the control board. Page 18 in your manual.
It could be worth a try. Make sure the power is off. I did mine while the stove was burning , no problemo.
I turned mine all the way down (counterclockwise)
 
Gio said:
Here`s what worked for me after the same problem.
I adjusted the trim pot (low draft adjustment) on the control board. Page 18 in your manual.
It could be worth a try. Make sure the power is off. I did mine while the stove was burning , no problemo.
I turned mine all the way down (counterclockwise)
Click to expand...

We did try that same step, but it didn't change the outcome. We can hear the fan change speed when we adjust it though.
 
rap69ri said:
Gio said:
Here`s what worked for me after the same problem.
I adjusted the trim pot (low draft adjustment) on the control board. Page 18 in your manual.
It could be worth a try. Make sure the power is off. I did mine while the stove was burning , no problemo.
I turned mine all the way down (counterclockwise)
Click to expand...

We did try that same step, but it didn't change the outcome. We can hear the fan change speed when we adjust it though.
Click to expand...

Do you know the exact voltage feeding the stove?
Have you had this stove for long?
Has it always been hard to start?
Is it still under warranty?
Are you mixing the gel?
Is the exhaust probe clean?

I usually have to use a lot of gel too and I find it slow to start myself but not as long as yours.
I have the best results with charcoal lighter fluid since it burns longer, doesn`t smoke, doesn`t explode when lighting like the gelled alcohol . It`s much cheaper and lights the pellets much much quicker. The stove blower comes on in just a few minutes.
 
I just throw a cup or two of 91% IPA saturated pellets in the pot and toss in a match... works very well on mine with the feed set at a low level. You can buy a quart of the 91% IPA at WM for next to nothing, and it works far better than the gel.
 
Wet1 said:
I just throw a cup or two of 91% IPA saturated pellets in the pot and toss in a match... works very well on mine with the feed set at a low level. You can buy a quart of the 91% IPA at WM for next to nothing, and it works far better than the gel.
Click to expand...

That brings up a good point Wet1.
I also set the feed level at low #1 ,at least while starting. I`m gonna assume the OP does this too.
And yeah, whenever I use some of my gel stock (bought it last year and gotta use it up before it evaps), I always dilute it with IPA if only to extend the quantity. It`s seems to work as good as the gel itself. I mix enough to saturate a cup of pellets. Surprisingly , pellets maintain their hardness and don`t absorb any kind of liquid starter for a long time.
In 40*+ weather sometimes I`ll burn the stove twice a day for a few hours so starting fluid costs becomes a consideration.
 
I've had the stove for about 4 months and it's been hard to start since I've had it. The first thing I did was replace the ESP figuring that was the problem, but that didn't help at all. I pour lots of gel in and have tried mixing it with the pellets. The fire tends to move to one side of the burnpot and eventually burn itself out. It's almost as if their is too much air being introduced to the burnpot during startup. I'm starting to wonder if either the draft potentiometer or the control board itself is having some issues. I'll relight it 2-3 times before it finally takes off, and once going on its own it burn great on any setting. It just really sucks getting the damn think lit.
 
Rap,

Just for S&G;, try starting it as I outlined above. The only times I've had to relight doing it this way is if I either didn't use enough pellets, or if I didn't use enough 91% IPA to saturate all the pellets. If you use enough of both, and start the stove at the low setting, you should no problems at all, assuming it truly is functioning correctly. The other thing I do is to shut the door as soon as I light the pellets, if I don't close the door right away, the pellets will possibly not light.
 
CZARCAR said:
Wet1 said:
I just throw a cup or two of 91% IPA saturated pellets in the pot and toss in a match... works very well on mine with the feed set at a low level. You can buy a quart of the 91% IPA at WM for next to nothing, and it works far better than the gel.
Click to expand...
i guess IPA = isoprpyl alcohol?
the idea of gel is to avoid vaporization i thinx
Click to expand...
Yes Pook, Isopropyl alcohol. I believe the gel contains IPA as well, it's just not as concentrated.
 
Wet1 said:
Rap,

Just for S&G;, try starting it as I outlined above. The only times I've had to relight doing it this way is if I either didn't use enough pellets, or if I didn't use enough 91% IPA to saturate all the pellets. If you use enough of both, and start the stove at the low setting, you should no problems at all, assuming it truly is functioning correctly. The other thing I do is to shut the door as soon as I light the pellets, if I don't close the door right away, the pellets will possibly not light.
Click to expand...

It's certainly worth a shot. Thanks for the tip. I would still like to figure out what the problem is though.
 
Ok, you say that the stove runs well at all settings once you get it started. That kind of severely limits any possibilty of any actual problem with the stove other than the difficulty in starting. .
I can recall having problems last spring when I first got mine and from what I gather it is an inherent problem with a lot of manual start pellet stoves . Each perplexed user will eventually choose a method that works best for hm.
One highly recommended way was to use a propane torch . Some people swear by it but that method was a complete bummer for me. The gel gave me some problems too. I soon discovered that mixing a cup of pellets with charcoal fluid is the most reliable method for me. Others have their ways.
My point is that you are not alone and you might need to get adventurous and try other methods.
BTW, you aren`t stuffing the pellets way to the back of the burnpot are you?
 
