Saving cash by burning wood
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My company uses CCF not Therm, but they are very similar
1 CCF X 1.0250= 1 Therm
WHen I figure my biggest gas bill for Jan-FEB, I used 273 CCF and the bill was $471. Ouch, I know.
I can't believe your paying .64 a therm, are you forgetting the delivery charge. If so, you saved more than $289
1 CCF X 1.0250= 1 Therm
WHen I figure my biggest gas bill for Jan-FEB, I used 273 CCF and the bill was $471. Ouch, I know.
I can't believe your paying .64 a therm, are you forgetting the delivery charge. If so, you saved more than $289
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
I had the oil tank filled in maybe Sept or oct, then again late feb and still have 1/2 a tank left. Our DHW is oil, though, so it has to run here. Save thousands a year burning.
Now in the kiln, I burn about 2 cord at a whack, 4 times a year. Not sure how much oil/gas that equates to... it's not a direct conversion as gas/oil is more efficient for that. couple hunnert bucks at a time.
Now in the kiln, I burn about 2 cord at a whack, 4 times a year. Not sure how much oil/gas that equates to... it's not a direct conversion as gas/oil is more efficient for that. couple hunnert bucks at a time.
Backroads
Feeling the Heat
2007
Bought 2 Cord @ $100
Bought 1 Cord @ $175
Used 400 Gallons of oil @ $2/Gal (Guestimate)
Total = $1175
2008
Bought 0 Cords of wood!! Just scrounging!
Used 70 Gallons of oil @ $2/Gal (Guestimate)
Total $140 ***
Savings over 2007= $1035
*** I did invest in a newer stove so that was how I was able to save so much oil this year***
New Jotul Oslo $1900
New Chainsaw $415
Total Wood Investment $2315
At this rate I'll brake even with in 1 more year!
Bought 2 Cord @ $100
Bought 1 Cord @ $175
Used 400 Gallons of oil @ $2/Gal (Guestimate)
Total = $1175
2008
Bought 0 Cords of wood!! Just scrounging!
Used 70 Gallons of oil @ $2/Gal (Guestimate)
Total $140 ***
Savings over 2007= $1035
*** I did invest in a newer stove so that was how I was able to save so much oil this year***
New Jotul Oslo $1900
New Chainsaw $415
Total Wood Investment $2315
At this rate I'll brake even with in 1 more year!
Our heating cost here in S.W. Missouri was $300 - $350 last winter, and that is in an all-electric house with 2500 sq. ft. or so finished and another 2000 sq. ft. unfinished in the basement. Electricity was about $.085 per kwh. I built the house, I insulated it heavily, and I selected a high efficiency heat pump. So I was not expecting miracles in cost savings from my new Jotul Oslo. In fact, what with one thing and another it will take 10 years to break even at that rate, and then only because I have 50 acres of trees.
So why bother? Well, it was about 70 degrees here today so the fire is out. The thermometer shows it to be 68 here in the house, and my wife is wearing a sweatshirt and covered with an afghan. With the stove I can keep the house at 70 deg., and the family room at 74 or so - very cosy. We do a lot of things for our comfort that doesn't save any money; wood heat has at least the advantage of not costing any extra. And when Congress gets through doing for energy what they have done for the automobile companies, I'll be ready.
Mark
So why bother? Well, it was about 70 degrees here today so the fire is out. The thermometer shows it to be 68 here in the house, and my wife is wearing a sweatshirt and covered with an afghan. With the stove I can keep the house at 70 deg., and the family room at 74 or so - very cosy. We do a lot of things for our comfort that doesn't save any money; wood heat has at least the advantage of not costing any extra. And when Congress gets through doing for energy what they have done for the automobile companies, I'll be ready.
Mark
DBoon
Minister of Fire
I think if you look at your natural gas bill, you may find that there is a "distribution" charge in addition to the "supply" charge on this bill. When the Feds de-regulated the utilities a few years back, all they did was create a lot of confusion by splitting the "supply" and "distribution" of electricity and gas. You may find that your total cost is about twice the supply charges listed on that PDF.
In any case, this only makes the math better. The right decision was to buy the stove. The more that we reduce our usage of oil and natural gas, the more prices will moderate in the long run. For the first time in my lifetime, gasoline consumption went down - by a huge amount - and the prices with it so fast that the Arabs are scrambling to keep it from dropping further. As people heat with wood instead of oil or gas, the demand will drop for these fuels and their prices will go down - keeping gasoline, oil, and natural gas prices reasonable.
So, the way I look at it, it wasn't about a payoff, but about 1) security in knowing that whatever happens, I can heat my home comfortably for a stable and reasonable amount of money and 2) I did my part to keep oil and gas prices lower than they otherwise would be.
In any case, this only makes the math better. The right decision was to buy the stove. The more that we reduce our usage of oil and natural gas, the more prices will moderate in the long run. For the first time in my lifetime, gasoline consumption went down - by a huge amount - and the prices with it so fast that the Arabs are scrambling to keep it from dropping further. As people heat with wood instead of oil or gas, the demand will drop for these fuels and their prices will go down - keeping gasoline, oil, and natural gas prices reasonable.
So, the way I look at it, it wasn't about a payoff, but about 1) security in knowing that whatever happens, I can heat my home comfortably for a stable and reasonable amount of money and 2) I did my part to keep oil and gas prices lower than they otherwise would be.
I don't think this is your total cost. Looking at their website, it appears there's a lot more to it... http://www.nicor.com/en_us/commercial/gas_rates_and_costs/show.cgi?rate=rate1stockdoct said:
The simple way for you to calculate your true cost is to take your monthly bill amount and divide it by the number of CCF you used during that period. This will give you your actual cost per CCF/Therm.
Here's the detailed answer:
Nicor separates the monthly bill into Natural Gas Cost and Delivery Charge Cost. Then the Delivery Charge Cost is divided into a monthly customer charge ($9), Delivery per Therm Used (14cents per therm for the first 20 therms, then 5cents/therm for any additional (roughly $9 a month) and minimal charge for "Environmental Cost Recovery" and "Franchise Cost Adjustment" which are not Usage-based and together total about $1 a month. Then there's taxes on the total bill of 3% to state and Utility Fund
So ..... if I use Natural Gas exclusively and use 150 therms in one month, my detailed bill is
$101.40 for Natural Gas Cost @ .65 / therm
$9 for monthly customer charge
$9.30 Delivery for 150 therms
$1 ECR/FCA
$ 3.62 taxes
________________ Total bill $124.32
Now, if I burn wood, lowering my natural gas usage by half to only 75 Therms, my bill would be:
$ 50.70 for Natural Gas Cost
$ 9 monthly service fee
$ 5.55 Delivery of 75 therms
$ 1 ECR/FCA
$ 1.98 taxes
Monthly gas bill with wood burning $68.23
For a 50% decline in gas usage, my bill drops by 45%. I guess in looking at the total, including ALL sections of the bill that relate to therm usage (natural gas cost (.65), delivery @ .05/therm, and taxes (3%) ...... the amount saved by wood burning amounts to $0.74 a therm this year.
Nicor separates the monthly bill into Natural Gas Cost and Delivery Charge Cost. Then the Delivery Charge Cost is divided into a monthly customer charge ($9), Delivery per Therm Used (14cents per therm for the first 20 therms, then 5cents/therm for any additional (roughly $9 a month) and minimal charge for "Environmental Cost Recovery" and "Franchise Cost Adjustment" which are not Usage-based and together total about $1 a month. Then there's taxes on the total bill of 3% to state and Utility Fund
So ..... if I use Natural Gas exclusively and use 150 therms in one month, my detailed bill is
$101.40 for Natural Gas Cost @ .65 / therm
$9 for monthly customer charge
$9.30 Delivery for 150 therms
$1 ECR/FCA
$ 3.62 taxes
________________ Total bill $124.32
Now, if I burn wood, lowering my natural gas usage by half to only 75 Therms, my bill would be:
$ 50.70 for Natural Gas Cost
$ 9 monthly service fee
$ 5.55 Delivery of 75 therms
$ 1 ECR/FCA
$ 1.98 taxes
Monthly gas bill with wood burning $68.23
For a 50% decline in gas usage, my bill drops by 45%. I guess in looking at the total, including ALL sections of the bill that relate to therm usage (natural gas cost (.65), delivery @ .05/therm, and taxes (3%) ...... the amount saved by wood burning amounts to $0.74 a therm this year.