After lighting the gel in the burn pot, leave the door open about 3 inches for about 5 minutes. This method allows the pellets to start to burn before the combustion air blows out the flame. This is the way I have been lighting my P38 for the last 9 years and it works every time. Hope this helps you out.
 
Gio said:
Ok, you say that the stove runs well at all settings once you get it started. That kind of severely limits any possibilty of any actual problem with the stove other than the difficulty in starting. .
I can recall having problems last spring when I first got mine and from what I gather it is an inherent problem with a lot of manual start pellet stoves . Each perplexed user will eventually choose a method that works best for hm.
One highly recommended way was to use a propane torch . Some people swear by it but that method was a complete bummer for me. The gel gave me some problems too. I soon discovered that mixing a cup of pellets with charcoal fluid is the most reliable method for me. Others have their ways.
My point is that you are not alone and you might need to get adventurous and try other methods.
BTW, you aren`t stuffing the pellets way to the back of the burnpot are you?
Click to expand...

I've tried the gel and stuffing pieces of the wax permeated sawdust so far. I've followed the manual's guidelines for lighting it, and have zero issues lighting my P61. I put pellets in the burnpot about an inch or so from the lip, cover with gel and light.
 
HarmanP382000 said:
After lighting the gel in the burn pot, leave the door open about 3 inches for about 5 minutes. This method allows the pellets to start to burn before the combustion air blows out the flame. This is the way I have been lighting my P38 for the last 9 years and it works every time. Hope this helps you out.
Click to expand...

I've tried leaving the door open for as long as 15 minutes before turning the stove on, but it's always a PIA to start. The fastes I've been able tolight it is 20 minutes and that was just a fluke. This leads me to believe that there is an issue with the draft potentiometer. The combustion fan shouldn't put the fire out, but should assist it in taking off. At least that what I would think it should do.
 
Leave the door open with the stove on, when you see some of the pellets starting to glow(usually 5 min or so) shut the door and it should take right off. I had the same problem as you when I bought the stove back in 2000. If I light the gel and close the door right away it will go out.
 
hmmmm, never had a prob with mine , 2 seasons now. i put about a cup of pellets in a small container, add the gel and mix them together good so as to coat all the pellets. then i pour them into the burn pot and light and close the door(on the lowest feed set of course). and i burned maine woods pellets all winter. not the best, but they are what i could afford, they are close by, and i got good heat.

mike
 
I bought a small propane torch with the ignighter. Turn my P61 on and hit the pellets with that for say, 2 minutes, close the door, and it works fine every time
 
Rick,
If all other suggestions do not satisfy , give mine a try. I timed mine this morning and it took exactly 2 minutes and 50 seconds to warm the heat exchanger enough for my distribution fan to turn on automatically after lighting the pellets and closing the door. You have nothing to lose.
Smokeless, oderless charcoal lighter fluid is only $3.50 a quart and doesn`t flare up or go *poof* when lighting. You actually have to hold the match to it before it catches. But when it catches the flame spreads kinda quickly and I then close the door at that point . Immediately I get tall bright flames reaching to the heat exchanger and I have heat blowing out the tubes in under 3 minutes.
OK, here`s exactly what I do. First I put 1/3 cup dry pellets in the burn pot. Next I mix a cup of pellets in a plastic 1 lb margarine tub with enough charcoal lighter fluid (approx 2 oz ) to wet the pellets completely and end up with a little extra fluid visible when tipping the bowl.(maybe a teaspoonful)
Surprisingly the pellets do not absorb much fluid even if left there soaking for 10 minutes . Dump this into the burnpot right away .No need to rush this process either. Any extra fluid in the bowl not absorbed will be contained by the 1/2 cup dry pellets already placed in the pot so there will be no dripping.
Light up and let the flames spread , and close the door. Nothing scary or explosive will happen during the manual lighting process.
If this doesn`t work you should probably have a Harman pro technician look at it.
 
Gio said:
Rick,
If all other suggestions do not satisfy , give mine a try. I timed mine this morning and it took exactly 2 minutes and 50 seconds to warm the heat exchanger enough for my distribution fan to turn on automatically after lighting the pellets and closing the door. You have nothing to lose.
Smokeless, oderless charcoal lighter fluid is only $3.50 a quart and doesn`t flare up or go *poof* when lighting. You actually have to hold the match to it before it catches. But when it catches the flame spreads kinda quickly and I then close the door at that point . Immediately I get tall bright flames reaching to the heat exchanger and I have heat blowing out the tubes in under 3 minutes.
OK, here`s exactly what I do. First I put 1/3 cup dry pellets in the burn pot. Next I mix a cup of pellets in a plastic 1 lb margarine tub with enough charcoal lighter fluid (approx 2 oz ) to wet the pellets completely and end up with a little extra fluid visible when tipping the bowl.(maybe a teaspoonful)
Surprisingly the pellets do not absorb much fluid even if left there soaking for 10 minutes . Dump this into the burnpot right away .No need to rush this process either. Any extra fluid in the bowl not absorbed will be contained by the 1/2 cup dry pellets already placed in the pot so there will be no dripping.
Light up and let the flames spread , and close the door. Nothing scary or explosive will happen during the manual lighting process.
If this doesn`t work you should probably have a Harman pro technician look at it.
Click to expand...