My last bill was 163CCF, which is about 167 Therms
Total gas bill with taxes and delivery charges was $299.50
I have to start burning some wood.
Total gas bill with taxes and delivery charges was $299.50
I have to start burning some wood.
jebatty
Minister of Fire
We pay about $100-200/yr for backup electric heat when we happen to be gone; otherwise burn wood exclusively to heat 1500 sq ft plus full basment. Been doing this for 19 years. Total savings likely are $30,000 +++. Wood comes from our own land, and the cost savings easily has paid several times over for the land. Coldest this winter was -36F (real temp, not windchill).
RedRanger
New Member
BrotherBart said:
Don`t be looking to me to pay for yours!!
Crap--with my declining loonie it would likely cost me at least 20 grand to bury you.
Of course you aren`t leaving anytime soon I hope BB..?? The other Mods can`t even begin to compare with those famous one-liners of yours. ;-P
Whatever we save is "after tax" money.
To pocket $300 we need to put at least $400 on the W2.
The $300 you pay to to the gas company or fuel oil dealer is $400 you have to earn.
To pocket $300 we need to put at least $400 on the W2.
The $300 you pay to to the gas company or fuel oil dealer is $400 you have to earn.
Jack Straw
Minister of Fire
Zzyk
Member
I still can't believe you guys only pay ~ $0.74 per therm!?!?!?! That's the equivalent to $1.03 per gal for oil. I fail to see how prices can be so different from one area to another. If I were to burn 50 CCF/therms (in CT) my monthly NG bill would be $118 total, or $2.36 per CCF/therm, which is the equivalent to $3.28 per gal for oil. Now I'm remembering why I don't use any NG...
BeGreen said:
Are you kidding BG? This is the land of Chicago taxes, whether you live at the other end of the state or not.
I don't have NG where I live, but wish to heck I did. It would cost many-o-thousands to get it piped to my house, and there have been some years that Propane was cheaper than NG....Go figure. It just so happens that the last couple of years, NG was the bargain.
Stove, Install, Saw, included with property.
November-March 2007-2008:
November 2007: burned 210 gallons at $3.39 = $711.50 and never looked back!
signed up, www.Hearth.com = $0
Had 1, bought 2 cords @ $200 = $400
5 gallons diesel fuel @ $15/week for DHW = $780
Total energy cost 2007-2008 = $1902 (not counting electric space heating)
November - March 2008-2009: 3 cords @ $200 = $600
5 gallons diesel fuel @ $13/week for DHW = $676
Total energy cost 2008-2009 = $1276
Prospective estimate 2009-2010:
250 gallons @ $2.40(estimate) for DHW = $600
1 cord @ $200 = $200
Total estimated energy cost 2009-2010 = $800
November-March 2007-2008:
November 2007: burned 210 gallons at $3.39 = $711.50 and never looked back!
signed up, www.Hearth.com = $0
Had 1, bought 2 cords @ $200 = $400
5 gallons diesel fuel @ $15/week for DHW = $780
Total energy cost 2007-2008 = $1902 (not counting electric space heating)
November - March 2008-2009: 3 cords @ $200 = $600
5 gallons diesel fuel @ $13/week for DHW = $676
Total energy cost 2008-2009 = $1276
Prospective estimate 2009-2010:
250 gallons @ $2.40(estimate) for DHW = $600
1 cord @ $200 = $200
Total estimated energy cost 2009-2010 = $800
My situation is a little different than most I think. I installed geothermal in my house so I've already got a really efficient heat system. My problem was in order to size my unit properly for summertime I had to basically undersize it for winter. So my woodstove is used to "help" the geothermal during the very coldest of months (dec-feb). Essentially though it all goes back to dollars. If I let my geothermal heat my house by itself this winter it would've had to run the electric back-up strips which costs a ton of money. So I look at is as I'm kinda breaking even on cost, but I have this pretty stove in my living room that my fiance loves. Also, I get to play with fire.
Slow1
Minister of Fire
Ahhh so the story perhaps goes like this (Fill in with your own values for first two lines, the punchline will remain the same?):
Wood for stove: $1000
Saved on Oil: $500-750
Getting to play with fire in the house all winter: Priceless
Wood for stove: $1000
Saved on Oil: $500-750
Getting to play with fire in the house all winter: Priceless
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