I'll give it a shot over the weekend. I really hope this works or the stove is going.
 
My p38 didnt like getting started either...
get took 2 applications within the first couple of minutes..then it would go..
torch didnt work for me at all..
I buy 91% ipa and use that ...but charcoal starter is probably cheaper still..
and I may get that next time..but I take
an 8 ouch solo plastic glass and dump half in the burn pot...and I
soak the other half with the alcohol....for at least 30 seconds...
then I dump them in the burn pot and light them...shut the door
set feed rate for where I want it ..and I walk away.
 
Started our Accentra one time with Avon hand sanitizer. Got it started, but wasn't easy. I find it interesting that you guys are using IPA and charcoal lighter fluid. For some reason, I thought using those were not approved. Are those two fluids safe to use in a pellet stove? I am asking because I don't know.
 
pkitfox said:
Started our Accentra one time with Avon hand sanitizer. Got it started, but wasn't easy. I find it interesting that you guys are using IPA and charcoal lighter fluid. For some reason, I thought using those were not approved. Are those two fluids safe to use in a pellet stove? I am asking because I don't know.
Click to expand...

Maybe they dont realize that there are pellet starter gels available out there? Or maybe their retailer doesnt have them? Or maybe IPA is cheaper than starter gel? I do know one thing though.....you'd better be damn sure there are no live embers in there before you dump IPA or charcoal lighter flud on those pellets! Most gels now are less explosive.
 
pkitfox said:
Started our Accentra one time with Avon hand sanitizer. Got it started, but wasn't easy. I find it interesting that you guys are using IPA and charcoal lighter fluid. For some reason, I thought using those were not approved. Are those two fluids safe to use in a pellet stove? I am asking because I don't know.
Click to expand...

I believe the reason pellet stove makers do not recommend any liquid fire stater/accelerant is because most commonly used available ones are in fact explosive by nature and all of them can be dangerous when improperly used. Recommending a particular liquid fire starter/accelerant would open the door for the (why not this one?) reasoning. Their decision to warn against them collectively reduces their liability.

Gelled alcohol when used as per stove directions might be a good compromise if it works for you . However no fire starters of any kind are 100% safe if care is not taken.
Personally, I find the charcoal fluid to be better suited to lighting a pellet stove than gelled alcohol since it`s ignition point is considerably higher and does not ignite with a small explosion (poof), and it`s flame last significantly longer , not to mention a much lower cost.
 
Lousyweather said:
pkitfox said:
Started our Accentra one time with Avon hand sanitizer. Got it started, but wasn't easy. I find it interesting that you guys are using IPA and charcoal lighter fluid. For some reason, I thought using those were not approved. Are those two fluids safe to use in a pellet stove? I am asking because I don't know.
Click to expand...

Maybe they dont realize that there are pellet starter gels available out there? Or maybe their retailer doesnt have them? Or maybe IPA is cheaper than starter gel? I do know one thing though.....you'd better be damn sure there are no live embers in there before you dump IPA or charcoal lighter flud on those pellets! Most gels now are less explosive.
Click to expand...

And you had better not think about adding gel to a hot burnpot either! I would have to believe the majority of users well know that gelled alcohol is the stove makers preferred fire starter but the problem is at $8+ a pint (in many shops) it doesn`t go far if you use your stove intermittently, spring/fall .

However, you do bring up a good point above , one that I failed to mention. Yes , it`s dangerous to apply or add a fire starter liquid/gel of any kind to anything but a cold burnpot load of pellets for obvious reasons.
 
Gio said:
Lousyweather said:
pkitfox said:
Started our Accentra one time with Avon hand sanitizer. Got it started, but wasn't easy. I find it interesting that you guys are using IPA and charcoal lighter fluid. For some reason, I thought using those were not approved. Are those two fluids safe to use in a pellet stove? I am asking because I don't know.
Click to expand...

Maybe they dont realize that there are pellet starter gels available out there? Or maybe their retailer doesnt have them? Or maybe IPA is cheaper than starter gel? I do know one thing though.....you'd better be damn sure there are no live embers in there before you dump IPA or charcoal lighter flud on those pellets! Most gels now are less explosive.
Click to expand...

And you had better not think about adding gel to a hot burnpot either! I would have to believe the majority of users well know that gelled alcohol is the stove makers preferred fire starter but the problem is at $8+ a pint (in many shops) it doesn`t go far if you use your stove intermittently, spring/fall .

However, you do bring up a good point above , one that I failed to mention. Yes , it`s dangerous to apply or add a fire starter liquid/gel of any kind to anything but a cold burnpot load of pellets for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Most of, if not all, of the gels sold these days are nowhere near as explosive as straight IPA....
 
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